D&D and satanisim

Desdemona,
Please see my welcome to you here.Please keep your statements on topic. If you wish to discuss how atheists love sin or loose morals, please take it to a thread in Faith and Belief. This topic is concerned with D&D and satanism. Do you wish to discuss D&D and a possible tie in to Satanism?

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AdminAsgara
Queen of the Universe

Dungeon, Dragon, and Polyhedron did Dark Sun in their May issues, for what that's worth. And, as far as WotC is concerned, those magazines are official, so that's the closest to official Dark Sun material that you'll get.

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Ia! Cthulhu fhtagn!Proudly Google-Bombing Kent Hovind's website Idiot

I guess I was temporarily out of it for a time. Please accept my apology to you.

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Desdamona*

I've never played Dungeons and Dragons, but I've seen it being played on PC and I've read rants and raves about it being evil.Maybe it is sort of a sin to roleplay using 'black magick' and all that stuff considering it is real(though not magical at all) but it's JUST YOUR IMAGINATION. As long as you don't get so into it that you believe it's really happening or want to REALLY get into magick then I think you'll be okay. And even if the black mage thing would bother somebody, who says you can't play as some sort of Holy Warrior that believes in the Christian diety?Now, as some people might know I enjoy bashing role-playing games just because I can make jokes about them... but they're NOT evil unless it's a game where you play as an allegorical 'Satan' or 'demon'
with the objective to destroy an allegorical 'heaven'. But as far as I know even if you play as an 'evil character in most role-players you're battling a source of evil. A few rays of hope (only 2 or 3 individuals) fighting through hordes of evil and triumphing in the end sounds good to me.Anybody else have thoughts on this?EDITED IN:Lord of the Rings has wizards like Gandalf and is fantasy in every aspect. Yet it's NOT some allegory of Christianity and everyone considers it so Christian appropriate because good triumphs over evil. So why is Dungeons and Dragons any different?[This message has been edited by Born2Preach, 04-10-2004]

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Wanna feel God? Step onto the wrestling mat and you'd be crazy to deny the uplifting spirit.

I think you nailed it. You get from the games, what you put into them.

Anyone looking to the Player's Handbook as some kind of occult manual is looking to be sorely disappointed. Here's a typical arcane spell:

quote:

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Magic Missle

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Evocation {Force}
Level Sor/Wiz 1
Components V,S
Casting Time 1 action
Range Medium
Targets: Up to five creatures, no two of which can be more than 15 ft. apart
Duration Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes

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A missle of magical energy darts forth from your fingertip and unerringly strikes it's target. The missle deals 1d4+1 points of damage.

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...

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I imagine that the Christian God (Yaweh, the Lamb God, the Fisher of Men) would be Lawful Good, and administer the domains Law, Good, Healing, and Protection. His favored weapon would be the whip (used by Jesus to clear the temple) and his sigil would be the Cross, obviously. I don't know why any of the fantasy genre, which is more or less all based on Tolkien, would be any different. What's the difference between Gandalf or Merlin and Harry Potter?

The christian that thinks someone that plays D&D is a 'satanists by proxy' doesn't have to look far into a D&D manual to be convinced that it does not glorify Jesus. The artwork alone is enough. This is the standard by which they judge most works. Even a christian who is not overly zealous might understandably have a problem with D&D. I have never played or seen, (15+ years playing) a game where God of the bible was the only god and there was only one heaven, one hell, etc. (Those campaigns might be out there but I have yet to see one.) Realize, with some fundies if its not about God its not godly, therefore it must be worldly which means its satanic.
D&D is an easy target, just like evolution and secular music. No "God" involed = Satan. And I don't know if it does have a place in a christian's walk with God.

