When Macrophages Go Awry

This proposed thread is about those amoeboid creatures living in our bloodstreams we call "macrophages." Like pet fleas, they can befriend us or they can bite us.As an old hoot (I'll be threescore years and ten next March), I suffer from certain symptoms associated with inflammatory diseases. What I notice about my symptoms is how they seem to radiate or communicate from one place to another in my body: one symptom somewhere seems to spark others elsewhere in places that I know to be particularly sensitive. For example, I recently had an attack of diverticulitis”inflammations in my colon (little sores) that are common to older people. I am quite familiar with the symptoms. (I can even show you pictures from a colonoscopy, but you don't really want to see them.) Now, in this recent attack, as with others I have known, my diverticulitis seemed to spread somehow to my right knee: I developed an extremely bad case of tendonitis there. But, now, without taking anything more than aspirin and ibuprofen, the tendonitis is gone and so is the diverticulitis. In earily attacks, the tendonitis developed in my ankle, the top of my foot, or in my big toe”always on the right side.Last week, while searching the Internet for information on my severe knee pain, I ran across this recent article in Science Daily: "New Protein Family Implicated In Inflammatory Diseases"

quote:

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"What we found is a family of proteins that control macrophage activation," researcher Mingui Fu said from a laboratory in the Burnett School of Biomedical Sciences at UCF.

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Macrophages are the body's self-cleaners. They live in the bloodstream and are called to action when bacteria or other foreign objects attack. Scientists have been studying what triggers them, but no one has come up with a step-by-step process yet. Once triggered, macrophages travel to the infection site and gobble up the invader, helping the body heal. The attack is manifested by inflammation at the infection site.

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When everything works right, the inflammation goes away and the person's health improves. But when macrophages go awry, they can cause more harm than good. Sometimes the macrophages mistake the body's own organs for invaders and attack, and that can cause arthritis or some forms of cancer. Sometimes the cleaners fail to detect threats, such as malignant cancer cells, which then go unregulated and can turn into fatal tumors

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For three days, while I was suffering the annoying symptoms of diverticulitis, my knee was so crippled up with tendonitis I couldn't bend it, climb stairs, or drive my car. But it went away like a horde of gnawing locusts and left nothing in its wake”completely gone, as was my diverticulitis.Now I have a new theory about what was wrong with me. Given this discovery of the trigger protein that releases macrophages into the bloodstream, I think the pain I felt in my knee was actually an attack by those "protective" macrophages on one of my sensitive tendons. Those macrophages went awry and attacked my knee like a swarming school of piranha. This makes me wonder just how many of our inflammatory illness can be attributed to these rogue predators of otherwise healthy tissue. And maybe this discovery of the activation protein will lead to ways for keeping those little buggers from chewing on my right leg.Any thoughts on this?[Admins: do we have a Heath thread for this one?]”HM

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"Vegetarian": An old Indian word for "bad hunter." ”Sarah Palin's bumper sticker

Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

Why isn't anybody but me concerned about these creepy little macrophages careering through our bodies? (source)They tried to eat my knee, and sometimes other parts, too. But what if we found the trigger protein that sets these monsters loose? Could we sequester them for beneficial duties only?”HM Edited by Hoot Mon, : added source

You might want to look at this article.
The Role of Synovial Macrophages and Macrophage-produced CytokinesI take Enbrel to manage my psoriatic arthritis which is a similar mechanism. It does increase the chances of infection though, so I don't know if yu would be a candidate

ramoss, I couldn't get to your article. But I think my occasional bouts with these macrophages are not as bad as your psoriatic arthritis. They probably have the same etiology, though.”HM

Here is a link to research by Ajit Varki, at UC San Diego. He is exploring other avenues which may be related to your condition. Non-human Molecule Absorbed by Eating Red Meat and Dairy Generates an Immune Response Against the MoleculeThis is potentially very significant, and may explain, in part, why aspirin is effective in preventing strokes and heart disease--it may be its role as an anti-inflammatory agent.In any case, see if a change in diet to reduce the amount of sialic acid and Neu5Gc in your system may be of some help. The link gives the amounts in many common foods. It is an easy thing to try and maybe it will be of some benefit.

