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Author Topic:   Evolution wins a round in Texas education debate
subbie
Member (Idle past 1277 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 1 of 8 (495698)
01-23-2009 11:48 PM


Scientific American reports:
The Texas Board of Education has tentatively adopted new teaching standards that would make it more difficult to teach creationism in Lone Star state schools.
Board members voted eight-to-seven last night to drop controversial language in the state's curriculum that requires science teachers to discuss the “strengths and weaknesses” of scientific theories.
Follow the link for full story.

For we know that our patchwork heritage is a strength, not a weakness. We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and non-believers. -- Barack Obama
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

Replies to this message:
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Taz
Member (Idle past 3314 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 2 of 8 (495708)
01-24-2009 2:06 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by subbie
01-23-2009 11:48 PM


Personally, I'm surprised this is even an issue at all nowadays. Do people honestly want to teach their kids the goddunit doctrine that answers everything and nothing?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by subbie, posted 01-23-2009 11:48 PM subbie has not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1427 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 3 of 8 (495753)
01-24-2009 6:52 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by subbie
01-23-2009 11:48 PM


An important distinction
Hey Subbie,
I was a little disturbed by the opening you quoted,
Board members voted eight-to-seven last night to drop controversial language in the state's curriculum that requires science teachers to discuss the “strengths and weaknesses” of scientific theories.
As I agree with Ken Miller, that there should be no problem with teaching the strength and weakness of any scientific theory, or with comparing the ability of different theories to explain all the evidence. It is part of the scientific method to question theory.
One of the weakness of all theories is that they are tentative approximations, and the less we know about a subject to more tentative they are.
One of the strengths of all theories is that as they are tested and compared, the approximations are refined and honed and become better and better approximations. Sometimes a new approximation comes along and explains the evidence in an entirely new way, and then we compare to see which method is a better approximation of reality.
Take the calculation of π for example.
We can use 3.14 or 22/7 (3.143) or 3.14159 to approximate the value, but no method to provide a final exact method has been determined, and what we have are a series of different methods to reach increasingly accurate approximations, discarding the old ones (or regulating them to special cases - convenient usage that provides an answer that is close enough for practical purposes - like Newton's Gravity, the value of π used to calculate rocket paths to mars is an approximation).
My calculator uses 3.14159 26535 89793 23846 26433 832795
Pi - Wikipedia
quote:
The numerical value of π truncated to 50 decimal places is:[11]
3.14159 26535 89793 23846 26433 83279 50288 41971 69399 37510

error
quote:
3.14159 2653 5897 9323 8462 6433 8327 9502 8841 9716 9399 3751 0582 0974 9445 9230 7816 4062 8620 8998 6280 3482 5342 1170 6798 2148 0865 1328 2306 6470 9384 4609 5505 8223 1725 3594 0812 8481 1174 5028 4102 7019 3852 1105 5596 4462 2948 95493 03820 ...
(spaces added for page fitting)
1 Million Digits of Pi
(one million digits of π)
And on it goes. Scientific theory is similar, when new evidence shows that an existing theory misses the mark, a better approximation is made.
Back to your link:
quote:
But the board last night nixed the 20-year-old language and replaced it with the requirement that kids "analyze and evaluate scientific explanations using empirical evidence, logical reasoning, and experimental and observational testing." The vote was a preliminary one; the final one is expected when the board meets again in late March. A public comment period is scheduled for between now and then.
This does not really remove the requirement, rather it refines the method to be used to investigate strengths and weaknesses: you must use the scientific method.
quote:
"It’s outrageous that our highest elected education officials voted to silence teachers and students in science class," said Jonathan Saenz, director of legislative affairs for the Plano nonprofit Free Market Foundation, whose objective is to "protect freedoms and strengthen families."
"This decision shows that science has evolved into a political popularity contest," Saenz said in the statement. "The truth has been expelled from the science classroom."
Except that the teachers are not "silenced" nor does it mean that "truth" has been expelled - what it means is that the strengths and weaknesses must be evaluated scientifically, and not based on politics or emotion (the creationist approach as exemplified by Mr. Saenz, kettle calling the pot black.
Yes, it's absolutely shocking that science should be taught in science class.
Enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Percy
Member
Posts: 22480
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 4 of 8 (495773)
01-24-2009 7:47 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by subbie
01-23-2009 11:48 PM


