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Author Topic:   How do they know?
Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.4


Message 1 of 35 (123892)
07-12-2004 6:22 AM


I've heard a couple of times lately that the driest place on earth is part of antarctica where it has not rained in two million years. I'm at a loss though: how on earth can they know this?

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by arachnophilia, posted 07-12-2004 7:38 AM Dr Jack has replied
 Message 6 by Dr Jack, posted 07-13-2004 6:19 AM Dr Jack has not replied

arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1365 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 2 of 35 (123898)
07-12-2004 7:38 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Dr Jack
07-12-2004 6:22 AM


ice core samples.
dry is kind of misleading. there's lots of water there -- it's just solid. technically it's a desert, just one made of h2o.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Dr Jack, posted 07-12-2004 6:22 AM Dr Jack has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Dr Jack, posted 07-12-2004 7:44 AM arachnophilia has replied

Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.4


Message 3 of 35 (123899)
07-12-2004 7:44 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by arachnophilia
07-12-2004 7:38 AM


I don't think so. This says that the 'Dry Valleys' contain no moisture at all - including ice or snow. Which matches with what I've heard before. If there's no ice there then there can't be any ice cores either.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by arachnophilia, posted 07-12-2004 7:38 AM arachnophilia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by arachnophilia, posted 07-12-2004 8:05 AM Dr Jack has not replied
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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1365 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 4 of 35 (123901)
07-12-2004 8:05 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Dr Jack
07-12-2004 7:44 AM


oh, well, i don't know then.

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1426 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 5 of 35 (123911)
07-12-2004 9:59 AM


calculation
I would guess that it would be a calculation based on current rate of drying (100 mph Katabatic down winds) and the amount of moisture found in certain rocks and the time it would take to depress it to that extent.
Of course it is just a guess: mathematical models are not reality.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by One_Charred_Wing, posted 07-15-2004 9:46 PM RAZD has replied

Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.4


Message 6 of 35 (124197)
07-13-2004 6:19 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Dr Jack
07-12-2004 6:22 AM


*Bump* in the hope that one of our geologist friends can sate my curiosity...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Dr Jack, posted 07-12-2004 6:22 AM Dr Jack has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by arachnophilia, posted 07-13-2004 6:23 AM Dr Jack has replied

arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1365 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 7 of 35 (124199)
07-13-2004 6:23 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Dr Jack
07-13-2004 6:19 AM


tell you what, i have earth science class later tonight, i'll ask my prof the question.
i can't guarantee an answer of course, as he's an astrophysicist who got stuck teaching the class and not a geologist, and i tend to know more on the subject than he does, but you never know.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Dr Jack, posted 07-13-2004 6:19 AM Dr Jack has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by Dr Jack, posted 07-13-2004 9:05 AM arachnophilia has replied

Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.4


Message 8 of 35 (124209)
07-13-2004 9:05 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by arachnophilia
07-13-2004 6:23 AM


Cheers!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by arachnophilia, posted 07-13-2004 6:23 AM arachnophilia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by arachnophilia, posted 07-13-2004 10:35 PM Dr Jack has replied

arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1365 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 9 of 35 (124313)
07-13-2004 10:35 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Dr Jack
07-13-2004 9:05 AM


the best answer we could come with was lack of rock formations that use water as a catalyst in formation, lack of permafrost, lack or evidence of chemical reactions to water, etc.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Dr Jack, posted 07-13-2004 9:05 AM Dr Jack has replied

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Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 10 of 35 (124507)
07-14-2004 3:09 PM


My guess was going to be that there is no precipitation observed now, and that current climate models suggest that this has been the climate for the past so many million years.

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by Dr Jack, posted 07-15-2004 9:29 AM Chiroptera has not replied

Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.4


Message 11 of 35 (124685)
07-15-2004 9:28 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by arachnophilia
07-13-2004 10:35 PM


See that's what I thought. What I can't figure out is how they could tell 'hasn't rained in two million years' from 'rained once, or thrice, in two million years'.
Thanks for asking, anyway.
This message has been edited by Mr Jack, 07-15-2004 08:28 AM

This message is a reply to:
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Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.4


Message 12 of 35 (124686)
07-15-2004 9:29 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by Chiroptera
07-14-2004 3:09 PM


Dude - they can't even predict the weather accurately five days in advance, how could we trust a two million year model?

This message is a reply to:
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One_Charred_Wing
Member (Idle past 6177 days)
Posts: 690
From: USA West Coast
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 13 of 35 (124834)
07-15-2004 9:46 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by RAZD
07-12-2004 9:59 AM


Re: calculation
Of course it is just a guess: mathematical models are not reality.
Thank you! At least somebody will admit that math is not the ABSOLUTE TRUTHTELLER! Now if only I could've convinced my algebra teacher of just that then maybe I wouldn't be taking the class again...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by RAZD, posted 07-12-2004 9:59 AM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by coffee_addict, posted 07-16-2004 1:51 AM One_Charred_Wing has replied
 Message 17 by arachnophilia, posted 07-16-2004 5:42 AM One_Charred_Wing has not replied
 Message 34 by RAZD, posted 08-05-2004 12:41 PM One_Charred_Wing has not replied

coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 498 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 14 of 35 (124912)
07-16-2004 1:51 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by One_Charred_Wing
07-15-2004 9:46 PM


Re: calculation
B2P writes:
Now if only I could've convinced my algebra teacher of just that then maybe I wouldn't be taking the class again...
Did you fail the class?

The Laminator

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by One_Charred_Wing, posted 07-15-2004 9:46 PM One_Charred_Wing has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by One_Charred_Wing, posted 07-16-2004 2:58 AM coffee_addict has replied

One_Charred_Wing
Member (Idle past 6177 days)
Posts: 690
From: USA West Coast
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 15 of 35 (124922)
07-16-2004 2:58 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by coffee_addict
07-16-2004 1:51 AM


Re: calculation
Curious Lam writes:
Did you fail the class?
Of course, that's why I'm taking it again. I'm not exactly a star student.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by coffee_addict, posted 07-16-2004 1:51 AM coffee_addict has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by coffee_addict, posted 07-16-2004 3:10 AM One_Charred_Wing has replied

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