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Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Or maybe aspirin slows down the macrophages so they don't eat more of you than you need to be healthy. I am a vegetarian, mostly, but I do eat yogurt. I don't eat red meat, though. So, I'm not so sure that Neu5Gc is part of my battle with my macrophages.I'd like to know: Do macrophages cause inflammation? Or does inflammation cause macrophages?”HM

Hi Hoot. I appreciate that you've shared this concern. Macrophages appear to be just another of the designer's intricate complexities relative to the body's ability to survive.Like pain, fever, cholesterol, etc, macrophages are essential for life and health but when the biology of the body becomes unbalanced or disorientated due to the food we consume, drugs (including prescription) and ecological pressures, some form of health remedy becomes needful for stabilization and restoration of balance to the body's functions.Likely, like fever, etc there is an underlying problem which may have caused an imbalance in the macrophages if that is what is going on in your body.There appears to be a correlation between macrophages and diverticulitis, since it is likely something detrimental to the gut which caused the diverticulitis.Since macrophages are designed to cleanse the gut from foreign, un-natural or problematic stuff, perhaps the cleansing process, like fever or pain may cause some discomfort before healing is effected. Perhaps also, if you are ingesting anything like prescription drugs which are foreign to the body these macrophages are attacking these and working to eliminate them.With the above in mind, this is why I go with holistic health regimes when problems arise. Just as in the planet's environment, when the biological ecology of the bodys systems becomes unbalanced by foreign invaders, problems arise.Below are two websites which may shed some light relative to your questions and lend some support to my comments. I pray for enlightenment and health on your behalf. (Embolding mine for emphasis)Cat's Claw Una de Gato Uncaria tomentosa Peruvian Inner Bark (Embolding mine for emphasis)Page not found - Holistic Nutrition For The Whole You

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Hi Buz. You write: My gut lining does seem to be one of my weak spots, and I have no doubts that my macrophages are nibbling away on that, too. Certain things I do will set them off: eating poorly, too much hard exercise, emotional stress, catching a cold. All of these seem to trigger a massive macrophage response, often beyond my gut itself. To me there seems to be a trigger mechanism, which may be what UCF researchers have identified: "New Protein Family Implicated In Inflammatory Diseases". I agree. But I shy away from almost all health-regime promises. I like the principles of holistic medicine the most. I'll give Cat's Paw and grape seed some consideration. Thanks. On the other hand, though, I've seen the foolishness in massive dosing with vitamin C and other health-supplement gimmicks. So I am holistically suspicious.In my case, as I approach 70, I see most of my health issues as being inevitable. I rank high on the chart for being predisposed to cancer, and I have very high blood pressure. I live as if the Old Man in Long Dark Coat will come knocking on my door any day now. What I really need is an herb that will help me see him coming ahead of time so that I can be away from home when he gets here.Many thanks for your interest.”HM

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It's not that I'm afraid to die. I just don't want to be there when it happens. ”Woody Allen

I have a friend who is an engineer at Still River Systems, a company that makes proton therapy units for hospitals. He told me yesterday that many arthritic men who have their cancerous prostates zapped with protons also experience an added benefit. The arthritis in their hips goes away. He said the doctors have reasoned that the macrophages eating away on their hips had also been zapped by the protons.”FTF

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I can see Lower Slobovia from my house.

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An article in a 2006 issue of Radiation Biophysics, researches examined the
"Phagocytotic activity of macrophages after exposure to ionising radiation". They conclude that:

quote:

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These results indicate that ionising radiation
activated the resting macrophages in a way that their
phagocytic ability increased and also that LPS-activated
macrophages can be activated further by radiation.
Our previous studies have shown that this activation
with ionising radiation alone is not coupled with the pro-
duction and release of inflammatory cytokines [4]. This
indicates that cytokine production by macrophages is not
a direct effect of the radiation, but potentially a result of
the increased phagocytic ability of irradiated macro-
phages that were present in the irradiated tissue.

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Thus, rather than taming them down, ionizing radiation whips them up under experimental conditions. So much for any untested claims that proton therapy radiation can cure arthritis.”FTF

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I can see Lower Slobovia from my house.