Here's a New York Times article about the same thing: Split Outcome in Texas Battle on Teaching of Evolution
From my perspective this seems like a significant blunder for proponents of evolution. On the one hand they overturn a mandate that "science teachers explore with their students the 'strengths and weaknesses' of all theories," a mandate it says has been "largely ignored" by teachers, and which doesn't even single out evolution.
But on the other, conservatives were able to add several amendments that were extremely specific to evolution, like "one that would compel science teachers to instruct students about aspects of the fossil record that do not neatly fit with the idea of species’ gradually changing over time, like the relatively sudden appearance of some species and the fact that others seem to remain unchanged for millions of years."
Although the original mandate had been largely ignored, it apparently was becoming an increasing problem "as groups questioning Darwinism have invoked the mandate in raising objections to evolution’s being taught to the exclusion of other theories." So the majority was finally able to overturn the mandate, but at the cost of amendments that single out evolution by requiring characterizations of scientific uncertainty where there is none.
Looks like a bad deal for evolution in Texas.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by subbie, posted 01-23-2009 11:48 PM subbie has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by RAZD, posted 01-24-2009 12:26 PM Percy has replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2128 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 5 of 8 (495819)
01-24-2009 12:11 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by RAZD
01-24-2009 6:52 AM


Re: An important distinction
This is what they mean by "weaknesses:"
Essential List of Scientific Weaknesses of Evolution Theories
The following weaknesses of evolution should be discussed at appropriate points in every text from the viewpoint of a skeptic as well as a proponent of current evolutionary theory.
Origin of Life Weaknesses:
  • The extreme improbability of obtaining any specific amino acid sequence needed for the proteins of life systems.
  • The high probability of breakdown by hydrolysis of amino acid chains if they were to form in the first place.
  • No known way to achieve 100% left-handed amino acids in proteins or the 100% right-handed sugars in RNA and DNA - all of which are universal to life systems.
  • All natural processes are known to produce a 50-50% mixture of left-handed and right-handed molecules.
  • Photo dissociation of water vapor has been a source of oxygen since the Earth formed, and there is substantial geologic evidence that a significant amount of oxygen existed in the atmosphere prior to the advent of photosynthesis. Oxygen breaks down amino acids and sugars that are postulated to have formed!
  • There is no known natural source of the information that is present in all life systems. Random processes are never known to produce information.
Fossil Record Weaknesses:
  • The Cambrian explosion quickly produced all of the basically different body structures, and some of these have since become extinct. This is very different from the evolutionary tree of life, which suggests a slow and gradual increase in body structures.
  • Many life forms persist through large expanses of geologic time with essentially no change. Evolution theory suggests that mutations occur randomly over time and are selected to produce continuing change as the environment continually changes.
  • Most major proposed transitional forms are problematic and controversial. Rarely does the whole organism fit into the proposed developmental path. For example, birds are often said to have transitioned from reptile- hipped dinosaurs like Velociraptor. But these have a different kind of hip structure than birds. Birds have the same kind of hip structure as the dinosaurs like stegosaurus and the horned dinosaurs.
Presently Observed Nature Weaknesses:
  • Selective breeding has produced only very limited change with no new structures occurring over thousands of years and multitudes of generations of selection. This clearly demonstrates that there are natural limits to biological change. Examples: dogs, cattle, pigeons ...
  • Induced mutations followed by selection in laboratory experiments have not produced any beneficial structural changes.
  • Most all mutations are detrimental, a few are neutral, and extremely few if any are clearly beneficial.
  • Small changes resulting from natural selection are observed, but are not observed to accumulate to produce structural changes.
  • It is extremely difficult for scientists to propose in detail how the structural or biochemical systems of life could change from a more simple form that was functional.
General practice to avoid misunderstanding:
  • When fossils are illustrated, the illustration should indicate which parts of the skeleton are actually present in the fossil material and which parts are inferred. This may be done for example by color, shading, or outline weight.
  • Fossil abundance versus geologic period diagrams should be shown for all life forms discussed in the text or presented in tree of life or cladogram interpretations. One large diagram might be presented at an early point in the discussion of fossils. Where little intact fossil material is known, fine lines or dotted lines should be used to indicate inferred or hypothesized connections or relationships.
  • If evolution is compared to the change over time of the product of any human endeavor, then the role of intelligence and purpose in that human endeavor must also be clearly recognized and discussed.
Source
Same warmed over nonsense we always see from the creationists.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1427 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 6 of 8 (495820)
01-24-2009 12:26 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Percy
01-24-2009 7:47 AM


