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Author Topic:   A confession, for discussion.
subbie
Member (Idle past 1255 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 1 of 63 (474999)
07-12-2008 7:44 PM


Homosexuality makes me uncomfortable.
The Wife and I have been watching a television show called Six Feet Under. One of the main characters is a gay man. The show has included several scenes of this man kissing his various boyfriends, as well as other scenes of simulated sexual activity between different men.
I don't like those scenes. I tend to close my eyes until they're over. I think two men kissing one another passionately is oookie. And it doesn't make any difference that the actors aren't gay (at least I don't think they are, but of course, I can't know that for sure). Even two straight gays pretending is disturbing.
I have been in social situations where I've seen two women kissing passionately. It weirded me out. Well, ok, just for a second, because they were pretty hot looking babes.
Intellectually, I don't believe homosexual sex is any more immoral than heterosexual sex. Anyone who has paid any attention to what I've been saying about gay marriage on this site knows that I'm an ardent proponent of the the right to marriage for homosexuals.
But it still makes me uncomfortable to see homosexuals kissing.
This is not a thread about the rights or wrongs of gay marriage. It's also not about whether gay sex is moral or immoral. It's about whether displays of affection between homosexuals make you uncomfortable at all.

Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Taz, posted 07-12-2008 8:01 PM subbie has replied
 Message 3 by Coragyps, posted 07-12-2008 8:06 PM subbie has replied
 Message 9 by ramoss, posted 07-12-2008 9:38 PM subbie has replied
 Message 17 by cavediver, posted 07-13-2008 8:52 AM subbie has not replied
 Message 46 by Deftil, posted 07-14-2008 9:55 AM subbie has not replied
 Message 48 by Itachi Uchiha, posted 07-14-2008 10:24 AM subbie has not replied
 Message 49 by Jazzns, posted 07-14-2008 11:14 AM subbie has not replied
 Message 51 by Hyroglyphx, posted 07-17-2008 2:08 PM subbie has not replied
 Message 61 by Fosdick, posted 07-23-2008 2:56 PM subbie has not replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3292 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 2 of 63 (475004)
07-12-2008 8:01 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by subbie
07-12-2008 7:44 PM


About a year ago my wife and I went down south to visit some relatives. We visited a zoo because we hadn't been to one for a while. While waiting in line to buy lunch, the young couple ahead of us began to kiss each other passionately. Then it got a little more passionate. You could clearly tell without looking directly that they had their tongues down each other's throats. Then the man began to massage the woman just right below her breast while still kissing her passionately. An inch or two up and he would have held her breast in his hand right in public. They continued this until it was their turn to order hot dogs and whatnot.
There were plenty of kids around. Plenty of families, aunts, uncles, etc. I looked around and nobody seemed to mind.
Speaking as a straight man, I think two people kissing each other and going at it can sometimes be gross no matter whether it's a gay or straight thing. That said, some of the most beautiful scenes of public show of affection I've seen have been between people of the same sex, and some of the most tasteless scenes I've seen have been between people of opposite sex.

I'm trying to see things your way, but I can't put my head that far up my ass.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by subbie, posted 07-12-2008 7:44 PM subbie has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by subbie, posted 07-12-2008 8:06 PM Taz has replied

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 735 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 3 of 63 (475005)
07-12-2008 8:06 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by subbie
07-12-2008 7:44 PM


How does one change that which makes one feel oookie? That's not necessarily an easy thing to do....
I share your feeling on this to a pretty good extent. I'm also a bit weirded out by hetero couples swallowing each others' tongues at, say, a public beach. But I agree with you - something that makes me, personally, uncomfortable to watch is not, ipso facto, something that should be illegal.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by subbie, posted 07-12-2008 7:44 PM subbie has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by subbie, posted 07-12-2008 8:13 PM Coragyps has not replied

  
subbie
Member (Idle past 1255 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 4 of 63 (475006)
07-12-2008 8:06 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Taz
07-12-2008 8:01 PM


I certainly agree that heterosexual p.d.a.s can carry on to the point where others might be uncomfortable. However that doesn't really have a bearing on my discomfort. I enjoy watching straight sexual activities on television or in movies.
And, it's not just over the top sex between men that bothers me. Just about anything beyond a short kiss will make me turn away.

Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Taz, posted 07-12-2008 8:01 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by Taz, posted 07-12-2008 8:22 PM subbie has replied

  
subbie
Member (Idle past 1255 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 5 of 63 (475008)
07-12-2008 8:13 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Coragyps
07-12-2008 8:06 PM


quote:
How does one change that which makes one feel oookie? That's not necessarily an easy thing to do....
And I don't even know that I want to change that it makes me feel oookie. Having considered the matter, I can quite confidently say that my personal feelings about homosexual activity won't change in any way my feelings that they're entitled to the same rights as everyone else. To my knowledge, I don't have any friends or even acquaintances who are homosexual (although I do understand that, statistically it's quite likely that some are, I just don't know it), so there's no need to acclimate myself to it to make sure I don't make anyone else feel uncomfortable because of my squeamishness.
It bothers me, but I can live with that.
quote:
I share your feeling on this to a pretty good extent. I'm also a bit weirded out by hetero couples swallowing each others' tongues at, say, a public beach. But I agree with you - something that makes me, personally, uncomfortable to watch is not, ipso facto, something that should be illegal.
Thank you for that. I didn't think that I was the only person who felt that way, but it's still nice to hear someone else say the same thing.

Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Coragyps, posted 07-12-2008 8:06 PM Coragyps has not replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3292 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 6 of 63 (475009)
07-12-2008 8:22 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by subbie
07-12-2008 8:06 PM


subbie writes:
And, it's not just over the top sex between men that bothers me. Just about anything beyond a short kiss will make me turn away.
If I didn't know any better, I'd say you have a mental disorder. There is nothing wrong with public show of affection. It certainly does not harm anyone. What's more, WE ALL DO THE SAME THING AT SOME POINT IN OUR LIVES!!!
I used to be uncomfortable when other people do things like kissing and whatnot in public. But then I gradually realized that what they decide to do has absolutely nothing to do with me. Sure, I'm not going to stare at them, but I'm not going to go out of my way to avoid them either.
If there really is a god then the most important and beautiful gift he gave us is human affection, whether it's gay or straight.
I enjoy watching straight sexual activities on television or in movies.
With all that I said above, I normally just fast forward through any kind of sex scene in movies. Between that lame Show Girl movie and the battle scenes of Saving Private Ryan, I'd rather watch the battle scenes over and over a kazillion times than having to watch Show Girl.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by subbie, posted 07-12-2008 8:06 PM subbie has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by subbie, posted 07-12-2008 8:30 PM Taz has replied

  
subbie
Member (Idle past 1255 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 7 of 63 (475010)
07-12-2008 8:30 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Taz
07-12-2008 8:22 PM


quote:
If I didn't know any better, I'd say you have a mental disorder.
I don't think you know me well enough to rule out that possibility.
quote:
There is nothing wrong with public show of affection. It certainly does not harm anyone. What's more, WE ALL DO THE SAME THING AT SOME POINT IN OUR LIVES!!!
Absolutely. And, oddly, when I see something like that, there's some part of me that's happy for them that they've found someone they can share that with.
I just don't like to see it.
quote:
With all that I said above, I normally just fast forward through any kind of sex scene in movies. Between that lame Show Girl movie and the battle scenes of Saving Private Ryan, I'd rather watch the battle scenes over and over a kazillion times than having to watch Show Girl.
Well, that's an apples to oranges comparison. Showgirls was a piece of garbage (or so I've heard, never saw the whole thing myself), and Saving Private Ryan was an excellent movie. However, given two movies of equal caliber, the one with more skin in it is the one I'd more likely want a repeat viewing of. Or, to put it another way, just about any film is made better with some nudity. Except, that if it's homosexual men, I probably won't watch that part.

Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Taz, posted 07-12-2008 8:22 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by Taz, posted 07-12-2008 9:22 PM subbie has not replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3292 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 8 of 63 (475011)
07-12-2008 9:22 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by subbie
07-12-2008 8:30 PM


subbie writes:
Except, that if it's homosexual men, I probably won't watch that part.
Recently, we watched a couple gay themed movies on tv. One was The Twilight of the Golds and the other was Kiss Me, Guido. I highly recommend both movies to you guys. Nothing eekie, I promise. They are both very well done films about the lives of gay men and their families.

I'm trying to see things your way, but I can't put my head that far up my ass.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by subbie, posted 07-12-2008 8:30 PM subbie has not replied

  
ramoss
Member (Idle past 612 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 9 of 63 (475012)
07-12-2008 9:38 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by subbie
07-12-2008 7:44 PM


Do you think it might be social conditioning from when you were younger?
I noticed todays youth are much more at ease with the concept from the people of my generation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by subbie, posted 07-12-2008 7:44 PM subbie has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by subbie, posted 07-12-2008 10:27 PM ramoss has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 10 of 63 (475014)
07-12-2008 10:19 PM


Natural Inhibitions For Civilized Cultures.
Recorded human history bears out what is natural and good for the conduct between humans, be it between two men, two women or between man and woman in private and in public. For the most part, sexually related intimate activity appears naturally to be for privacy in civilized human cultures.
Beasts and birds which possess inferior intelligence appear to have no inhibitions in this regard.
Imo, humans, creatures of higher intelligence than the animal and bird kingdoms, were designed with these inhibitions. This is evidence for the Genesis record, which after the fall of man, also states that God required clothing the human body.
The more cultures deviate from what is natural, the more calloused citizens of the culture become to what is good and natural for the good of the culture. Thus the more deviate, primitive, uncivilized and animal-like the culture becomes.
The cannibalistic pagans of uncivilized cultures who practiced human sacrifices etc are examples of what deviancy from what is good, natural and imo, Biblical eventually leads to.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by subbie, posted 07-12-2008 10:24 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 13 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-13-2008 7:47 AM Buzsaw has replied

  
subbie
Member (Idle past 1255 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 11 of 63 (475015)
07-12-2008 10:24 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Buzsaw
07-12-2008 10:19 PM


