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Author Topic:   How did it start?
Jackal25
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 10 (94197)
03-23-2004 5:50 PM


I am new first off so be nice.
If people believe in evolution then they must believe in how the first living creature was put on earth. What facts are there of how the first creature showed up on earth. I mean all I read on this forum is "where is the fact, where is the fact", so I am going to do it too. I personally believe God created everything and I am interested in how you believe that it all started.Im sure that this has been brought up, but it isnt the easiest thing to find where it is posted. If you know just let me know you dont have to respond.

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Chiroptera, posted 03-23-2004 5:57 PM Jackal25 has replied
 Message 7 by :æ:, posted 03-23-2004 6:26 PM Jackal25 has not replied

Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 10 (94201)
03-23-2004 5:57 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Jackal25
03-23-2004 5:50 PM


God created the first prokaryote cell ex nihilo three and a half billion years ago. That cell then reproduced and evolution is the process that explains the diversity that arose after that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Jackal25, posted 03-23-2004 5:50 PM Jackal25 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Jackal25, posted 03-23-2004 6:07 PM Chiroptera has replied
 Message 4 by 1.61803, posted 03-23-2004 6:08 PM Chiroptera has not replied

Jackal25
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 10 (94208)
03-23-2004 6:07 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Chiroptera
03-23-2004 5:57 PM


So you believe in God and evolution?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Chiroptera, posted 03-23-2004 5:57 PM Chiroptera has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by Darwin Storm, posted 03-23-2004 6:20 PM Jackal25 has replied
 Message 6 by Chiroptera, posted 03-23-2004 6:23 PM Jackal25 has not replied

1.61803
Member (Idle past 1504 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 4 of 10 (94209)
03-23-2004 6:08 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Chiroptera
03-23-2004 5:57 PM


Concise Batman Do you happen to know if there is any supporting fossil evidence for this organism?

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Darwin Storm
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 10 (94215)
03-23-2004 6:20 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Jackal25
03-23-2004 6:07 PM


Jackel, the vast majority of people who accept TOE on its merits, in the US and Europe, do believe in some form of god. Scientific principles are not guided by religious beliefs, but by evidence and successful models. It is important to note that less than 10% of western population is considered atheist ( in some areas, its far lower). Therefore, religious beliefs and and acceptance of scientific princples doesn't seem to be a problem, unless one's religious beliefs are based literally on the bible, at which point there is a conflict. The conflict arises because a literal interpretation of the bible conflicts with all areas of modern science.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Jackal25, posted 03-23-2004 6:07 PM Jackal25 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by Jackal25, posted 03-23-2004 6:32 PM Darwin Storm has not replied

Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 10 (94218)
03-23-2004 6:23 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Jackal25
03-23-2004 6:07 PM


No, that was a joke. In regards to your opening statement:
quote:
If people believe in evolution then they must believe in how the first living creature was put on earth.
This is obviously true. Everyone believe that the first living creature came from some where. But there is a common logical fallacy that if scientists cannot prove purely naturalistic abiogenesis then evolution must be false. This is a fallacy because there is ample evidence in favor of common descent of all species through natural selection, regardless of how life did originally arise. If a creationist wants to dispute the theory of evolution, critiquing abiogenesis is barking up the wrong tree; the creationist must deal with the actual evidence that supports evolution of life after it arose, however it did arise.
Second, no one has the exact mechanism or pathway that life arose. But various aspects of it pose no conceptual problems. As in all science there are unanswered questions, but the major pieces are pretty much in place. It is mostly now a question of figuring out the various details of the proposed pathways, and deciding which pathway is the most plausible.
Sadly, early organic chemistry probably didn't fossilize, so even when scientists do come up with a working, detailed scenario, there will be no way to tell if that scenario is indeed the one that life did take.

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:æ: 
Suspended Member (Idle past 7185 days)
Posts: 423
Joined: 07-23-2003


Message 7 of 10 (94221)
03-23-2004 6:26 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Jackal25
03-23-2004 5:50 PM


Jackal25 writes:
If people believe in evolution then they must believe in how the first living creature was put on earth.
Not true. Biological evolution is a process that operates on living organisms, but it matters not one whit how the first living organism got here -- if it even "got here" at all. That being the case, persons can believe in evolution and totally lack a belief with regard to how life began..
I personally believe God created everything and I am interested in how you believe that it all started.
I personally don't believe there to be any fundamental difference between "living" and "non-living" matter. Thus, there was simply a point where lumps of matter began a physical process that we as humans call "life." Much like the way water began the water cycle, other forms of matter began the cycle of life.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Jackal25, posted 03-23-2004 5:50 PM Jackal25 has not replied

Jackal25
Inactive Member


Message 8 of 10 (94223)
03-23-2004 6:32 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Darwin Storm
03-23-2004 6:20 PM


Thanks for your reply Darwin, I am just trying to learn as much as I can as I dont know much. I was just trying to understand how atheist believe that it all started. I guess since I have always just known in my heart that God was the creator its hard for me to comprehind that an atheist could believe something else. I mean I have no right to say they are wrong because like this forum brings up a lot, some people need cold hard facts to believe something or they wont, and who am I to say I have these facts. I just apreciate any help I can get in trying to understand where everyone is coming from.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Darwin Storm, posted 03-23-2004 6:20 PM Darwin Storm has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by Chiroptera, posted 03-23-2004 6:39 PM Jackal25 has not replied

Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 10 (94226)
03-23-2004 6:39 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Jackal25
03-23-2004 6:32 PM


I should also add that an atheist, and many agnostics and theists, are not afraid to simply say, "I don't know". That seems to be an answer that some Christians don't like very much.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Jackal25, posted 03-23-2004 6:32 PM Jackal25 has not replied

Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3974
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 10 of 10 (94242)
03-23-2004 8:02 PM


Thread copied to the How did it start? thread in the Origin of Life forum, this copy of the thread has been closed.

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