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Author Topic:   Is "Bob & Carol & Ted & Alice" a porn movie?
MangyTiger
Member (Idle past 6440 days)
Posts: 989
From: Leicester, UK
Joined: 07-30-2004


Message 1 of 32 (335426)
07-26-2006 10:46 AM


Over in the thread on Discussion on Creation article... RAZD and BobAliceEve have been having an off-topic disagreement about whether the movie Bob & Carol & Ted & Alice (B&C&T&A from here on in) is a porn movie or not.
It starts pretty much from when BobAliceEve joins the thread in message 36 and RAZD replies in message 38 with:
(I thought it was supposed to be bob and carol and ted and alice ...?)
to which BobAliceEve replies in message 39:
Equating my name to a porn movie is insulting and demeaning. I bet you thought it was humorous?
If you're interested in the arguments each puts forward you can follow the linked messages youself.
Rather than make an off-topic comment in the original thread I created this Coffe House thread to argue whether B&C&T&A is a porn movie or not.
I contend the answer is unequivocally "no".
You could argue it is an adult-themed movie as suggested by the fact it got an 'R' certificate on release back in 1969 ('X' in the UK). This does not make it a porn movie.
If it isn't a porn movie what is it? It can be viewed as a satire:
This stylish satire is a simultaneously poignant and amusing account of radical sexual experimentation, rampant with Nehru jackets, Pucci bikinis, love beads, and psychedelic parties.
Roger Ebert's review from the time in the Chicago Sun-Times doesn't sound like a porno flick:
"Bob & Carol & Ted & Alice" isn't really about wife swapping at all, but about the epidemic of moral earnestness that's sweeping our society right now.
I haven't seen that many porn movies but moral earnestness hasn't really been a theme of any of the ones I have watched
Time Out magazine in London thinks it's a satire:
Mazursky's sharp but sympathetic satire on the Encounter-group mindset and free-love ethos that swept certain areas of Californian life (Hollywood included, of course) in the late '60s.
Other reasons to say it isn't a porn movie:
  • It's been shown on ordinary broadcast TV over here (including the BBC I think) - that doesn't happen with porn movies
  • The cast list - the four leads are all well known mainstream actors and two of them were already established stars before B&C&T&A was made:
    • Natalie Wood - star of the film 'West Side Story', appeared in many other films and TV shows
    • Star of the TV series 'I Spy', appeared in many other films and TV shows
  • The awards:
    • 4 Oscar nominations
    • 2 BAFTA nominations
    • 2 Golden Globe nominations
    • Won the National Society of Film Critics Award, USA for Best Screenplay
    • Won 2 New York Film Critics Circle Awards for Best Screenplay and Best Supporting Actress
    • Won the Writers Guild of America, USA award for Best Comedy Written Directly for the Screen
So BobAliceEve can you still seriously claim that B&C&T&A is a porn movie?
Edited by MangyTiger, : Fix '&E' to '&A'

Oops! Wrong Planet

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Wounded King, posted 07-26-2006 10:52 AM MangyTiger has replied
 Message 3 by jar, posted 07-26-2006 10:57 AM MangyTiger has not replied
 Message 4 by Coragyps, posted 07-26-2006 11:01 AM MangyTiger has not replied
 Message 8 by ringo, posted 07-26-2006 12:43 PM MangyTiger has not replied
 Message 9 by RickJB, posted 07-27-2006 7:32 AM MangyTiger has not replied
 Message 10 by RAZD, posted 07-27-2006 8:26 AM MangyTiger has not replied
 Message 11 by BobAliceEve, posted 08-17-2006 5:52 AM MangyTiger has not replied
 Message 13 by Percy, posted 08-17-2006 8:52 AM MangyTiger has not replied
 Message 22 by BobAliceEve, posted 08-18-2006 6:50 AM MangyTiger has not replied
 Message 25 by BobAliceEve, posted 08-19-2006 9:08 AM MangyTiger has not replied
 Message 30 by BobAliceEve, posted 08-20-2006 8:59 AM MangyTiger has not replied

  
Wounded King
Member (Idle past 119 days)
Posts: 4149
From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Joined: 04-09-2003


Message 2 of 32 (335431)
07-26-2006 10:52 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by MangyTiger
07-26-2006 10:46 AM


B&C&T&E
Shurely shome mistake?
Perhaps you were thinking of 'All about Eve', also not a porn film.
TTFN,
WK

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by MangyTiger, posted 07-26-2006 10:46 AM MangyTiger has replied

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member
Posts: 34064
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 3 of 32 (335433)
07-26-2006 10:57 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by MangyTiger
07-26-2006 10:46 AM


I got to go see it when it (back then I was still going to the movies) first came out and porn it is not. In fact, the reason that it got the 'R' rating was that it had words in it like 'vagina' that at that time were not used in polite company. Frankly, there was far more sexual content in "Ben Hur" or the "10 Commandments".

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 821 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 4 of 32 (335435)
07-26-2006 11:01 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by MangyTiger
07-26-2006 10:46 AM


Other reasons to say it isn't a porn movie:
And no images of penises greater than 25 cm in length, either.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by MangyTiger, posted 07-26-2006 10:46 AM MangyTiger has not replied

Replies to this message:
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MangyTiger
Member (Idle past 6440 days)
Posts: 989
From: Leicester, UK
Joined: 07-30-2004


Message 5 of 32 (335440)
07-26-2006 11:16 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by Wounded King
07-26-2006 10:52 AM


D'oh!

