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Author Topic:   WORK
Steve
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 71 (117196)
06-21-2004 3:49 PM


Does anybody who posts here have an actual job that requires of them real responsiblity? (Non-Homer Simpson type job)
Has anybody here actually experienced awesome life situations that bring them to their knees?
And for all you none believers, do your cares travel further than you and anyone who benefits you?

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Loudmouth, posted 06-21-2004 6:04 PM Steve has not replied
 Message 4 by Unseul, posted 06-21-2004 6:16 PM Steve has not replied
 Message 7 by pink sasquatch, posted 06-21-2004 6:37 PM Steve has not replied
 Message 8 by Phobos, posted 06-21-2004 7:16 PM Steve has replied
 Message 10 by crashfrog, posted 06-21-2004 9:13 PM Steve has not replied
 Message 21 by coffee_addict, posted 06-23-2004 12:27 AM Steve has not replied
 Message 49 by bob_gray, posted 06-24-2004 2:36 PM Steve has replied

  
AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 2 of 71 (117246)
06-21-2004 5:51 PM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

  
Loudmouth
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 71 (117257)
06-21-2004 6:04 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Steve
06-21-2004 3:49 PM


quote:
Does anybody who posts here have an actual job that requires of them real responsiblity? (Non-Homer Simpson type job)
Hehe, I wouldn't call working at a nuclear power plant a job without responsibility.
But yes, I do have responsibilities at work. I don't handle radioactive materials, but I do handle deadly bacteria and toxic chemicals. The safety of my co-workers and loved ones is my largest responsibility.
quote:
Has anybody here actually experienced awesome life situations that bring them to their knees?
I got maced one time. Does that count? It was awesomely painful anyway. But seriously, yes I have had those moments but it was never part of a religion or what I would call a true spiritual moment. Like most non-believers, I tend to be more skeptical than your average Joe. However, I won't deny that you may have had this type of experience.
quote:
And for all you none believers, do your cares travel further than you and anyone who benefits you?
Of course. It is part of the human condition. I can't think of any off the top of my head, but there are non-believing philanthropists in this world. I don't see how believers have a corner on the "caring" market. Personaly, I volunteer from time to time for marathons, 5k walks, neighborhood cleanups, and the like. My benefit is just helping someone out in the hopes that they will help someone in need sometime in the future. A happy and helpful society benefits everyone.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Steve, posted 06-21-2004 3:49 PM Steve has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by Unseul, posted 06-21-2004 6:22 PM Loudmouth has replied

  
Unseul
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 71 (117267)
06-21-2004 6:16 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Steve
06-21-2004 3:49 PM


Does anybody who posts here have an actual job that requires of them real responsiblity?
A very loud, relieved, resounding NO! I am currently enjoying my student life very much and have no intention of joining the real workforce for as long as possible, been there, done the 50 hour weeks (not responsibility but still hard work), decided i didnt like it.
Awesome life situations like? i mean i've been charged by several pissed african elephants once on foot several times ON a landrover. Been pretty much face to face with an old bull elephant tho he didnt know it thankfully. Stayed underwater for the entirity of a 300m grade 5 rapid, that seemed pretty scary wasnt sure if i was gonna make it. Willingly stepped off over a 50 metre gorge, thankfully had a large rope attached when i did it. They're all heart in mouth situations, but i didnt read too much into them.
Do my cares travel further than myself and anyone that benefits me... thats actually quite a tricky one, i would say no. I feel that i very rarely perform an act that doesnt benefit me in some way. But there again i reckon that most people would see benefits to themselves in almost any action as well, else why would they do it?
Unseul

Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life....
Do unto others before they do unto you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Steve, posted 06-21-2004 3:49 PM Steve has not replied

  
Unseul
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 71 (117270)
06-21-2004 6:22 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Loudmouth
06-21-2004 6:04 PM


You see LM at this point i would argue that running marathons etc for charities is benefiting you. Its making you fitter for one, however there would be situations where this wouldnt be applicable, however running that marathon, helping a charity etc benefits you because you feel better about yourself, you feel that spark of contentment that we all chase. I know that this has little physical benefit, which is probably what steve was after, but it is still a benefit, or at least i feel it is.
Unseul

Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life....
Do unto others before they do unto you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Loudmouth, posted 06-21-2004 6:04 PM Loudmouth has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by Loudmouth, posted 06-21-2004 6:29 PM Unseul has not replied

  
Loudmouth
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 71 (117274)
06-21-2004 6:29 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Unseul
06-21-2004 6:22 PM


quote:
You see LM at this point i would argue that running marathons etc for charities is benefiting you.
I don't run in them, I am usually one of the volunteers that hands out water and stuff like that. However, one time they gave me a stop sign and made me direct traffic during morning rush hour (it was on a Sunday, but the traffic was heavy anyway). Given that people don't like stopping at a green light put me in more danger than I like to admit. I did get a free T-shirt though.
quote:
helping a charity etc benefits you because you feel better about yourself, you feel that spark of contentment that we all chase.
Totally agree. I like to think that the benefit to me is outweighed by the benefit to others, but that's a hard one to judge. Now, if I can only volunteer for that Swedish Bikini Contest . . .

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Unseul, posted 06-21-2004 6:22 PM Unseul has not replied

  
pink sasquatch
Member (Idle past 6023 days)
Posts: 1567
Joined: 06-10-2004


Message 7 of 71 (117280)
06-21-2004 6:37 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Steve
06-21-2004 3:49 PM


Responsibility: I work with radiation, carcinogens, and toxic chemicals. I perform humane surgeries on animals. I mentor/teach/train others, including in safety matters. I perform cancer-related research that may effect the way human patients are treated in the clinic.
Usually when I'm "brought to my knees," it is at having my mind blown at the beauty and complexity of nature, especially evolution. Death doesn't bother me that much, so near-death experiences or the death of others don't effect me too terribly much...
Do my cares travel: As above, I have been doing cancer translational research for the past six years. Given the number of hours I work, and the level of my stipend, I make about minimum wage to deal with the responsibilities and hazards I mentioned above - so I'm not in it for the big bucks...
Perhaps you should rethink your assumption that non-believers don't care about others. I've found that many atheists/existentialists work much harder than "believers" to make the world a better place, since they see themselves as the only ones capable of doing it, whereas many believers put fate in God's hands.
You can imagine that it can be quite frustrating for an atheists, when facing bad times, that a believer says "I will pray for you."
Thanks, but is praying actually helping that person out?
Also, I agree with the post above that it may be impossible to be truly unselfish, since helping others makes a person fell good about themself.
[I'm guessing, since you started this post, that you have some horribly important job with lots of responsibility, and that you spend the rest of your time caring for others. Care to share?]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Steve, posted 06-21-2004 3:49 PM Steve has not replied

  
Phobos
Inactive Member


Message 8 of 71 (117292)
06-21-2004 7:16 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Steve
06-21-2004 3:49 PM


quote:
And for all you none believers, do your cares travel further than you and anyone who benefits you?
Quite the insulting question. Seems you are falling hard for church propoganda. Of course "non-believers" care about others. Try talking to "non-believers" sometime without the condescending tone and see what they're really like.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Steve, posted 06-21-2004 3:49 PM Steve has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by Steve, posted 06-21-2004 8:57 PM Phobos has not replied

  
Steve
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 71 (117308)
06-21-2004 8:57 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Phobos
06-21-2004 7:16 PM


It's a misnomer to refer to yourself as a non-believer because everybody believes something, whether they believe in God or not.
Anyway, what I mean by dropping to your knees is not sky diving or near death experiences, but humility. Realizing that you're not in control.
Of course everyone is benevolent to a degree, but to suggest that athieth are more so than Christians is serious lie. Christians in general and the church universal donate billions of dollars and time to feeding the hungry and helping the poor.
Here's another question, what is your motivation for helping someone, because you know it will come back to you or you know it's the right thing to do?
I guess I should have known that the average poster here is a single white guy, college age to 40 years old, out of shape, not in a commited relationship and spends too much time playing video games or being on the internet or watching tv.
Total up your hours doing selfish activities and you'll realize the difference.
Believe me, I'm not being condecending, I was an athiest, I am no better than anyone else, I can be quite selfish, but Jesus has helped me to be less so, thank the Lord. Hallelujah!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Phobos, posted 06-21-2004 7:16 PM Phobos has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by Unseul, posted 06-22-2004 6:00 AM Steve has not replied
 Message 14 by pink sasquatch, posted 06-22-2004 2:13 PM Steve has not replied
 Message 15 by zephyr, posted 06-22-2004 2:38 PM Steve has replied
 Message 16 by Chiroptera, posted 06-22-2004 3:59 PM Steve has not replied
 Message 17 by MisterOpus1, posted 06-22-2004 4:47 PM Steve has replied
 Message 39 by Firebird, posted 06-24-2004 3:32 AM Steve has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 10 of 71 (117313)
06-21-2004 9:13 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Steve
06-21-2004 3:49 PM


