Is Ego, the source of dissonance/discord?

Is Ego, the source of dissonance/discord? I am new here, and have an interest in psychological dynamics, so I decided to jump in and propose a topic. Please feel free to address anything I mess up with, as I am still learning how to operate this site. Perspectives of others interests me a great deal, so I would like to know if anyone has any views to share, on whether 'Ego' is the source of individual, cognitive dissonance, and/or global discord. I would also be interested in anyones perspective as to whether there is any external/internal ability to influence Ego. {edit-italics added}The basis for my use, of 'Ego' terminology is Freud’s psychoanalytical theory.DEFINITIONS: PROPOSITION: Based on Freud’s psychoanalytical theory, Ego is regarded as a controlling factor. My proposition with this topic; is not to discuss the validity of Freud’s original theory, as one could argue semantics, ‘until the cows come home’. Briefly my personal view is, if Ego makes order of our inner and outer perspective, then I would liken, Ego - to that of adult, Id - to that of child, Superego - to that of teen. Subsequently, my observation of factions in general, has led me to theorise as to the source of cognitive dissonance, and global discord.Therefore I propose; that dissonant manifestation of our perspectives, and/or actions may stem from Ego, the operative/adult side of our persona. Further; inconsistency in action or perspective, stems from an imbalance, or ability of Ego to manage Id and Superego. Subsequently I speculate that one might have the ability to influence Ego, but as to the source of that ability I have no idea, and am open to all perspectives. {italics edit}CONCLUDING: Questions for consideration.

Is Ego the source of individual and global discord?

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Is it possible for Ego to be influenced internally or externally? {italics edit}

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Does a lack of Ego maturity create actions, which merely seek to gratify the Id and Superego?

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Does gratifying the Id, and Superego, create dissonance/discord?

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I would appreciate any perspective people wish to share, in relation to this topic, and/or my questions.

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Shaz

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This message has been edited by Shaz, 03 January 2005 08:45 AM

Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

Good job. Same here... Somehow, it seems to me that purely physical machines with no kind of free-will and/or metaphysical nature may not completely explain the patterns of human history. I was with you up to this point.You seemed to indicate above that you believed the ego was the "adult" or the one that controlled the Id and Superego, and here you are saying that something ELSE controls the Ego as well?I'm not saying it is not possible that something ELSE does control the ego, but we have to figure out what that is. What do you believe this controling factor is and by what means does it "gain skillful management of the Ego"? I think cognitive dissonance occurs when a person is trying to decide between two alternatives. I suppose this could occur when a person opens the fridge and the Id tells a person to eat, but the superego has been ingrained by society to tell a person to be skinny and the ego must determine which impulse to obey. ...But I'm no psychologist.IMO, discord in society as a whole occurs because a person values his own self with its needs and wants more than others.This message has been edited by Hangdawg13, 01-02-2005 11:52 AM

And from here, some such as myself believe that humans, who are victims of Original Sin, will always value themselves more than others. The very concept of obedience, which would have prevented Original Sin, suggests that Gods value SHOULD have been obeyed rather than rejected. The self became the source, rather than the Spirit.Now, for the other camp who believes in no such (god), survival of the fittest is an evolutionary necessity. Yet these same atheists will cringe and point fingers when Israel, in an attempt to survive, slaughters the barbaric people who also would seek to displace them.Allow me to say one thing: It is odd that the ones throughout History who were absolutist often drifted from God to their own Ego as internal/external ruler, and it was, ironically, the atheist humanists who pulled society back to reason. Many atheists successfully argue that the religious fundamentalists who love God and country actually hinder progress, while the atheist who "altruistically thinks of others above self" actually has higher moral standards.( Oops, then they too show an ego! ) As a Christian, I see God at work in atheists as well as (a few) fundies!
The source of dissonance is this: Trust myself or trust God?Shaz, sorry if I drifted from your non-religious topic, but I just wanted to show my opinion on it.This message has been edited by Phatboy, 01-02-2005 11:18 AM

Now, for the other camp who believes in no such (god), survival of the fittest is an evolutionary necessity. Yet these same atheists will cringe and point fingers when Israel, in an attempt to survive, slaughters the barbaric people who also would seek to displace them.'Survival of the Fittest', as you say, dictates evolution. But this doesn't mean that you have to base your morals on a scientific theory; that just doesn't make sense. It's silly to use a scientific theory as an excuse to harm others.

