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Author Topic:   What does Obamas choice of Hillary Clinton mean?
onifre
Member (Idle past 2951 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 1 of 5 (490052)
12-01-2008 11:45 PM


I found this article in the Guardian...
It's in the past: Obama and Clinton bury the enmity | Obama administration | The Guardian
...this Quote from the article I think nailed it.
quote:
A naive and irresponsible politician, prone to distorting the facts, awarded a crucial role in his cabinet yesterday to a deeply flawed has-been who is neither honest nor trustworthy - or so you might have imagined had you relied on the character judgments that each had previously made of the other.
Obama clearly made harsh character judgements about Hillary.
Why then would he select her as SoS?
Does it mean that he lied about the way he felt about her during the campaign?
Was any of the things he said about Hillary even true?
What does it say about Obama's character if he lied about her?
Finally, was she the best decision or is the Democatic party preping Hillary for the Presidential position...Or is it both?
The article closes by saying,
quote:
The cynical interpretation of Obama's decision is that it neutralises a rival Clinton powerbase in the Senate. Another view is he prizes practical experience and independence of mind in his appointees, and is confident of imposing ideological direction on them.
"This is fun for the press to try to stir up whatever quotes were generated in the campaign," Obama said. "No, I understand. And you're having fun, and there's nothing wrong with that."
One of the most compelling rivalries in modern political history, he seemed to be saying, was now nothing but fond memories. And maybe he is right.
I would agree with the yellow portion I highlighted. Also, I would add that he lied about Hillary and that does make his character questionable, however, no more questionable than most politicians.
Your thoughts,
--Oni

"All great truths begin as blasphemies"
"I smoke pot. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your mouth."--Bill Hicks
"I never knew there was another option other than to question everything"--Noam Chomsky

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by FliesOnly, posted 12-02-2008 7:56 AM onifre has not replied
 Message 5 by Huntard, posted 12-02-2008 11:41 AM onifre has not replied

  
AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 2 of 5 (490060)
12-02-2008 1:59 AM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

  
FliesOnly
Member (Idle past 4145 days)
Posts: 797
From: Michigan
Joined: 12-01-2003


Message 3 of 5 (490088)
12-02-2008 7:56 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by onifre
12-01-2008 11:45 PM


onifre writes:
I would agree with the yellow portion I highlighted. Also, I would add that he lied about Hillary and that does make his character questionable, however, no more questionable than most politicians.
I think quite a few people would focus on the yellow portion you highlighted. Me, I actually tend to agree more with the remaining portions.
I will admit that I get a bit tired and frustrated with all the "Clinton Conspiracy" stuff. As for what was said during the campaign...well shit...that's what happens during a campaign...what do you expect? Crap like that is said in all political campaigns (at least in those running for a major office), but yet we are now focusing once again on the Clintons. What about McCain...nasty shit was said about him and by him, and he's soon back to work. What about Palin? She's back to work in Alaska. And yet nobody is talking about how their "work environment" is going?
As soon as Obama became the Democratic candidate, my wife said "I hope he appoints Hillary as SOS". Why? Well, personally, both of us felt that she would make a damned fine SOS.
So here we are now, and she's likely going to indeed be our next SOS. And here we are now, once again scrutinizing her more so than anyone else from this past election season.
Let it go.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by onifre, posted 12-01-2008 11:45 PM onifre has not replied

  
kuresu
Member (Idle past 2513 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 4 of 5 (490101)
12-02-2008 10:37 AM


SoS is a rather poor jumping off place to later become president. It was early on in our country's history, but not now.
Jefferson was SoS under Washington.
Madison under Jefferson.
Monroe under Madison.
JQ Adams under Monroe.
van Buren under Jackson.
Buchanan under Polk.
Not since the civil war, in other words, has an SoS become president.
Bush the Senior is the only person in recent history I know of who worked for the State Dep at a high level and become President.
And, assuming Obama isn't in the running four years from now, Clinton will be 65. She will be 69 eight years from now. The more likely scenario is that she could run in eight years, but we've only elected something like 5 people 65 or older for the first term. Most presidents are elected in their mid-to-late fifties.
That doesn't mean Hillary won't run 4 or 8 years from now and she won't be elected, but SoS is not a path to the presidency like it once was, and very few people have been in their sixties when first elected.

  
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2295 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 5 of 5 (490103)
12-02-2008 11:41 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by onifre
12-01-2008 11:45 PM


Here's my take on it.
Does it mean that he lied about the way he felt about her during the campaign?
Of course he lied about that, it was a political campaign after all. You just want to get more voters, and that simply won't work with saying your opponent is just as good, or even better, then you are at running things.
Was any of the things he said about Hillary even true?
Though I don't know here as well as you do, I'd say no, at the very worst it was exaggerated. At the very best it was just not true.
What does it say about Obama's character if he lied about her?
Nothing. It does however say a great deal about his profession. He's a politician.
Finally, was she the best decision or is the Democatic party preping Hillary for the Presidential position...Or is it both?
No idea. I just don't know enough about all these people to make a sound judgement call beyond the bare basics. So, let me just say that her 8 years as first lady probably gave her a lot of experience with this sort of stuff.

I hunt for the truth

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by onifre, posted 12-01-2008 11:45 PM onifre has not replied

  
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