On the other hand
Hey Percy
But on the other, conservatives were able to add several amendments that were extremely specific to evolution, like "one that would compel science teachers to instruct students about aspects of the fossil record that do not neatly fit with the idea of species’ gradually changing over time, like the relatively sudden appearance of some species and the fact that others seem to remain unchanged for millions of years."
I still go with Ken Miller on this.
This is a teaching moment, and it gives the teacher an opportunity cite Darwin on his discussion of the fossil record, his explanation for gaps, expand it to a discussion of Punctuated Equilibrium, whether these instances are indeed "sudden" or due to faulty record keeping in the fossil record, and then look at whether these two PRATTs do or do not fit with the theory of evolution. Then they can explain fitness in terms of ecology, such that if ecology is not changing that there is no selection pressure to change, rather there is selection to maintain an average phenotype, but if the ecology changes that there will be selection to change to match.
... "as groups questioning Darwinism have invoked the mandate in raising objections to evolution’s being taught to the exclusion of other theories." So the majority was finally able to overturn the mandate, but at the cost of amendments that single out evolution by requiring characterizations of scientific uncertainty where there is none.
Then where is the problem with teaching the uncertainty - aka scientific tentativity? What does skeptic mean and what is the difference between an open minded skeptic and one who has already decided a conclusion but pretends skepticism of (only) contradictory evidence.
Talk about the assumptions of science, that the evidence is reflective of a true reality, and that properly understanding the evidence means understanding reality. That we can assume the evidence is true or we can assume the evidence is false. Does a scientific theory assume the evidence is false? Does it assume the evidence is true? Or does it test the evidence to see if it is true or false.
Trot out the other theories:
http://library.thinkquest.org/C004367/eh1.shtml
quote:
While the Greeks did not specifically refer to their concepts as "evolution", they did have a philosophical notion of descent with modification. Several different Greek philosophers subscribed to a concept of origination, arguing that all things originated from water or air. Another common concept was the idea that all things descended from one central, guiding principle. Aristotle suggests a transition between the living and the nonliving, and theorizes that in all things there is a constant desire to move from the lower to the higher, finally becoming the divine. (See Evolution from The Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy.)
This greek theory after all is where the concept of "Spontaneous Generation" came from. Now you can teach the fundamental difference between abiogenesis and evolution and show how evolution does not require a single population of original ancestors, but can start with any number of original ancestor populations.
This is also where the concept of an "evolutionary ladder" came from, so it is an opportunity to discuss that concept.
quote:
During medieval times, the idea of evolution was quite out of fashion, since the time was dominated by the Christian theory of special creation. This idea, which argued that all living things came into existence in unchanging forms due to divine will, was notably in opposition to the concept of evolution.
Now you can note that the earlier greek concept of descent with modification has been discarded to fit a theological interpretation, not evidence, and that since that time creationism has be forced to re-incorporate variation and adaptation and the separation of distinct populations with subsequent descent with modification into different forms.
Then you can teach how the objective evidence of reality, the fossil record of life on earth in the past, and the stages of life as they occurred in the fossil record. Does the fossil record support the Christian theory of a singular special creation, or does it support the Greek theory of spontaneous appearance of different species at different times.
quote:
Medieval thinking was also, oddly enough, confused by the idea of spontaneous generation, which stated that living things can appear fully formed from inorganic matter. In this view, maggots came from rotting meat, frogs came from slime, etc. This sort of a concept prevented both genetic thinking and speculation about evolution or descent with modification. Nevertheless, a few philosophers theorized about some sort of teleological principle by which species might derive from a divine form.
This is another variation of "special creation," one that adopts the earlier Greek theory of the spontaneous appearance of new species. These newly appeared species would then have been in unchanging forms due to divine will.
