Re: The Supernatural, does it really exist?

First off I want to apologize if this topic has been discussed elsewhere. I was watching this show on TV and it was about haunted houses and hotels I was amazed that there are some place in the US stamped "officially" haunted. One place I think called the Whiley house had a 'ghost hunter' show photographs of the various spectors, just blurs and 'orbs' yet these photos are claimed to be 'real'. My question is has anyone once and for all found something of the supernatural to be factual and have hard evidence to support it? The reason I ask is because I personally have never had a supernatural expieriance and have heard others tell they're tales but no evidence other than the claims. Is there such a thing as the SUPERNATURAL? Or is it all a bunch of BS.

No evidence that is undisputed. There are numerous videos, photos and sound recordings of ghosts/bigfoot/nessie and ufos, but all of them are low quality, hard to verify and there have been so many hoaxes as to cast doubt on anything that is seen.
In the cases of ghosts the majority are bad photography, either bad film, sun strike or other anomilies.
I have friends and family who say they have had encounters, but mostly they just disregard it as unexplained and unexplainable.

I've read where a Christian who was formerly a spiritualist said he had witnessed levitations numerous times in spiritualist meetings. I've also heard a couple of missionaries give accounts of supernatural things being done in remote pagan rituals. I've had some personal supernatural things happen, but of course none of these can be documented. What can be documented is the Biblical prophecies fulfilled, but of course skeptics would rather eat nails than acknowledge them, so I guess that leaves them at square one.

Wertbag,Since demons have, according to many commentators, the agenda of being disbelieved in, it would be unlikely to impossible for there to exist undisputed evidence for their existence. If there were such evidence, it would prove either that we had fallen into some epistemological error and were mis-interpreting that evidence, or that our notions of what demons are and what they are up to was mistaken.Thus, the disputation that exists confirms or strengthens the plausibility of demons. In the history of science, too, it is clear that disputation is a very weak predictor of error in scientific thinking. So, that there is disputation regarding the evidence for demons is no argument at all against the testimonies.It is easy, on the other hand, to conduct simple, personal prayer studies that will convince anyone who wants to know whether demons exist or not. One simply has to pray for measurables likely to be demonized, using prayers that use protocols that "deliver" from demonic activity, contrasted with prayers that consciously refuse such protocols. These could, of course, be conducted publically, but this is not likely to be done, or accepted for publication, or accepted after publication. This is because "the prince of the power of the air" the demons, would create so much hassle, to suppress such a study/report. The prayer protocols for achieving public "deliverance" are quite expensive. They have been achieved anecdotally, for example, during the LA Olympics, several thousand persons managed to quell the urban violence, so that the city morgue went from an average of 10 deaths from violence per day, to zero, for about nine days, all prayed for. Too bad the prayers didn't have a scientist on board, to do a control. An Israeli prayer group did a little better, correlating level of (supposedly demon inspired) violence in the country, with the size of their prayer group, and getting a statistically significant result. Suggestive. They needed to vary the anti-demon orientation of their prayers as well as the level of investment, to really be publically convincing.The biggest trouble is, God has to cooperate, and He really isn't interested in solid public evidence. There are lots of skeptical people that He works hard, for now, to keep out of heaven, by keeping them in the dark, lest they repent and be saved. Ultimately, of course, He wants that to happen, but only after the personal searchers are all on board and available to help the skeptics clean up their acts.Stephen

I've expierenced the supernatural. My best friend back in 4th/5th grade had a haunted house.Drinking glasses exploded for no reason,heard all types of unexplainable sounds, and a lot of other stuff too. Right now, my littles brothers friend has an extremely haunted house. Sometimes he wakes up to the sound of screams and chains being dragged in the attic. I would most definitely say there are ghosts and stuff of that sort.

You are hijacking the phenomenon with your twisted vision. All of what is not yet scientifically explainable is not necessarily available for supernatural purpose. Matthew was speaking about potential presence of ghosts not demons. Old houses ar filled up of histories because of their age (Wood Beetles and other boring beasts).Denesha

I stayed 2 nights in the Menger Hotel in SanAntonio Tx, It was built in the mid 1800's. It stands right across from the Alamo .
It is said to be haunted. My first impression upon entering was indeed a very old building with old smells and old furnishings.
Robert E Lee stayed there along with Oscar Wilde, Buffalo Bill, President Teddy Roosevelt and the rough riders., and a plethora of old west characters. I recommend anyone staying in SanAntonio to walk through it if you are ever there. So my stay was uneventful except for one room was so hot I had to get another room the next room was so cold.. The plumbing was old and I heard lots of knocks and creaks and groans. Strange smells and Victorian ornateness made me understand how a old place can appear haunted. But It was just a old hotel, I saw no ghost.

Actually, I do believe demons exist. I have seen people demon possesed a few times. I lived in Haiti for three years and i will tell you,demons most assuredly are around.

How would you tell the difference between somebody possessed by demons and somebody with a pathological need to act like they:re possessed by a demon?

Matt,
my whole point of this thread was if someone had undisputable evidence that can be tested and verified to be factual. Here say and old storys dont count. You would think that by the year 2004 someone would have undisputable photographic evidence from a non bias source of any supernatural creature or event. Why is there no proof? Show me evidence of demons and I will believe they exist. I know people can act possesed any parent of a 2 year old can attest to that.

Dear Matthew,Ok I believe you. This makes sense now.
What you call demons is the natural manifestation of natural people eating some amazing natural mushrooms or smoking some natural plants.
All this movie in a natural island, indeed.Joker, aren't you?Denesha

You don't photograph a spirit because a spirit/ghost/demon is not flesh and blood, nor matter as we know it for that matter. You photograph it and you get nothing because it's spirit -- not in our dimension.Btw, I don't know if anyone's said it or not, but demons are ghosts/spirits, one and the same. God's Holy Spirit is also known as the Holy Ghost of the spiritual dimension or what some call the "spirit world."

Sorry, i was just sharing what i thought was a supernatural event. If you don't believe me, fine, but i have no reason to make things like that up. It's not like as soon as i saw and heard these weird things that i thought:"Quick! A hypothesis! Soon I'll preform an experiment, gather the data,and it shall quickly be explained..."If i could explain it, it wouldn't be the supernatural or mysterious.It'd just be facts.You'd also think in the year 2004 we'd have also cured AIDS and cancer, got rid of world hunger, or perchance did something besides war to settle differences.Solving the supernatural is probably not on top of the list of things to accomplish soon.

I appreciate your input Matt, the crack about aids and cancer is being investigated on many levels of science and cures will come but virus and malignant cells exist and can be documented and photographed. I am not calling you a liar Matt, I believe you must of had cause to believe what you saw. I am just unconvinced it is metaphysical. There is always an explaination, and science does a pretty good job describing phenomenon. But cave man OOG throwing rocks at the moon, or a Haitian witch doctor wacked out on drugs killing chickens and casting curses are primitive thinking to say the least. The Salam Witch trials are a perfect example of what happens when hysteria and superstition get the better of people. My querie stands is there any evidence that is verifiable? A link a paper a non bias source? Anything? Or is it a Demonic consipriacy to keep it secret. Show me the evidence and I will investigate it and believe if it is factual and not a hoax.

Hi Buzz,
So in other words there is no way to verify what someone says when they say they saw a spirit? We just have to believe them?
As I told Matt the Salem witch trials is a result of people believing just that some ones word. Not buying this bill of good Buzz, get me a clear digital image of a spirit/ghost/spector/ that is confirmed authentic by several independant experts in photography and I will jump on board the train. If they do not photograph and are not composed of matter then that is convienant indeed for all ghost busters to profit from public gullability.