WOW! That's a very interesting point of view!So essentially everything in the world = satan, if god is not directly involved. Or are we talking about only human things?Because I would imagine that nature != satan. I mean, nature, even though it does not directly involve god, supposedly glorifys him as it is soposedly his creation.I would imagine that your point of view, or at least the christians you are commenting on, see anything MAN made that does not involve god as being satanic. So bascicaly everything we make must involve god or it is evil.Am I on the right track there?BTW, as for the D&D artwork, most of it fetures characters doing things, creatures, battles, etc. The evil guys are drawn doing evil things, the good guys, good things. But a vast majority of the art is pretty neutral, serving to make a visual impression in the mind of the reader as to how the worlds described look.What is satanic about this?

Can we presume that you believe the Bible to be Satanic, then? After all the point of the Old Testament is not that God is the only God, just that he's the biggest one. (If you missed that, there's a few passages you need to read a little more closely.) Well, fuck, by this reasoning, neither does anything you're not doing in a church. Walkin in a park? Satanism, if you're not doing it for God. Helping your mom take out the trash? Satanism, if you're doing it for her and not for God.It's just a game. You play it in fellowship with your friends. Isn't fellowship something Christians are supposed to seek?[This message has been edited by crashfrog, 04-10-2004]

Appreciate the tip, tentacled one. I'll take this as a sign that I'll be eaten first.Ia! Cthulhu fhtagn!

Cthulu for Prez, 2004!!!
Why Choose the Lesser Evil?This message brought to you by the people for a chaotic tommorow.ps. I apoligize for the random post.

Perhaps I used too broad a brush but I can only describe the christians I've encountered that have a problem with AD&D. These tend to be the "Matt 6:23-24" crowd (can't serve two masters, etc,etc...) who take a position of its God against Satan in a struggle for our souls. They belive that all things should glorify God or at least not dwell on occult or satanic thought/images. Have you never met these types of christians? These are the ones that have a problem with D&D, Evercrack, dancing....insert your own "worldly pasttime" here. I know plenty of christians that don't care or even know about D&D. They see it as just a game, which I agree with btw.I find it funny that people are bewildered by these christians reaction to D&D. I mean, lets talk about a real campaign and put yourself in the shoes of a christian who sees this constant battle mentioned above.I have never run a game where all the players were lawful good (might be interesting but how boring refusing the reward everytime). Most are LE, TN or CG at best. Players have murdered, stolen, summoned deamons, slayed men, elves, dwarfs, etc. I can see a fundy running screaming from the room and sticking you on a gossi..ummm I mean pray list for months to come. Sure its your imagination but come on, these individuals activly try to curb their thoughts of anger/evil. How can they be shown that acting out a chaotic evil thief that backstabs innocents in an alleyway is good, wholesome fun?I've had one christian that agreed to sit in on a session after critizing D&D and he was uneasy with the occult situation but agreed a WWII or even a robotech campaign might be more to his liking. What are other people's experiance with inviting critics to play?As for the art...my 1st ed. AD&D DM manual has a 20' demon carrying a half naked girl while a wizard prepares a spell. You gotta know this is going to offend some people and give them an immediant impression. Sure but again, players can be those evil guys doing evil things and I think this is what fundies have a problem with.

Cool!Anyone ever played the computer RPG set in that world called "Dark Sun-Shattered Lands"?

The same thing happened with "Harry Potter". It was declared "satanic" when it was just a book. The Bible is full of accounts of Socery, magic, demons and devils....reckon is it "Satanic" too?Nobody ever had a bloody crusade and killed thousands over a game of D&D gone awry or a dispute over "Harry Potters lightening scar, mark of the beast or instrument of the lord"...that I'm aware of.

HELL YA SCHRAF!I LOVE shatterd lands. I adore it. Its probably the best D&D based game ever, maybe coming a close second to Baldurs Gate II. But anyone who has playd shatterd lands can easely see the similarity between it and the BGII game engine.Heck, Im tempted to say that BGII uses a modernized Dark Sun engine.I still have shatterd lands on my hard drive and play it from time to time, along with another forgoten CRPG gem, Darklands. The Dark Sun sequel though, Wake of the Ravager, sucked.