With the later (post Darwin) adoption of variation and adaptation, and the separation of distinct populations with subsequent descent with modification into different forms, we can see that this concept appears to fit the fossil record and the evidence of life on earth more closely than before. One can also show that this also has required substantial modification of the original concept of a single special creation of all life forms.
Thus you can point out how ideas and concepts change to fit the evidence, that this is how theories work in science, with new and better fitting approximations replacing older ones or regulating them to special conditions. Discuss how the scientific method was developed.
http://anthro.palomar.edu/evolve/evolve_1.htm
quote:
Late in the 18th century, a small number of European scientists began to quietly suggest that life forms are not fixed. The French mathematician and naturalist, George Louis Leclerc, Comte de Buffon actually said that living things do change through time. He speculated that this was somehow a result of influences from the environment or even chance. He believed that the earth must be much older than 6000 years. In 1774, in fact, he speculated that the earth must be at least 75,000 years old. He also suggested that humans and apes are related.
And now you can bring in Mendel and genetics, nested hierarchies and the evidence for descent from a common ancestral population. You can show the methodology used by Mendel to show how scientific investigation was developing to evidence based theory.
quote:
Another late 18th century closet-evolutionist was Erasmus Darwin, the grandfather of the well known 19th century naturalist, Charles Darwin. Erasmus was an English country physician, poet, and amateur scientist. He believed that evolution has occurred in living things including humans, but he only had rather fuzzy ideas about what might be responsible for this change. He wrote of his ideas about evolution in poems and a relatively obscure two volume scientific publication entitled Zoonomia; or, the Laws of Organic Life (1794-1796). In this latter work, he also suggested that the earth and life on it must have been evolving for "millions of ages before the commencement of the history of mankind."
This is an opportunity to discuss Wallace and his theories of biogeography, the Wallace Line and the Wallace Effect.
quote:
The first evolutionist who confidently and very publicly stated his ideas about the processes leading to biological change was a French protégé of the Comte de Buffon. He was Jean-Baptiste Chevalier de Lamarck. Unfortunately, his theory about these processes was incorrect.
Then you can teach why Lamarkism is incorrect, what the evidence shows. You can also raise the specter of Haeckle, and the etchings of fetal development and discuss the current state of science on this issue.
You can teach how the theory of acquired characteristics and the theory that ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny were falsified, how the scientific method was developed to test concepts rather than just propose explanations.
Then you can move on to Darwin and into modern biology, you can use modern pictures (see Ken Miller textbook) of fetal development to show the preservation of ancestral traits in the development of different species and the adaptation of previous features to new uses. Talk about ring species and reproductive isolation in dog breeding, and the modern fields of genetics, population dynamics ...
Is that a bad thing?
Enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Percy, posted 01-24-2009 7:47 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by Percy, posted 01-24-2009 2:31 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
fallacycop
Member (Idle past 5543 days)
Posts: 692
From: Fortaleza-CE Brazil
Joined: 02-18-2006


Message 7 of 8 (495822)
01-24-2009 12:45 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by RAZD
01-24-2009 6:52 AM


Re: An important distinction
but no method to provide a final exact method has been determined
In fact it has been proven that no final exact method can be provided. π is known to be an irrational number

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Percy
Member
Posts: 22480
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 8 of 8 (495837)
01-24-2009 2:31 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by RAZD
01-24-2009 12:26 PM


Re: On the other hand
Hi RAZD,
Your proposals would be attacked for running counter to the new amendments by those who promoted them.
We can't let science curriculums be defined by those hostile to science. It is not a view of science that there are, as stated by one amendment, "aspects of the fossil record that do not neatly fit with the idea of species’ gradually changing over time." We must always oppose the insertion of unscientific ideas into public school science curriculums.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
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