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Author Topic:   Why are all Christians atheists?
Nuggin
Member (Idle past 2493 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 1 of 161 (394661)
04-12-2007 5:29 PM


Running out of room / time on the "Don't fear the atheist thread" so I figured I'd split off some of the debate to a new topic.
All Fundamental Christians are Atheists in regards to Zeus, Apollo, Thor, Vishnu, Coyote, the Hero Twins, and many many more Gods.
What gives?
Surely, the people who were worshipping these Gods believed in them as much if not more than the typical Fundamentalist believes in their God.
And, just as likely, they looked down upon the previous Gods. "Oh, yeah, people used to worship Iknock, but that was before we realized that Zeus is the one true God."
So, what's the deal, Fundies? I've heard over and over how you can discard a mountain of evidence in favor or your particular flavor of magic, but how can you also discard a mountain of magic in favor of magic.
What reason do you have to believe that people with as much, if not more, spiritual evidence in the existence of their Gods are some how wrong?
Edited by Nuggin, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
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AdminPD
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Message 2 of 161 (394662)
04-12-2007 5:31 PM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 3 of 161 (394675)
04-12-2007 6:12 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Nuggin
04-12-2007 5:29 PM


is the topic the one in the title
What question are you asking. The statement in the title is totally different than what is in the body of your OP.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 4 of 161 (394677)
04-12-2007 6:16 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Nuggin
04-12-2007 5:29 PM


Whats The Deal?
nuggin writes:
So, what's the deal, Fundies? I've heard over and over how you can discard a mountain of evidence in favor or your particular flavor of magic, but how can you also discard a mountain of magic in favor of magic.
Two presuppositions which I disagree with.
  • All belief in god(s) is magic.
  • God is a construct of the human mind only and is not our Creator.

  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 1 by Nuggin, posted 04-12-2007 5:29 PM Nuggin has replied

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    AdminPD
    Inactive Administrator


    Message 5 of 161 (394679)
    04-12-2007 6:26 PM
    Reply to: Message 1 by Nuggin
    04-12-2007 5:29 PM


    Title
    You might want to change the title to reflect the contents of your OP and point of your thread.
    I forgot to mention that in the PNT.
    If you are unable to change it let me know what you want and I'll change it.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 1 by Nuggin, posted 04-12-2007 5:29 PM Nuggin has not replied

      
    mike the wiz
    Member
    Posts: 4752
    From: u.k
    Joined: 05-24-2003


    Message 6 of 161 (394681)
    04-12-2007 6:35 PM
    Reply to: Message 1 by Nuggin
    04-12-2007 5:29 PM


    Phaticus burnicus!
    I've just had a thought.
    If all atheists burn in hell, and all Christians are atheist, then all Christians burn in hell.
    - I'm wearing my Bart Simpson trunks for the lake of fire. What are you going as?

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 1 by Nuggin, posted 04-12-2007 5:29 PM Nuggin has not replied

      
    nator
    Member (Idle past 2170 days)
    Posts: 12961
    From: Ann Arbor
    Joined: 12-09-2001


    Message 7 of 161 (394682)
    04-12-2007 6:35 PM
    Reply to: Message 4 by Phat
    04-12-2007 6:16 PM


    Re: Whats The Deal?
    quote:
    All belief in god(s) is magic.
    What else is it other than "magic", Phat?
    In other words, can you explain how is it not magic?
    quote:
    God is a construct of the human mind only and is not our Creator.
    Why do you disagree?
    Upon what basis?

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    mike the wiz
    Member
    Posts: 4752
    From: u.k
    Joined: 05-24-2003


    Message 8 of 161 (394684)
    04-12-2007 6:39 PM
    Reply to: Message 7 by nator
    04-12-2007 6:35 PM


    Re: Whats The Deal?
    What else is it other than "magic", Phat?
    Transcendant reality.
    Why do you disagree?
    Because it's not evident that God is made-up. That might not be the case. It's just an opinion.

    This message is a reply to:
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    tudwell
    Member (Idle past 5979 days)
    Posts: 172
    From: KCMO
    Joined: 08-20-2006


    Message 9 of 161 (394685)
    04-12-2007 6:39 PM
    Reply to: Message 1 by Nuggin
    04-12-2007 5:29 PM


    Nuggin writes:
    And, just as likely, they looked down upon the previous Gods. "Oh, yeah, people used to worship Iknock, but that was before we realized that Zeus is the one true God."
    Actually, it's not just as likely. Many polythestic religions accepted the existence of all gods, but worshipped their own pantheon which they regarded as more powerful or more important.
    I've never bought the argument that Christians (and people of other religions) are atheist to all gods but their own, whereas the atheist just "goes one further" as Dawkins says. Believing in God (any god) is fundamentally different than atheism. The theist, no matter what religion, accepts the supernatural on some level, where the atheist does not. Even people like jar, who are Christians yet almost invariably side with atheists on most issues, accept the supernatural at some level, even if they maintain a high degree of scepticism regarding most claims of the supernatural.

