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Author Topic:   The Second Trump Presidency
Taq
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Posts: 10456
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 6.2


(3)
Message 781 of 847 (922907)
04-15-2025 12:44 PM
Reply to: Message 780 by Tangle
04-15-2025 12:25 PM


Tangle writes:
I see the Orange Idiot is now trying to destroy your Universities. I'd say a new low, but really, it's just a new day, tomorrow will bring more and lower.
Yeah, it's Authoritarianism 101. Use the powers of the office, legally or illegally, to punish anyone that disagrees with you. Kudos to Harvard for sticking up for their constitutional rights.
"“No government – regardless of which party is in power – should dictate what private universities can teach, whom they can admit and hire, and which areas of study and inquiry they can pursue,” Garber said."
. . .
"“He is violating the First Amendment rights of universities and faculty by demanding that if universities want to keep this money, they have to suppress our speech and change what we teach and how we study,” Bowie said."
https://www.cnn.com/...ard-rejects-policy-changes/index.html

This message is a reply to:
 Message 780 by Tangle, posted 04-15-2025 12:25 PM Tangle has not replied

  
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1502
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008
Member Rating: 6.7


(1)
Message 782 of 847 (922908)
04-15-2025 12:58 PM
Reply to: Message 780 by Tangle
04-15-2025 12:25 PM


I love the poorly educated . . .
Tang writes:
the Orange Idiot is now trying to destroy your Universities.
Of course . . .

This message is a reply to:
 Message 780 by Tangle, posted 04-15-2025 12:25 PM Tangle has not replied

  
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4101
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 8.5


(2)
Message 783 of 847 (922909)
04-15-2025 1:16 PM
Reply to: Message 780 by Tangle
04-15-2025 12:25 PM


It's going to be pretty hard to reach a "new low" from disappearing people off the streets and shipping them to a torture prison with no due process. First immigrants who suddenly get their legal status revoked on a totally arbitrary basis, and now "accidentally" US citizens with directly admitted plans to intentionally include US citizens in the near future. With no due process, it's a matter of accusation - the Trump goons accuse, and you get abducted by masked men off the street and sent to the torture prison without recourse, no access to a lawyer, no trial, no judges, just forced onto a plane and sent to die slowly.
It'll get worse as they scale up the program, but we're fully into Nazi territory here without hyperbole. CECOT is an extermination camp. The Nazis called their roundups "deportations" too. All that remains is scale and expanding the target list, which Trump himself has already said they plan to do. "Home-grown terrorist" just means "anyone the Trump admin accuses with no opportunity for defense." Kiss his rancid loaded diaper or you get accused and disappeared.
Nothing is uglier than this. Nothing can be uglier than this.

-->“The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it.” - Francis Bacon

"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - John Rogers

“A world that can be explained even with bad reasons is a familiar world. But, on the other hand, in a universe suddenly divested of illusions and lights, man feels an alien, a stranger. His exile is without remedy since he is deprived of the memory of a lost home or the hope of a promised land. This divorce between man and his life, the actor and his setting, is properly the feeling of absurdity.” – Albert Camus

"...the pious hope that by combining numerous little turds of variously tainted data, one can obtain a valuable result; but in fact, the outcome is merely a larger than average pile of shit." - Barash, David 1995...

"Many that live deserve death. And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice, fearing for your own safety. Even the wise cannot see all ends." - Gandalf, J. R. R. Tolkien: The Lord Of the Rings

"The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death."
1 Corinthians 15:26King James Version (KJV)

-->Nihil supernum --> -->


This message is a reply to:
 Message 780 by Tangle, posted 04-15-2025 12:25 PM Tangle has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 23342
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 6.1


(1)
Message 784 of 847 (922910)
04-15-2025 2:20 PM
Reply to: Message 767 by marc9000
04-14-2025 8:30 PM


marc9000 writes:
And Trump can UN-ISSUE that exemption anytime he wants, in response to the reactions to that exemption. He really does still hold the cards.
Trump only holds all the cards in the way that an infant holds all the cards. There's no study, no analysis, no planning, just eating and smiling, crying and pooping, and everyone else has to deal with the ramifications.
Of course, infants usually grow into responsible adults. Usually.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 767 by marc9000, posted 04-14-2025 8:30 PM marc9000 has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 23342
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 6.1


(1)
Message 785 of 847 (922911)
04-15-2025 5:06 PM
Reply to: Message 768 by marc9000
04-14-2025 8:41 PM