My wife acquired psoriatic arthritis at age 50 and it was so bad that it took her an our just to get out of bed in the morning and getting her joints to move. She could barely walk around a store once to do any shopping. This was particularly hard on her as she has always been very active, skiing, scuba diving, hiking and biking.After about two years of this, she was given gold shots (gold sodium thalamate) a once a week injection that I gave her, and this was a real miracle drug for her - she recovered almost full activity and the pain of the arthritis went away almost completely. About ten years ago, she was switched to Methatrexate, an oral tablet she takes once a week and this works even better. Methatrexate was first discovered when millions of drugs were screened as cancer therapies and is still one of the most commonly used cancer medications. Women who were taking Methatrexate for cancer and also had arthritis noticed that it alleviated those symptoms as well. The progression of the disease, an autoimmune disease that eats away at joint cartilage, has not entirely stopped and three years ago she had both knees replace with titanium knee prosthetics. At age 69, she is now pain free, very active (I can't keep up with her on the ski slopes) and enjoys a rich lifestyle. We just hope that medical science continues to keep up with our maladies as we age. I think part of the secret to good health, or at least an enjoyable lifestyle, is to find a good doctor who treats medicine as a science, not some mystical exercise, and knows what crank remedies to avoid.

Hi AIG,I'm please to hear that your wife has almost fully recovered from psoriatic arthritis. So, she's 69 (my age) and skiing like champ now; that's very good. This makes me wonder if methatrexate affects the protein switch that turns the macrophages on and off.”FTF

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I can see Lower Slobovia from my house.

Medical researchers argue over which disease has caused the most deaths over the human species 200,000 year history, usually pushing the particular disease they are studying as the greatest killer. Actually, the greatest cause by far of human deaths has been suicide - not suicide by gun or knife or poison, but suicide by immune reaction. For example, some tuberculosis researchers insist that that has kill more humans than any other infectious disease.Tuberculosis (called Consumption in the old days) is caused by a bacterium that is very tiny, even for a bacterium - Mycobacterium tuberculosis - that has a cell membrane, but no cell wall. Because it is very fragile and vulnerable, it tends to cluster in waxy films, the small spots that chest x-rays try to reveal. These spots never cover more than a small fraction of the lung area. But the immune system still sees them as a foreign substance in the lung a tries to flush them out by drawing fluids into the lung. This is just what it does when you get a cold or the flu or almost any other respiratory infection. This is the cause of all that mucus and phlegm you get - all the bacteria you ever have in your entire body for your entire life would be lost in a thimble! The waxy film protects the bacteria and the immune system is triggered to try harder and harder to flush out the bacterium. By drawing fluid from the blood into the lungs in ever increasing amounts, the immune system slowly drowns the victim.A similar thing happens with dysentery. The immune system draws large amounts of fluid from the blood into the digestive tract to flush out amoeba, bacteria, or poisons, and if not successful, will keep trying harder and harder until other organs, particularly the brain, are desiccated and the victim dies. The immune system has other tricks, such as high fevers or actually breaking down the blood cell walls to expel blood borne (Hemorrhagic) disease agents. When the immune system goes overboard in these attempts it becomes a cure that is far worse than the disease. Many of the medications given for various diseases do not attack the disease itself, they try to tone down the immune response so that it doesn't kill the patient, i. e., they treat the symptoms, not the disease.How does all this square with a theory of evolution that promises Survival of the Fittest? Shouldn't we have evolved immune systems that are precisely tuned to provide just the right amount of defense without killing us? Shouldn't our macrophages and other immune response cells have sworn to a Hippocratic oath: first, do no harm? The answer is as simple as it is draconian. First, we must realize that immune reactions are carried out in an environment of gross uncertainty. The cytokines released by infected cells or other immune cells to call for immune response are just simple alarms that give little information of the nature or the extent of the infection, so a precisely tailored response is not possible. Next, survival of the fittest does not just apply to the individual; it applies even more significantly to the group - pack, herd, covey, tribe, etc. - and to the species. It even applies to the entire ecosystem. So, a groups survival might best be served by sacrifice of an individual.A tribe or herd can usually readily survive the loss of one individual, particularly if they are very young or old, but not the onslaught of a widespread epidemic. People who have had house fires, most often small kitchen fires, often complain that the firefighters did more damage than the fire. They should understand that the firefighters first concern and duty is to save the neighborhood, not the house. So, in evolutionary terms, a species that possesses a hyper-reactive immune system is more likely to survive - be more fit - than one with a 'Hippocratic' immune system.The bottom line here, Fearless, is that you should stop critiquing your macrophages. You are being sacrificed for the good of all mankind.