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Author Topic:   'Dinosaur Planet'
Andya Primanda
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 9 (92026)
03-12-2004 3:17 AM


Just saw the premier of 'Dinosaur Planet' series on Discovery last weekend. Was the series supposed to be a continuation of 'Walking with Dinosaurs'?
Anyway, the first feature is about Velociraptor. And it swept away the killer raptor image I have from the first Jurassic Park... Why do they have to attach feathers to Velociraptor? First, it isn't even supported by fossil evidence, and second, it made the raptors look like dog-sized chickens!!
I want my Jurassic Park raptors back! Not carnivorous chickens!

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by mark24, posted 03-12-2004 8:38 AM Andya Primanda has not replied
 Message 3 by Dr Jack, posted 03-12-2004 9:09 AM Andya Primanda has replied
 Message 4 by Cthulhu, posted 03-12-2004 2:14 PM Andya Primanda has replied

  
mark24
Member (Idle past 5218 days)
Posts: 3857
From: UK
Joined: 12-01-2001


Message 2 of 9 (92055)
03-12-2004 8:38 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Andya Primanda
03-12-2004 3:17 AM


Andya,
I was skeptical about that, there was another program which showed a herbivorous therapod with feathers. Are they getting carried away with themselves?
Mark

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Andya Primanda, posted 03-12-2004 3:17 AM Andya Primanda has not replied

  
Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.4


Message 3 of 9 (92062)
03-12-2004 9:09 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Andya Primanda
03-12-2004 3:17 AM


I want my Jurassic Park raptors back! Not carnivorous chickens!
(The film version of) Jurassic Park's Velociraptors were much closer to Deinochyus - having the same bosy size and head shape. Interestingly there is some evidence Velociraptors gave birth to live young!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Andya Primanda, posted 03-12-2004 3:17 AM Andya Primanda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by Andya Primanda, posted 03-15-2004 2:37 AM Dr Jack has replied

  
Cthulhu
Member (Idle past 5874 days)
Posts: 273
From: Roe Dyelin
Joined: 09-09-2003


Message 4 of 9 (92082)
03-12-2004 2:14 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Andya Primanda
03-12-2004 3:17 AM


Feather dinosaurs are supported by the fossil record. We have Sinosauropteryx, which is a basal coelurosaur, making it extremely likely that dromaeosaurs, therizinosaurs, and oviraptorids were feathered. We even have feathered members of those clades.
In fact, a specimen of Psittacosaurus, a basal ceratopian, has been discovered with integument, making it likely that this is a basal trait of Dinosauria.

Ia! Cthulhu fhtagn!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Andya Primanda, posted 03-12-2004 3:17 AM Andya Primanda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by Andya Primanda, posted 03-15-2004 2:44 AM Cthulhu has replied

  
Andya Primanda
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 9 (92525)
03-15-2004 2:37 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Dr Jack
03-12-2004 9:09 AM


I have heard of both Deinonychus and Velociraptor, but I am rather confusing the two. As I recall it one was human-sized and the other was smaller, but which is which?
And Velociraptors bearing live young? What kind of evidence have they found? This might hurt those who think raptors begat birds though.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Dr Jack, posted 03-12-2004 9:09 AM Dr Jack has replied

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Andya Primanda
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 9 (92526)
03-15-2004 2:44 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by Cthulhu
03-12-2004 2:14 PM


The third and fourth episode was aired last night, and in the third episode (raptor stranded on the island of dwarfs) the raptor and the Troodons were covered in... fur. That, IMO, is much more credible, rather than the chicken-like velociraptors.
I have seen photos of Sinosauropteryx, and I agree that it may have been covered in fur. But not feathers as in bird feathers. Were not all supposed 'bird-feathered' dinosaurs turn out to be birds?
And I'd like to see that furred/feathered Psittacosaurus.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Cthulhu, posted 03-12-2004 2:14 PM Cthulhu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by Cthulhu, posted 03-15-2004 2:10 PM Andya Primanda has replied

  
Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.4


Message 7 of 9 (92530)
03-15-2004 5:02 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Andya Primanda
03-15-2004 2:37 AM