And for all you none believers, do your cares travel further than you and anyone who benefits you?
I wasn't aware you had to swallow fairy tales and myths made of whole cloth in order to care about your fellow human being.
In fact I'd say it's you followers of a religion where you're saved by faith and not by works who would be most likely to abdicate all responsibility for improving the world.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Steve, posted 06-21-2004 3:49 PM Steve has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by jar, posted 06-21-2004 9:15 PM crashfrog has not replied
 Message 12 by mike the wiz, posted 06-21-2004 10:01 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 11 of 71 (117315)
06-21-2004 9:15 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by crashfrog
06-21-2004 9:13 PM


Kermee, Kermee, Kermee. Don't you know that Christianity is not a religion?
Cliff is alive and well.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by crashfrog, posted 06-21-2004 9:13 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4752
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 12 of 71 (117328)
06-21-2004 10:01 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by crashfrog
06-21-2004 9:13 PM


I think what matters is that people are saying that they do good works, and to my knowledge, that means they will not lose their reward.
As for those of faith not participating in good works. Well, I don't quite believe that. If I have faith, then I will know that I cannot be justified without works, because good works have been prepared for those who have faith. Faith without works is dead. Hence my very real fears when I become backslidden. ANyone who misses these teachings has missed reading the NT. Nevertheless, we are saved by Christ.
I am very impressed with what atheists have said they have done here today. Indeed I am. For it seems I have in no way matched their good works. Excellent!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by crashfrog, posted 06-21-2004 9:13 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
Unseul
Inactive Member


Message 13 of 71 (117429)
06-22-2004 6:00 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Steve
06-21-2004 8:57 PM


I think the other athiests about might agree that they believe that the sun will rise or that tomorow will come? perhaps they believe they will lose the lottery, this is a bit more of a relevent faith article i spose. But stop being so pedantic its obvious as non-believer they are refering to non beief in any religous concepts.
Erm, well i dont actually drop to my knees, but i'd say that athiests are probably more likely to do so than thiests. I mean we're the ones that believe that out of all of this we came thru by chance, nothing else is in control, we are currently sat on a gigantic rock orbiting round an almight fusion reactor, sat in the middle of unimaginable sized space...... At least you've got a god sat there saying it'll all be fine.
My motivation to help someone is to help them, however i do benefit. I will generally help anyone i feel needs it and would appreciate it, however it always benefits me since i get that little pleased with myself feeling when i do so.
OK, single, yep thats me, but i know that a lot of posters here arent. college to 40, well thats covering a huge number of people, and in general probably the largest proportion of computer users anyway, but i also know that there are several older posters here also. Out of shape? my my we are getting abusive arent we. No i wouldnt class myself as out of shape really, i mean i havent been able to do my usual exercise due to injury recently but still no. Of course if your refering to someone who just goes to the gym then i rarely consider those people in shape, since all they have done is moved some inanimate objects, i much prefer playing with objects that fight back.
The only reason i am not in a commited relationship is because i am a freak, and have yet to find someone who appreciates that fact, i doubt the fact that i post on these boards makes much difference. Too much time playing games, internet or tv. Define too much time, you see in my view as long as i am causing no one harm, and still enjoying myself wheres the problem? I spend some time doing those things, some reading, some working, some socialising.
Hours doing selfish activities, well i reckon that depends on how you define selfish, maybe its when i benefit more than those i help? or perhaps its at any time that ive somehow helped others. Well i would hope that every minute i spend on this board helps others in some way. Whenever im revising if theres someone else around if i ask them a question it boosts their ego, if they ask me one i can generally help. When watching tele im more than willing to let someone else choose the channel. Wow most my life other people are benefitting. Gimme just a week or so and ill be in bolivia working on an animal conservation park, having paid for the privilege to do so. Damn im good!!!
Believe me, you are. Jesus has helped you now, so therefore you have become better than us athiests. You say you were an athiest, when you were so did you actually think about belief, or was it just no one had really shoved it in front of you and told u it was a good idea? I was a believer (as were most the athiests on this board) at one point in my life i sat down, thought it all through and decided that no, i dont believe that there is a god, that there is an afterlife, that there is anything but what is here. And i would say i became a better person for it, more relaxed, more willing to help others, more social, happier etc etc
Now please tell us, what superb job of responsibility you hold, whether you are a single white man aged 16-40, who spends time on the internet (obvious) watching tele and playing games. And what recent experience you had that made you realise that there was nothing out there to help, and that control is most definitly an illusion for anything outside of your most immediate life.
Unseul

Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life....
Do unto others before they do unto you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Steve, posted 06-21-2004 8:57 PM Steve has not replied

  
pink sasquatch
Member (Idle past 6023 days)
Posts: 1567
Joined: 06-10-2004


Message 14 of 71 (117536)
06-22-2004 2:13 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Steve
06-21-2004 8:57 PM


Who is The Great Steve?
Steve. You are rude, and seem quite judgemental and proud. And dare I say un-Christian.
Do you have some sort evidence showing that Christians are more benevolent, even simply at a financial level, than atheists? Until you provide it, your contention that I have made a "serious lie" is simply your opinion.
I guess I should warn you that I don't believe giving money to the church is being benevolent. Building more and bigger churches, and converting more and more people, is not being benevolent. Unfortunately, when the church is "feeding the hungry and helping the poor" it is often mixed up with a strong dose of conversion - the motivation for doing something good in this case isn't truly benevolence in my mind.
I hope you realize that risk-taking or near-death experiences can be extremely humbling, and I believe that is how people were listing them above. It is very humbling to realize you are not entirely in control of when or how your life ends. ("Realizing that your not in control" was your definition.)
I am a white guy, between college age and 40.
I also have been married for the past 5 years and this is a very loving, equal, understading relationship.
I am in shape. I am a vegetarian. I don't play video games. When I watch TV it is really an excuse to snuggle with my wife for a hour so.
I have devoted the past seven year of my life doing cancer research for next to no pay. I don't do it because I expect to get something material in return in my life.
Beside, you are also accusing without giving us your details:
Where do you work?
How many hours do you work?
What great responsibilities do you hold?
What has brought you to your knees?
Are you white?
Are you male?
Your age?
How is your wife?
Is your relationship going well?
Do you play video games or watch TV?
What benevolent works can you credit yourself with?
How many hours a week do you practice benevolence?
How many hours are you selfish?
Until you profer your life information, you have no right to judge us.
You are being condescending. You are one of the most condescending posters I have encountered on this forum. The fact that you think you're not is very disturbing.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Steve, posted 06-21-2004 8:57 PM Steve has not replied

  
zephyr
Member (Idle past 4550 days)
Posts: 821
From: FOB Taji, Iraq
Joined: 04-22-2003


Message 15 of 71 (117541)
06-22-2004 2:38 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Steve
06-21-2004 8:57 PM


quote:
I guess I should have known that the average poster here is a single white guy, college age to 40 years old, out of shape, not in a commited relationship and spends too much time playing video games or being on the internet or watching tv.
You condescending, presumptuous, arrogant man.
You don't have a clue whom you're addressing, and your insulting assumptions will only alienate your audience. I for one am a military officer in my mid-20's studying martial arts, volunteer all the time just for the fun of helping people, and despise TV. I only get online because I find such fascinating people there (for good or bad) and because it has become my main source of information and education.
You're welcome to your faith, but don't suggest that it provides you a clearer view of reality or that we are missing something in not being like you. It's clear that your sense of tact and kindness has not been served in the slightest by your conversion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Steve, posted 06-21-2004 8:57 PM Steve has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by Steve, posted 06-22-2004 11:48 PM zephyr has not replied

  
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