    This message is a reply to:
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    ringo
    Member (Idle past 412 days)
    Posts: 20940
    From: frozen wasteland
    Joined: 03-23-2005


    Message 10 of 161 (394687)
    04-12-2007 6:53 PM
    Reply to: Message 1 by Nuggin
    04-12-2007 5:29 PM


    Nuggin writes:
    All Fundamental Christians are Atheists in regards to Zeus, Apollo, Thor, Vishnu, Coyote, the Hero Twins, and many many more Gods.
    The logic goes something like this:

    Is there a God?
    /\
    / \
    / \
    No Yes
    |
    |
    |
    What does He look like?

    You seem to be incorrectly conflating "No" with "What does He look like?"

    Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
    Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

    This message is a reply to:
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    Neutralmind
    Member (Idle past 6124 days)
    Posts: 183
    From: Finland
    Joined: 06-08-2006


    Message 11 of 161 (394688)
    04-12-2007 6:56 PM
    Reply to: Message 1 by Nuggin
    04-12-2007 5:29 PM


    So, what's the deal, Fundies? I've heard over and over how you can discard a mountain of evidence in favor or your particular flavor of magic, but how can you also discard a mountain of magic in favor of magic.
    Let's turn the question around.
    How you can discard a mountain of evidence in favor or your particular flavor of non-magic, but how can you also discard a mountain of non-magic in favor of non-magic
    Let's assume now that the non-magic is all natural things.
    How can you choose one of many theories of evolution or say, some cosmological theories over another? It's simple. You feel the one you chose answers your questions better than the other.
    People choose theories over another because they think there is better evidence for it than the other ( assuming they're intellectually honest ). Why should it be different for "magic" ?
    Edited by Neutralmind, : No reason given.

    This message is a reply to:
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    nator
    Member (Idle past 2170 days)
    Posts: 12961
    From: Ann Arbor
    Joined: 12-09-2001


    Message 12 of 161 (394703)
    04-12-2007 7:59 PM
    Reply to: Message 8 by mike the wiz
    04-12-2007 6:39 PM


    Re: Whats The Deal?
    quote:
    Transcendant reality.
    What's that?
    quote:
    Because it's not evident that God is made-up. That might not be the case. It's just an opinion.
    Do you mean that it is only an opinion that any superstition is made up, or just the one you subscribe to?

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 8 by mike the wiz, posted 04-12-2007 6:39 PM mike the wiz has replied

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    jar
    Member (Idle past 394 days)
    Posts: 34026
    From: Texas!!
    Joined: 04-20-2004


    Message 13 of 161 (394714)
    04-12-2007 8:39 PM
    Reply to: Message 1 by Nuggin
    04-12-2007 5:29 PM


    a few things to consider
    If GOD exists, then She exists regardless of any evidence that He does not exist.
    If GOD does not exist then It does not exist regardless of any evidence She does exist.
    If GOD exists, the Reality of GOD is as it is regardless of the Gods of any religion.
    The Christian God, like the Norse Gods or the Greek Gods or the Judaic God or the Muslim God or the Hindu God(s) or the Egyptian Gods or all Gods ever known, are constructs of humans, not the reality "GOD"; Maps not the Territory. They are human attempts to describe that which is beyond description, attempts to understand that which is beyond understanding.

    Aslan is not a Tame Lion

    This message is a reply to:
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    Nuggin
    Member (Idle past 2493 days)
    Posts: 2965
    From: Los Angeles, CA USA
    Joined: 08-09-2005


    Message 14 of 161 (394719)
    04-12-2007 9:02 PM
    Reply to: Message 4 by Phat
    04-12-2007 6:16 PM


    Re: Whats The Deal?
    Two presuppositions which I disagree with.
    All belief in god(s) is magic.
    God is a construct of the human mind only and is not our Creator.
    I'm not saying that the belief in God is magic. The belief is an act of will. I am saying that the belief in God is a belief in magic.
    In other words belief does not equal magic. God does equal magic.
    As for the other sentence...
    Okay, God is not a construct of the Human mind, and is in fact our Creator. Which God? Zeus? Coyote? You didn't specify

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    Nuggin
    Member (Idle past 2493 days)
    Posts: 2965
    From: Los Angeles, CA USA
    Joined: 08-09-2005


    Message 15 of 161 (394720)
    04-12-2007 9:08 PM
    Reply to: Message 9 by tudwell
    04-12-2007 6:39 PM


    So you think that you could get a fundamentalist to acknowledge that there is some truth to the idea that Thor is a powerful diety and that their God is not the only "one true God"?
    Good luck!

    This message is a reply to:
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