Re: Tariff's Already Taking Effect
marc9000 writes in Message 768:
When the tax affects the lower income people more than the billionaires, you bet we don't like it.
How about when, on his first day in office, Biden closed the Keystone XL pipeline, and throughout his entire term, blocked new oil exploration and drilling?
This subthread is about tariffs, which are a tax that affects the poor much more than the rich. Tariffs have nothing to do with the environmental concerns that led Biden to cancel the permit for the extension to the Keystone pipeline, nor with the climate concerns that led him to encourage a shift toward green energy. You keep drifting off topic. If you want to discuss Biden administration actions then The Biden Presidency is the thread you want.
When trucking invoices, and invoices from countless thousands of businesses that need 7mpg tractor trailers to ship their products have a "fuel surcharge" on them, who do you think paid those surcharges in the end? But Biden caused it, the mainstream media didn't sensationalize it, and you didn't seem to mind too much.
Again, this is about the Biden administration. If you want to discuss this over at The Biden Presidency then you're probably going to have to fill in the blanks. I don't think anyone knows what you're referring to, though diesel prices did spike worldwide after the Russian invasion of Ukraine.
There was a battle in today's congress recently. The Dems got the House into a voice vote of raising the actual tax rates. They started with $400,000. Every Democrat said let's raise it and every Repugnant said No! Then they raised it to a higher number and recast the vote again. Same result. The kept increasing the number and eventually got up to a billion and still all Dems said Yes and still every single Repugnant said No.
There have also been one or more votes lately on Trump's "no taxes on tips" proposal.
This is not at all related to the point you're responding to, which described how Republicans in the House refused to raise tax rates no matter how high the income level.
Concerns about the "no taxes on tips" proposal revolve around how well the bill's language would prevent the reclassifying of what we would normally consider non-tip income as tips, and about the special minimum wage limit for tip-earners.
But tip income aside, the tax brackets are already set too high for low wage earners. Someone earning $40,000 a year still pays $2800 in taxes when to me it feels like it should be more like $0. Why is the government taking money from people who could at best be described as scraping along?
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 768 by marc9000, posted 04-14-2025 8:41 PM marc9000 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 837 by marc9000, posted 04-27-2025 9:13 PM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 23342
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 6.1


(1)
Message 786 of 847 (922912)
04-15-2025 5:44 PM
Reply to: Message 769 by marc9000
04-14-2025 8:55 PM


Re: Well, he did it
marc9000 writes in Message 769:
If Trump truly had a wealth of relevant experience in international trade then it would be reflected in the breadth and depth of his knowledge. He instead exhibits beliefs that reveal a high degree of ignorance:

He believes that trade deficits make a country weaker and mean it is being taking advantage of by its trading partners. The truth is that while trade deficits can happen for a variety of reasons, most often it's because the country running a trade deficit is more wealthy and can afford to buy more goods from many other countries than they can afford to buy from them.
"most often", I'm not sure if that's actually the truth, or if it's just a Democrat opinion. But even if it's "less often" that the U.S. is being taken advantage of by it's trading partners, it becomes TOO OFTEN and is a serious problem.
Again, you've got a backwards view of trade deficits. They are a sign of economic strength, not an indication of exploitation. If trade deficits were actually making us poorer relative to other countries then after a while we wouldn't be wealthy enough to run trade deficits anymore, but that never happens. The U.S. economy just keeps rolling along.
But tariffs are just one of the ways trading partners can take unfair advantage. Others are manipulating currency values, subsidizing domestic industries, and stealing IP. These should all be topics of trade negotiations, and they are. With the EU, tariffs on U.S. cars are always on the agenda. With China, stealing IP is always on the agenda. Trade wars like the one Trump has started (in an on-again/off-again fashion) has dropped the value of the dollar by 20% since he took office. This is from the New York Times (The Dollar Keeps Falling as Its ‘Safe Haven’ Status Is Questioned):
It's common sense that U.S. presidents over the past 100 years or more have been doormats for foreign dictators.
Common sense? More like nonsense. And the topic is tariffs, remember?
It STOPPED on January 20th, 2025.
Are you on drugs? Trump is a dictator fanboy.
It only makes sense that it's going to be a jolt to the world economy for a while. Unlike Biden's war on oil, it's temporary.
And now you're back to trade again. Trump's tariff flip-flop tango is making business planning difficult the world over and is unlikely to end well. Hopefully he'll soon declare victory and move on.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 769 by marc9000, posted 04-14-2025 8:55 PM marc9000 has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 23342
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 6.1