Hangdawg13:You made a very good point here: Thank you for pointing this out, I did not see the hole in my proposed logic. I should add I have been speculating about this theory for years, and in one post, you show me a point full of ambiguity. Sincerely thank you for that. My mind has gone stale, so I am seeking more input and alternative perspectives.I currently believe that we have 3 components to our psyche, and utilising the Freudian theory, I believe ego controls the id and superego. I also believe that each is interdependant. However I throw open to question, and/or speculation, as to what if anything controls the ego. I am unable to throw out the notion of the ability, to influence or improve the ego altogether, at this stage. That does not sit well with me, as it then leads me to speculate, that I as self have no power or control over improving balance, or management/manipulation of the ego. Which then leads me to question, neurolinguistic programming, and whether I would ever need to accept responsibility for my actions again. So if there is a controlling factor, could it be, mind, brain, spirit, or even a compilation of these things?To further complicate this, I have speculated whether, mind, brain, spirit, is in fact the id, ego, superego. All again being interdependent, but there still lies the question of control, and influence. Excuse the apparent rambling in my post, I am trying to put it all together in my head, as I write, and doing a very poor job of it too I feel. Given your statement above, may I ask with this example, what do feel is the determining factor for the ego's decision? I would also be interested to know whether, you see that decision as being able to be influenced at all? i.e. today you eat, yet tomorrow you decide not to. The difference being what?Thanks again Hangdawg.Shaz

Hi Phatboy:No problem at all with you jumping on here. ( I must say, I love your avator too) This topic is not necessarily, religious or non religious, I actually put it out there for ideas and to gain other perspectives. You have actually addressed something, and I hope you don't mind if I ask for more info, as to your position in regards to this: Do you see God, as being an external/internal influence on Ego?Shaz

Most definitely. In order to allow Him to be an internal influence, One must surrender to Him. Check out this definitions page:
define:ego - Google SearchInteresting what the ego is perceived as. I see the soul as being made up of the mind, the will, and the emotions. The mind is what I think, the will is what I want, and the emotions are what I feel.
When I surrendered to God, He became my Boss. Would that make Him a Super Ego? Perhaps that is why church folk throughout History who claim to speak for God are actually becoming Him....in their own minds. A case for fundamentalism vs humanism. Comments?This message has been edited by Phatboy, 01-03-2005 06:14 AM

Thanks for your reply. You're welcome. Me too. It didn't sit well with me at first either, but then I realized that this paradox and the notion of free-will in general is only caused by time and since I am a Christian and believe in a life beyond this one and not necessarily even in this same universe with time as a dimension. So the question of free-will has implications beyond my present human comprehension. No apologies necessary! You don't sound rambling, and I ramble quite a bit myself. Well, if you eat today, tomorrow is a whole different story. You've got new information. You gained a pound, you feel guilty so you don't eat and work out or you may feel defeated and say, "oh what the heck, I'll have some more cake."I really don't know. I believe that our minds are very complex computers that give us the experience of consciousness. Unlike the computers we use, it is very easy to cover up certain information and illuminate other information so that our minds are not strictly bound to logic in their decisions. Now if there is something metaphyscial besides our own brain that helps with this covering up and illuminating and persuading I do not know, but I consider it a good possibility.In the case of the fridge, one could go through a massive process of first trying to determine which goal is more important: eat or be skinny, and then go through another massive process of rationalization to justify one decision or the other inspite of that goal.The thing I do not know is this: is the final product of all this computation a decision which creates the illusion of free-will or is there a metaphysical or spiritual aspect to our consciousness that makes our actions impossible to predict even with the perfect simulation and influences us to become something that we would not otherwise be. I think the answer may be a little bit of both. That free-will is a sort of time-bound illusion while our spirit is sort of eternal and waiting for us to realize it by means of our free-will. I'm not sure if that makes any sense, but words always fail for these sorts of things. Have you ever read "The Great Divorce" by C.S. Lewis? He does a good job of illustrating this paradox in a Christian light.

Phatboy:Sorry it took so long to get back to your post. I am seriously thinking that my original idea with this thread was way of kilter. So could we take the fundamentalism vs Humanism, and propose it as a new topic? If it hasnt already been done. lol Shaz

Hangdawg:Sorry I took so long to get back to you also. As I said to phatboy, I am thinking that my original concept was a bit off kilter, so I am inclinded to shelve it. I have taken on board your views though, to add to the pool within my mental cavity. In relation to CS Lewis. I have to confess, that one of the things that I have a weakness in, is the ability to remember titles and/or names. I have read lot's of Christian material in the past, including CS Lewis stuff, but I could not begin to tell you what specifically. I will put the book and title on my list, to check it out though. Thanks.Shaz