Vaccines and Autism

it was on talk of the nation today, and of course since all the research associated says that there's no link and they only have scientists on all the whackos were out saying they should have had experts from both sides.i really don't want someone on npr that says i shouldn't vaccinate my children because it doesn't actually cause autism but i should get my chakras aligned to prevent whooping cough.anyways.a bunch of people were saying how you have to consider vaccines because you shouldn't rule anything out until you've looked at everything. but there have been a ton of studies demonstrating that there's no greater instances of autism in those who have been vaccinated than haven't.so i thought we could discuss autism and what else might be causing the "increase" in cases.there was an article released last summer that demonstrated that autism is associated with different development in the anxiety centers of the brain.it seems to me that twenty years ago i was called "defiant" as i imagine many higher-functioning autistic kids might be having worked with dozens over the last few years (and having a close friend with asperger's who could just be described as 'wiggly and excitable'). so anyways. i have adhd and potentially some other disorder which is masked by various coping techniques i have developed. my friend with asperger's and i are almost the same exact person. down to the buttons. so maybe it's not that more people have autism and maybe it's not that more people are 'aware' and watching for it, but that we are more willing to attribute "bad behavior" to a disorder than to just being a bad seed.so how about what might be causing it. has anyone looked at other causes? how about prior parental drug use? environmental pollution? we have looked at genetics. most people don't buy that they might be at fault for their own problems. but how about this anxiety thing. what if the onset of autism is contributed to by some traumatic illness. some people whose children seemed to develope autism quickly after vaccination describe severe acute illnesses. what if that might have some contribution to triggering an autistic tendency already there? but if there are more and more cases, what else in human behavior and exposure is being increased? processed foods? formula? smoking?on a side note, our understandings of developmental disorders are still basic in many ways. it seems to me that we may discover that adhd may simply be the alternate brain function and entirely normal. the other option is that it's on that spectrum and simply part of the same bunch as autism and your label is merely based on which symptoms you pulled out of the great galactic hat. having said that, i consider my "symptoms" to be the most valuable parts of my personality. a cat is not a defective dog.

Is there actually an increase? Or is it that disagnoses of autism are simply rising to their natural level as education about autism spectrum disorders spreads among doctors? I think I've heard this described as the "hunter/farmer hypothesis."

hi bren,here in the uk we have had several years of worry as to whether it is 'safe' to give kids a combined mumps, measles and rubella vacination.andrew wakefield (i believe) did the research and drew the conclusions about a causal link between mmr and autism but he has been roundly discredited and evidence has been uncovered (so i believe) that this individual was financially connected with the company that produced the individual vaccines (rather than the combined mmr jab).Alternative to MMR jab 'not safe' | Health | The Guardiani worked for 4 years with 4 young men with asperger's syndrome and autism. i believe you are right with the continuum train of thought as my experience showed me that every behaviour could be seen as an exaggerated or minimised expression of 'normal' behaviour.case in point: one guy (lets call him kieth) had a fascination with maps and walking. he would sit for hours hand drawing ordinance survey maps that looked astounding. so far so ordinary. but this behaviour linked in his love of exploring. he would walk for hours just to explore.this ties in a bit with what crash said about the hunter/farmer hypothesis.keith would get depressed sometimes because he felt he had very little to contribute to society. however, when he saw that his cartographic skills would have been very valuable if he had been born 500 years he would always perk up.so the 'increase' in percieved 'cases' could be from the fact that the skills that 'touch' of asperger's syndrome can give an individual are in less demand in the modern world and this leaves some folk with fewer roles to occupy in society.had kieth been born in 1507 he could have been kings' cartographer by now.as for whats causing it? i was always led to believe they was an association (not causal) with fragile X syndrome so you could take a look at this:Fragile X Syndrome and Autism | Understanding Fragile Xi don'y buy the anxiety angle one bit however.the developing human brain is really fragile. there are so many thing that can damage it's development and cause developmental issues in latter life {as i know personally only too well }.Heavy metals have been implicated as had viral infections in the stomach or bowel (i forget which).this is a good place to start looking around (although some of the links seem to crash my computer!)Page not found - Position1SEOhope it is of some use.