(1)
Message 787 of 847 (922913)
04-15-2025 6:13 PM
Reply to: Message 771 by marc9000
04-14-2025 9:24 PM


marc9000 writes in Message 771:
PaulK already caught up with this in Message 750, but it doesn't hurt to repeat it. Trump had to reverse direction on the China tariffs related to smartphones, computers and similar technologies. Imposing the tariffs and then reversing them are things that actually happened, not opinions.
The left, the news media, has been very successful in implying that Trump imposes tariffs, then reverses them etc, because he's flailing, he realizes a mistake and then reverses it. He's actually assertively imposing tariffs, then taking note of how other countries leaders react to them. Or how his advisors react to them. Then adjusting them accordingly.
You are delusional. Trump's actions on tariffs are ill-advised, ad hoc, miscalculated, impulsive, and reversed multiple times. There's no sign of any study, analysis, planning, nor of any overall strategy.
70 or more countries, who weren't interested in any negotiations, became suddenly interested in meeting with Trump once he imposed tariffs on them.
This is just plainly false. U.S. negotiations with trading partners are constantly ongoing.
It could take a while for them to realize that they're no longer dealing with the doormat presidents that they've been used to dealing with for many decades.
You've mistaken Trump braggadocio for something true.
He puts time limits on his tariff reversals, gives the other countries time to think, and if they don't get closer to a deal Trump wants, the time limit expires. It's called "the art of the deal". I've never read that book, but I do know that's how negotiations work. They take time.
What Trump is doing is neither art nor deal. It's economic extortion combined with punching one's self in the face.
AbE: Here's a WSJ opinion piece on the exceptions: Trump’s Exceptional Tariff Weekend. First it relates the facts about the exceptions, then it addresses comments by Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick and by Trump by speculating on what they might mean.
I can't do much with that paywall. But I do know that the usually conservative WSJ tends to break with Trump / Republicans when its business-as-usual predictability is interrupted.
You're missing the point yet again. You said it was only an opinion that Trump had reversed himself on tariffs, apparently not aware of the context of PaulK's comment. It's now been explained to you multiple times now that PaulK was responding to Tangle's message about the reversals. But you're just holding fast to your original comment-made-in-error, and now you're even discounting the conservative WSJ. Unbelievable.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 771 by marc9000, posted 04-14-2025 9:24 PM marc9000 has not replied

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2670
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 788 of 847 (922914)
04-17-2025 4:25 AM


Nuremburg trials will be here eventually
Remember: If you are following the orders of fascist dictator Trump, you are committing a serious CRIME!

"I'm the Grim Reaper now, Mitch. Step aside."
Death to #TzarVladimirtheCondemned!
"Enjoy every sandwich!"-Warren Zevon on his last DaveLetterman show

- xongsmith, 5.7dawkins scale


  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 18131
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 6.2


Message 789 of 847 (922915)
04-17-2025 6:47 AM


More from Ars
DOGE are killing the IRS free Direct File tax-filing system
Ars Technica
With the FCC attack on regulations protecting consumers the intent seems very much to let US businesses extract more money from US consumers.
Cuts at the CDC are hurting efforts to fight the measles outbreak which has already killed 2 children and 1 adult.
Ars Technica
And an opinion piece - written by the founder and president of a US manufacturing business explains why - in his view - the Trump tariffs are not going to bring manufacturing back to the US. Ars Technica

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2670
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 790 of 847 (922916)
04-17-2025 8:04 AM


Nuremberg 2.0: to expand on my previous post
If you donate money to fascist dictator Trump, according to the Constitution you are committing TREASON by providing aid and comfort to an enemy of the United States.
Remember: If you are following the orders of fascist dictator Trump, you are committing a serious CRIME!
If you don't think Trump is a fascist dictator, I have a seat for you down the bench after the Flat Earthers.
I can't wait for the Nuremberg Trials 2.0 to begin!