Re: Natural Inhibitions For Civilized Cultures.
quote:
For the most part, sexually related intimate activity appears naturally to be for privacy in civilized human cultures.
Beasts and birds which possess inferior intelligence appear to have no inhibitions in this regard.
Imo, humans, creatures of higher intelligence than the animal and bird kingdoms, were designed with these inhibitions.
Yes, well, I guess I'm proof against that. I have no inhibitions whatsoever about sharing my intimacy with others, or sharing that of others with them.
Please do try to at least make an attempt at addressing the topic before posting to this thread again. Kay?

Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Buzsaw, posted 07-12-2008 10:19 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by Buzsaw, posted 07-13-2008 10:03 AM subbie has not replied

  
subbie
Member (Idle past 1255 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 12 of 63 (475016)
07-12-2008 10:27 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by ramoss
07-12-2008 9:38 PM


quote:
Do you think it might be social conditioning from when you were younger?
Quite likely.
quote:
I noticed todays youth are much more at ease with the concept from the people of my generation.
That's encouraging. I get somewhat the same impression from my 17 year old son, although I admit it's little more than a vague impression. It's hard to get much more than that from his largely monosyllabic responses to my questions.

Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by ramoss, posted 07-12-2008 9:38 PM ramoss has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by Phat, posted 07-13-2008 8:27 AM subbie has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 285 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 13 of 63 (475055)
07-13-2008 7:47 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by Buzsaw
07-12-2008 10:19 PM


Re: Natural Inhibitions For Civilized Cultures.
Recorded human history bears out what is natural and good for the conduct between humans, be it between two men, two women or between man and woman in private and in public. For the most part, sexually related intimate activity appears naturally to be for privacy in civilized human cultures.
If that's meant to apply to kissing in public (sheesh) it appears that it is Americans who are the odd ones out.
The cannibalistic pagans of uncivilized cultures who practiced human sacrifices etc are examples of what deviancy from what is good, natural and imo, Biblical eventually leads to.
There's plenty of kissing in the Bible.
Jesus writes:
Do you see this woman? I came into your house. You did not give me any water for my feet, but she wet my feet with her tears and wiped them with her hair. You did not give me a kiss, but this woman, from the time I entered, has not stopped kissing my feet.
She kissed Jesus' feet. In public. He praised her for it. Your call.
The cannibalistic pagans of uncivilized cultures who practiced human sacrifices etc are examples of what deviancy from what is good, natural and imo, Biblical eventually leads to.
Ooh, let's talk about the Bible and human sacrifice!
The Bible writes:
At the LORD's command, a man of God from Judah went to Bethel, and he arrived there just as Jeroboam was approaching the altar to offer a sacrifice. Then at the LORD's command, he shouted, "O altar, altar! This is what the LORD says: A child named Josiah will be born into the dynasty of David. On you he will sacrifice the priests from the pagan shrines who come here to burn incense, and human bones will be burned on you." (1 Kings 13:1-2)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Buzsaw, posted 07-12-2008 10:19 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by Buzsaw, posted 07-13-2008 10:30 AM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 14 of 63 (475062)
07-13-2008 8:27 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by subbie
07-12-2008 10:27 PM


Affection, Passion, and Lust.
Taz writes:
If there really is a god then the most important and beautiful gift he gave us is human affection, whether it's gay or straight.
I suppose that people of either gender can do whatever they want to do in public. Apparently they do it in public for a reason, reason being that they want everyone to see their public "affection" although I think it is extreme.
To me, love is better exemplified by older couples who simply stay by each others side and hold hands occasionally. They are much more mature and rational in their love for each other, though it is as deep or deeper than any eros oriented displays of youthful passion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by subbie, posted 07-12-2008 10:27 PM subbie has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by Son Goku, posted 07-13-2008 8:42 AM Phat has replied

  
Son Goku
Inactive Member


Message 15 of 63 (475065)
07-13-2008 8:42 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by Phat
07-13-2008 8:27 AM


Re: Affection, Passion, and Lust.
Not to go to off-topic, but is it actually unusual for people to kiss in public in America? Surely people kissing in parks or on the street is totally standard.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Phat, posted 07-13-2008 8:27 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by Phat, posted 07-13-2008 8:44 AM Son Goku has not replied
 Message 21 by Taz, posted 07-13-2008 10:14 AM Son Goku has not replied
 Message 55 by Hyroglyphx, posted 07-21-2008 5:53 PM Son Goku has replied

  
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