Well, if this is the case, then we'd have to conclude that there is roughly an equal number of adults living now who have autism, except that fewer of those cases have been diagnosed.I believe doctors make a fancy sum whenever they can diagnose someone's bundle o' joy with 'autism,' and have them pumped full of mind-altering drugs to help them 'develope more normally.' You surely must know that the clinics and drug companies make up one great big conspiracy of diagnosis, referral, and check cutting.I wonder how many people here at EvC would've been diagnosed with 'autism' had they been born today, yet we are all living rather productive lives. It's all a scam.Jon

Sure about this, are you?

that's the question. but i think it's a rise in the number of lazy school teachers. because apparently these are the people in charge of who has a mental problem. i think it's simpler than that. people have different personalities.

we used to call these people 'eccentric geniuses' i believe. i was referring to this article. it's not that it's an anxiety disorder per se, but
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5568609 so an early development leads to a mishandling of potentially traumatic input, thus a severe reaction to the vaccination (caused by an ordinary allergy or just fear of injection) could be a trigger, but not the cause.Edited by brennakimi, : No reason given.

thank you for your delightful insight. thanks for solving all of our problems. now go bury your head somewhere before you see someone who actually has autism. it's specifically people like you who make life impossible for those of us with high-functioning neurological issues.

yup. think about the iconic image of the absent minded professor. i recall reading that number of interest fields correlates inversely with intensity of interests.this can be seen in many people; surfers for example. i live near the coast and a few people i know appear to have no interest other than surfing. even to the extent that some socialisation is inhibited. "no, not coming to that, surfs good today."but i would contend is a continuum for every one. many times i have had something going on in my brain that tunes out every one else (even my partner). everything else vanishes from my 'interest array' and i can't imagine doing anything else.

btw, here's a few articles from npr.Cause of Autism Narrowed Down to 100 Genes
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=8926283Author 'Remaps' Notions About Autism
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7496704Autistic Brain Has Difficulty Coordinating
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6284914Asperger Syndrome Explained
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7382362for those who don't know, asperger's is a spectrum disorder (autistic disorders are described as being on a spectrum, hence those stupid rainbow puzzle bumper stickers) which is typified by autistic behaviors in a person of normal to high intelligence. this of course assumes that people with autism have normal to low intelligence. i think many of them just test poorly. i know it's all anecdotal, but so many of my autistic students did just fine when they could respond physically instead of having to respond verbally. i mean, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to swim, but when a teacher tells you that that child will never do anything you ask and he follows precise instructions on the first time...

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I believe doctors make a fancy sum whenever they can diagnose someone's bundle o' joy with 'autism,' and have them pumped full of mind-altering drugs to help them 'develope more normally.'

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What drugs are those, Jon?

Unfortunately, I didn't have to google too hard to find that autistic kids are being prescribed everything from Haldol to Prozac.Autism Treatments - Autism-pdd Nos
http://www.neurologychannel.com/autism/treatment.shtmlThis "it's all a big pharma conspiracy" is crap, tho.

This is a topic that really does hit home: I myself am autistic (PDD)and am obsessive Compulsive.I have heared many a theory as to why autism occurs, anything from Vaccines to television (watching it at an early age, like 1 or 2) to an off-the-wall idea that autism is the next step in our evolution (homo sapiens autism??).I am a high functioning autistic, but I have had problems in my life with it and OCD, and only very late in my life did i start to take meds to help.Autistic people like myself have an unusually engineered brain. Lots of areas are enlarged (Frontal lobes,amygdala, Hippocampus, and cerebellum) while the Corpus Callosum is smaller than in a "normal" brain (May 15 2006 issue of TIME Magazine, page 45). The Autistic brain is heavily overloaded with white matter, called "the Brain's connector Cables" (lbid). "local connections" inside the brain are overnumbered, while "long distance" lines are of short supply (lbid).I agree with Brannakimi in that just as she values her symptoms, I value my symptoms. I wouldn't have it any other way. It's a sole part of me.

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"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

well. the last big evolutionary step in humans was neurological and if more autistic people (or people with other issues) are capable of living 'normal' lives and reproducing, it could lead eventually to a cumulative change for the mass of humanity. our society is getting to focus so much on work and so little on social interaction (except through devices like internet and telephone) that a cumpulsive brain with reduced social impulses like that in spectrum brains may be a better fit for our new world. so it's not really that far out there.

I believe that there is a website that tries to connect Neanderthals and autistic people in some way. I'll try to find it again and post it.Edited by LudoRephaim, : No reason given.

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"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4