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Author | Topic: Bush vs. Gore in energy consumption | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
riVeRraT Member (Idle past 416 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
FACT CHECK: A Tale of Two Houses
You've probably already seen this, but I haven't, and found it amusing.
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Taz Member (Idle past 3291 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: |
Cool! I wonder if the location of each of the houses house is a contributing factor in their energy consumption. For example, I know for a fact that my relatives in Southern California have no central heating system at all, and their house isn't completely enclosed like ours so they don't have an air conditioner either.
Disclaimer: Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style. He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes!
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1467 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
Hey, more conservative misinformation. What a surprise!
I notice your article omits the fact that while Gore's house uses only electricity generated without carbon or combustion (which is why the bill is so high), Bush's house uses electricity generated solely by combustion. Moreover, while Bush's house was designed from the ground up to be eco-friendly, Gore's house is many decades old and as such, is much more difficult to make "eco-friendly" than a house designed from scratch to be so. Al Gore's house consumes less power than others of the same size in the same area. The Snopes article, of course, misrepresents the big electricity bill as a symptom of being wasteful, rather than the truth - it costs a lot more to buy "green", carbon-free energy than the regular energy that heats Bush's ranch mansion. Moreover, Gore buys carbon credits to offset his carbon use. Can you show any evidence of Bush doing the same thing? No? Didn't think so.
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1467 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
Oh, and of course, I love this part:
quote: According to Media Matters, this conservative hit piece was parroted without rebuttal by Tucker Carlson on MSNBC, Lou Dobbs on CNN, Glenn Beck on CNN, Sean Hannity on Fox, an article on ABCNews.com, and reported in the Washington Times, the LA Times, and even on NPR. NPR! (Your "liberal media" at work, folks.) It's recently found its way into C. Krauthammer's column in Time, even. Wow, RR! It's like you hit two myths at the same time - the myth of liberal environmental hypocrisy and the myth of a duplicitous "liberal" media. Edited by crashfrog, : No reason given.
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Zhimbo Member (Idle past 6011 days) Posts: 571 From: New Hampshire, USA Joined: |
about this:
quote: Actually, Gore's house is in a part of the country that has some of the most severe requirements due to climate, featuring both cold winters and hot summers: "The Gores live in the East South-Central climate region that has the highest per-household energy usage of any region in the country as reported by CBS News and AP. It is about 50% higher, and is caused by a combination of cold winters and hot, muggy summers. However, due to energy conservation improvements, the Gores’ per-square-foot energy use is 19.1 kwh, less than the region’s average of 19.83 kwh."
link The email also ignores that the home is also a place of business for both of the Gores, and has security technology and security staff on site, and neglects to mention all the technology put in place to conserve energy (despite documenting in great detail the parallel information for Bush's play-ranch) It's true that millionaire Bush's custom, little-used play-ranch, was designed to be more energy-efficient than the Gore family home that has been passed through the generations, though. Duh.
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1343 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
crash, you should write snopes. they're not usually wrong, and people rely on them to be right about these kinds of things.
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1467 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
crash, you should write snopes. they're not usually wrong Their page makes it pretty clear that they're perfectly happy to tell a half-truth. Indeed, it's true that Bush's house uses a lot less power in a year than Gore's. Because Bush's house is only occupied for one or two months out of the year, while Gore's house is a year-round residence that also serves as business offices for many people. It looks like Snopes is a lot more interested in being true in the letter than in being true in message. Well, fuck 'em.
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1343 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
Their page makes it pretty clear that they're perfectly happy to tell a half-truth. snopes is the highest regarded debunker of chainmail, internet rumors, and general urban legends on web. i've been reading them for years, and they quite commonly rule things as "half truth." i have never noticed anything -- except for this one article -- that could be considered biased in any way. so i'm inclined to believe it's a mistake, or they've been duped as well. write them with your information, and see what they say. Edited by arachnophilia, : No reason given.
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subbie Member (Idle past 1254 days) Posts: 3509 Joined: |
crash, it's so amusing to watch your knee jerk reactions.
You first try to defend Gore by pointing out that he pays more because he uses green sources. Irrelevant to the facts as reported by the Associated Press.
quote: This says nothing about the costs of the energy Gore uses, simply the amount. You also try to brush it off by saying that Bush's house isn't used year-round. Again irrelevant since the comparision given is between Gore's house and the average house in Nashville. Moreover, as they point out, his energy usage is 12 times the average despite the fact that the house is only four times the size of the average American home. Finally, you slam Snopes for being "more interested in being true in the letter than being true in the message." What are you saying here, mate? Folks should only report facts about your favorite politico if they reflect well on him? Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat
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Zhimbo Member (Idle past 6011 days) Posts: 571 From: New Hampshire, USA Joined: |
" his energy usage is 12 times the average despite the fact that the house is only four times the size of the average American home." What the heck does the "average" home have to do with this? Gore's home is the place of business for two adults, has full time staff working in it, and has high security requirements. It's total B.S. to compare it to the average home (which includes single people living in apartments who are gone most of the day, for example). The reason this thing is a hit piece is because it leaves out the crucial context that would allow you to make a reasonable comparison between the two homes. That's just as misleading as if the facts included were wrong. A prime example is what I gave in my previous message: it says the home is in "the South", implicating that it shouldn't have much in the way of climate-related energy requirements. It neglects to mention that the part of "the South" it is in has some of the most extreme annual weather fluctuations in the country. Edited by Zhimbo, : No reason given.
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nator Member (Idle past 2169 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Physician, heal thyself. I'd appreciate responses to Message 48 and Message 50 in this thread, if you would be so kind.
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subbie Member (Idle past 1254 days) Posts: 3509 Joined: |
Actually, the Snopes piece refers to another Snopes piece that does explain that. But I guess some folks were too busy knee-jerking to notice that.
Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat
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Zhimbo Member (Idle past 6011 days) Posts: 571 From: New Hampshire, USA Joined: |
1. This thread is primarily about the hit-piece, not Snopes.
2. You have to link and search on Snopes for the info, which most people who are simply checking for accuracy will not do. But, you do agree that the email is misleading, then?
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1467 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
Again irrelevant since the comparision given is between Gore's house and the average house in Nashville. The average house in Nashville isn't offices for several people. I notice that, like the AP, you completely ignore this point.
What are you saying here, mate? Folks should only report facts about your favorite politico if they reflect well on him? I'm saying that it's dirty pool to report half-truths that obscure, rather than clarify, the situation. You know, like you just did.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 416 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
Actually, the Snopes piece refers to another Snopes piece that does explain that. But I guess some folks were too busy knee-jerking to notice that. Thank you for pointing that out. That raises some questions now, doesn't it? And I commend Bush for getting geo-thermal, as I install those systems myself. Everything is relative, but the point is, that Bush is not the one making global warming videos. If Gore was really that concerned, he could easily have geothermal, combined with solar energy, and possible a wind tower. These things combined with tax breaks, and low cost governement loans, practically pay for themsleves. One must lead by setting an example, and Gore is not that guy. He is not a leader. Very few politicians are. That does not make his movie any less concerning to us.
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