I have heard of both Deinonychus and Velociraptor, but I am rather confusing the two. As I recall it one was human-sized and the other was smaller, but which is which?
Deinonychus (is that the correct spelling, I can never remember) is the larger of the two. It also has a more rounded 'face', and generally looked like the ones in JP. Velociraptors were smaller, and had more elongated 'faces'.
And Velociraptors bearing live young? What kind of evidence have they found? This might hurt those who think raptors begat birds though.
I think it's specific to the genus, and I don't believe anyone has claimed Velociraptor as a the specific ancestor of birds? I thought they were simply thought to have descended from the smaller end of the Therapod group in general. In terms of evidence I don't actually know much about it, I'm afraid - it was a two line comment in an encylopedia of dinosaurs I had. As I understand it the hip and pelvic bones of female skeletons they have found appear to show evidence of a birth canal - it is a fairly old book though and I haven't seen or heard anything about it since.

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 Message 5 by Andya Primanda, posted 03-15-2004 2:37 AM Andya Primanda has not replied

  
Cthulhu
Member (Idle past 5874 days)
Posts: 273
From: Roe Dyelin
Joined: 09-09-2003


Message 8 of 9 (92598)
03-15-2004 2:10 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Andya Primanda
03-15-2004 2:44 AM


None of the feathered dinosaurs turned out to be birds. In fact, some supposed birds turned out not to be. Plus, Sinosauropteryx has feathers, not fur. The feathers resemble down.

Ia! Cthulhu fhtagn!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Andya Primanda, posted 03-15-2004 2:44 AM Andya Primanda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by Andya Primanda, posted 03-16-2004 10:48 PM Cthulhu has not replied

  
Andya Primanda
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 9 (92845)
03-16-2004 10:48 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Cthulhu
03-15-2004 2:10 PM


quote:
None of the feathered dinosaurs turned out to be birds.
Terry D. Jones showed that Caudipteryx' body construction resembles more like those of birds than dinosaurs
Quote from here:
http://www.findarticles.com/...158/65301566/p1/article.jhtml
Jones contends it's unlikely that Caudipteryx's ancestors would have abandoned a body structure and style of walking that proved successful among all other bipedal dinosaurs. Instead, he says, the most likely explanation for the animal's distinct body proportions is that Caudipteryx is a bird that for some reason lost the ability to fly. Says Jones: "It's almost ludicrous to think that this animal reorganized its body so that it could run like a bird."
and the original paper in Nature :
Nature 406, 716 - 718 (2000); doi:10.1038/35021041
Cursoriality in bipedal archosaurs
TERRY D. JONES*, JAMES O. FARLOW, JOHN A. RUBEN*, DONALD M. HENDERSON & WILLEM J. HILLENIUS
* Zoology Department, Oregon State University, Corvallis, Oregon 97331, USA
Department of Geosciences, Indiana-Purdue University, Fort Wayne, Indiana 46805, USA
Department of Cell Biology and Anatomy, School of Medicine, The Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore, Maryland 21205, USA
Biology Department, College of Charleston , Charleston, South Carolina 29424, USA
Present address: Department of Biology, Stephen F. Austin State University, Nachogdoches, Texas 75962, USA.
Modern birds have markedly foreshortened tails and their body mass is centred anteriorly, near the wings. To provide stability during powered flight, the avian centre of mass is far from the pelvis, which poses potential balance problems for cursorial birds. To compensate, avians adapted to running maintain the femur subhorizontally, with its distal end situated anteriorly, close to the animal's centre of mass; stride generation stems largely from parasagittal rotation of the lower leg about the knee joint. In contrast, bipedal dinosaurs had a centre of mass near the hip joint and rotated the entire hindlimb during stride generation. Here we show that these contrasting styles of cursoriality are tightly linked to longer relative total hindlimb length in cursorial birds than in bipedal dinosaurs. Surprisingly, Caudipteryx , described as a theropod dinosaur, possessed an anterior centre of mass and hindlimb proportions resembling those of cursorial birds. Accordingly, Caudipteryx probably used a running mechanism more similar to that of modern cursorial birds than to that of all other bipedal dinosaurs. These observations provide valuable clues about cursoriality in Caudipteryx , but may also have implications for interpreting the locomotory status of its ancestors.

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