Oops! Wrong Planet

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Belfry
Member (Idle past 5172 days)
Posts: 177
From: Ocala, FL
Joined: 11-05-2005


Message 6 of 32 (335441)
07-26-2006 11:20 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by Coragyps
07-26-2006 11:01 AM


Coragyps writes:
And no images of penises greater than 25 cm in length, either.
No penises shown at all, unless I'm mistaken. Not even full-frontal female nudity. What's porn without gratuitous exposure?
BobAliceEve said:
quote:
porn
n : creative activity (writing or pictures or films etc.) of no literary or artistic value other than to stimulate sexual desire - which certainally describes what extramarital affairs are about, does it not?
So any work that features extramarital affairs qualifies as porn? Does that include the story of David and Bathsheba?
Edited by Belfry, : added link to BAE's post

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capeo
Inactive Member


Message 7 of 32 (335442)
07-26-2006 11:21 AM


I advise anyone who thinks its a porn movie not to rent an actual porn movie. Their heads may explode.
It's certainly a satire, by the way, one that actually champions fidelity.

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 498 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 8 of 32 (335463)
07-26-2006 12:43 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by MangyTiger
07-26-2006 10:46 AM


MangyTiger writes:
It's been shown on ordinary broadcast TV over here....
It's been on ordinary broadcast TV over here, too, not long after it came out. I was young enough and bored enough that I can't imagine anybody considering it "pornography".
jar writes:
... there was far more sexual content in "Ben Hur" or the "10 Commandments".
The Ten Commandments was the first movie I ever saw. I was about five.
MangyTiger writes:
So BobAliceEve can you still seriously claim that B&C&T&A is a porn movie?
Maybe it was the "T&A" that confused them.
Edited by Ringo, : Miss-spelling.

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RickJB
Member (Idle past 5076 days)
Posts: 917
From: London, UK
Joined: 04-14-2006


Message 9 of 32 (335656)
07-27-2006 7:32 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by MangyTiger
07-26-2006 10:46 AM


Not porn. Very good movie though.
Whatever happened to Paul Mazursky? Need to dig out my old copy of Harry And Tonto...
Edited by RickJB, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1491 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 10 of 32 (335672)
07-27-2006 8:26 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by MangyTiger
07-26-2006 10:46 AM


LOL
(oops, I'm told that using LOL is demeaning behavior ... :rolleyes

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BobAliceEve
Member (Idle past 5481 days)
Posts: 107
From: Seattle, WA, USA
Joined: 02-03-2004


Message 11 of 32 (340735)
08-17-2006 5:52 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by MangyTiger
07-26-2006 10:46 AM


Thank you all for your feedback
It is always appreciated. I guess we will have to disagree on this though I can not see why an R/X rating for a movie about sexual relationships would not be sufficient to make it porn in at least intent. Possibly, we can agree that B&C&T&A is soft-porn?
My very best regards to all,
Bob, Alice, and Eve

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Replies to this message:
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1553 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 12 of 32 (340755)
08-17-2006 8:34 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by BobAliceEve
08-17-2006 5:52 AM


Re: Thank you all for your feedback
I guess we will have to disagree on this though I can not see why an R/X rating for a movie about sexual relationships would not be sufficient to make it porn in at least intent.
Um, maybe because it's possible to explore sexual relationships in a work without the intent being to cause someone to masturbate? By your definition, Romeo and Juliet is porn; Othello is porn.
Possibly, we can agree that B&C&T&A is soft-porn?
With little to no nudity? How can it be porn of any kind?

This message is a reply to:
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Percy
Member
Posts: 22621
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 13 of 32 (340760)
08-17-2006 8:52 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by MangyTiger
07-26-2006 10:46 AM


I, too, saw BCT&A when it first came out. It's about a couple who decides that having affairs is good for their marriage, and they try to encourage another couple to engage in wife-swapping. There is no nudity and no bad language.
It was given an R rating in a different time. Today an R rating is a death sentence for a movie, but back then R movies were popular. They were popular because they were good movies that today would be given a PG-13 rating. It was not that many years before BCT&A that WOR radio in New York was sanctioned by the FCC for using the word pregnant on the air. Take the times into account. You'll see far worse on MTV today.
Also, even today an R rating is not porn. Porn is X. And even some X movies are not porn.
The best way to tell that BCT&A isn't porn? Since it's easily available at Blockbuster, find out how many 13-year old boys are renting it. I bet the number is close to 0.
BCT&A is porn! Sheesh! Even the Bible's got worse.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
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subbie
Member (Idle past 1341 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 14 of 32 (340773)
08-17-2006 9:45 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by BobAliceEve
08-17-2006 5:52 AM


Re: Thank you all for your feedback
Possibly, we can agree that B&C&T&A is soft-porn?
Either you have an extraordinarily screwy idea about what soft porn is, or you've never seen B&C&T&A.
Or both.
My money is on both.

Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin

This message is a reply to:
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robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 15 of 32 (340775)
08-17-2006 9:54 AM


"just physical fun"
I recall this movie, and I remember a line from it. One of the wives says to the guy (not her husband), "Let's do it. It's just physical fun."
The conclusion, in which no swapping ever takes place, is meant, I think, to put forth the idea that it's not JUST "physical fun."

  
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