"I'm the Grim Reaper now, Mitch. Step aside."
Death to #TzarVladimirtheCondemned!
"Enjoy every sandwich!"-Warren Zevon on his last DaveLetterman show

- xongsmith, 5.7dawkins scale


  
Percy
Member
Posts: 23342
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 6.1


(1)
Message 791 of 847 (922917)
04-17-2025 11:15 AM


The Reality of Bringing Manufacturing Back to the U.S.
Manufacturing jobs are never coming back, says a headline in Vox consistent with what I've been saying in this thread.
Not only are manufacturing jobs not coming back, we don't necessarily want them back, not all of them, anyway. Generally, manufacturing is not as good at producing wealth as other options. As Vox puts it:
quote:
But the bigger reason is that the fall of manufacturing employment in the US was not caused primarily by changes in policy, and changes in policy cannot reverse it. What’s happening is a transition from manufacturing to services that occurs in all countries as they get richer.
For those of you clamoring for more manufacturing jobs in the U.S., let me ask you a question: Do you want to clock in every morning, work on an assembly line for eight hours, then clock out every afternoon? And how many jobs would these factories you dream about actually produce given the move to increased automation with robots. And since the goods produced by these factories would cost more (higher salaries in the US), would the workers with these new jobs even be able to afford the goods they produce?
It's not a simple issue. Here's how ChatGPT summarized it:
Policy GoalProsCons
Keep manufacturing offshoreLower prices, higher efficiency, global trade benefitsMore inequality, weak job market for non-college workers, vulnerable supply chains
Reshore manufacturing (selectively)Better jobs, stronger domestic industries, more resilienceHigher prices, limited job creation due to automation, requires investment
Invest in service job quality[Realistic (since services dominate), can raise standards broadlySlow progress, resistance from low-wage employers, fewer community-level benefits
We've been moving to a more service-based economy, but that's not a panacea. Some service jobs are very lucrative, like those in the knowledge based industries, and like doctors, lawyers and engineers. And other types of service jobs can also be very lucrative, like electricians and plumbers. But many service jobs don't pay so well and aren't easy, like beauticians, teachers, drivers, and the hospitality industry.
It would make sense to move some manufacturing back into the United States, but by no means all. Which manufacturing would be best to return needs to be carefully studied, analyzed, selected and planned. What Trump is doing with his schizoid willy nilly tariffs is just random and crazy.
--Percy

Replies to this message:
 Message 792 by PaulK, posted 04-17-2025 11:53 AM Percy has not replied
 Message 796 by Taq, posted 04-17-2025 3:33 PM Percy has not replied
 Message 804 by Percy, posted 04-19-2025 7:33 AM Percy has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 18131
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 6.2


Message 792 of 847 (922918)
04-17-2025 11:53 AM
Reply to: Message 791 by Percy
04-17-2025 11:15 AM


Re: The Reality of Bringing Manufacturing Back to the U.S.
quote:
What Trump is doing with his schizoid willy nilly tariffs is just random and crazy.
It’s quite clear that Trump assumed that trade imbalances were automatically bad and that tariffs were a magic solution.
The flailing around is fuelled by the fact that it doesn’t work that way and the inability to admit that the original tariffs were a huge misjudgement. And it makes things even worse.
If Trump were a British PM his party would be very much looking at removing him and electing a successor. At least as long as the party wasn’t full of spineless cowards - or crazed cultists - like most of the Republican Congressmen. Liz Truss being the obvious case in point.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 791 by Percy, posted 04-17-2025 11:15 AM Percy has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 795 by Taq, posted 04-17-2025 3:25 PM PaulK has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9699
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 6.0


Message 793 of 847 (922919)
04-17-2025 12:54 PM


Shush, don't mention services ...

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 18131
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 6.2


Message 794 of 847 (922920)
04-17-2025 2:12 PM


First measles, now hepatitis
In his war on public health RFK jr has closed the CDC lab dealing with viral hepatitis. NPR
This has stopped an investigation of a viral hepatitis outbreak in Florida. There’s nowhere else that can and will do the same work. Plenty more in the article - but even if it’s decided the scientists at the lab were wrongly terminated damage has been done which will hurt future work.

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10456
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 6.2


Message 795 of 847 (922921)
04-17-2025 3:25 PM
Reply to: Message 792 by PaulK
04-17-2025 11:53 AM


Re: The Reality of Bringing Manufacturing Back to the U.S.
PaulK writes:
If Trump were a British PM his party would be very much looking at removing him and electing a successor. At least as long as the party wasn’t full of spineless cowards - or crazed cultists - like most of the Republican Congressmen. Liz Truss being the obvious case in point.
If only it were that easy.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 792 by PaulK, posted 04-17-2025 11:53 AM PaulK has not replied

  
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