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Author Topic:   The War in Europe
dwise1
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Posts: 6284
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.6


(1)
Message 1292 of 1373 (922374)
03-01-2025 11:45 AM
Reply to: Message 1290 by PaulK
03-01-2025 3:46 AM


So it looks very much like Trump was attempting to sell out Ukraine with the Russians on hand to see that it was done. A genuine peace was never on the table.
I had duty last night, so I'll be spending today catching up on the coverage of that fiasco.
This morning I saw the ending for the first time, where Trump turns to one of the camera crews saying (from memory -- I'm calling Trump "Il Asino", "The Dunce", as parody for Mussolini's title of "Il Duce" ("The Leader" which Hitler borrowed by being "Der Führer"):
Il Asino:
(to camera crew): Do we have enough? Good. That should make for great television.
That makes it even more obvious that, exactly like the MAGA psychophants* all of whose public performances were intended for Trump as their "audience of one", Trump was playing to his own "audience of one", Putin.
Like everything he's ever done in public, he was putting on a show. Any actual negotiation or diplomatic goals are nonexistent or at least of miniscule importance compared to his getting his video clip.
 
Welcome, America, to your new membership in the Axis of Evil.
 

* FOOTNOTE:
Psychophant --
Malcolm Nance (AKA "Senior Chief") uses that term to refer to Trump's MAGA "psychotic sycophants."
"psycho" plus "phants" --> "psychophants".
The term fits like a glove.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1290 by PaulK, posted 03-01-2025 3:46 AM PaulK has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 6284
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.6


(1)
Message 1296 of 1373 (922400)
03-04-2025 11:30 AM
Reply to: Message 1295 by Tangle
03-04-2025 8:48 AM


So now we're looking at the end of NATO ...
Which has me wondering how that will proceed. Does the NATO treaty include provisions to suspend or expel a rogue member? Would the USA joining the Axis of Evil invalidate the treaty and require the remaining members to renegotiate from scratch.
I know that the USA no longer believes in following any laws anymore, nor conducting itself in anything resembling lawfulness, but that doesn't mean that nobody else does too.
Did the US actually vote for this?
No, we didn't. But our votes no longer count anymore.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1295 by Tangle, posted 03-04-2025 8:48 AM Tangle has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1297 by xongsmith, posted 03-04-2025 4:01 PM dwise1 has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 6284
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.6


(1)
Message 1303 of 1373 (922409)
03-04-2025 9:55 PM
Reply to: Message 1301 by nwr
03-04-2025 9:08 PM


Re: The Judgement
Socially conservative Christians routinely violate this teaching. They are very judgemental.
Maude Flanders in the The Simpsons parody of Rear Window (Bart of Darkness):

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1301 by nwr, posted 03-04-2025 9:08 PM nwr has seen this message but not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 6284
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 1308 of 1373 (922427)
03-06-2025 3:15 PM
Reply to: Message 1307 by Rahvin
03-06-2025 1:11 PM


Re: America's Position on the War
Isolationist rhetoric like what you're parroting is precisely what caused the Great Depression.
The Great Depression was cause more by other factors, such as highly unsafe banking practices which mixed commercial and investment assets, margin trading, etc -- those were addressed by Glass-Steagall (1933) which was dropped under Clinton because "we're too smart now to have to protect ourselves from being so dumb" which led to the Crash of 2008 (again, see The Big Short). Matters leading from the Crash to the Great Depression were made worse by the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act (1930).
As Ferris Bueller would have learned if he hadn't skipped class that day:
BTW, I did learn about tariffs in 11th grade US History class. Didn't anybody else attend high school? They did? Then what's their excuse now?
 
Rather, the big isolationist movement was nearly a decade later in the late 1930's and supported by Germany's NSDAP ("Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei ", "National-Socialist German Workers Party", AKA "Nazi"). At least many in the America First Committee were Nazi-sympathizers (most notably their principal speaker, Charles Lindbergh). In her book and pod-cast, Prequel: An American Fight Against Fascism, Rachel Maddow has reviewed a lot of the history of them and other such groups. A few days ago, she covered the history of an isolationist Senator who died in a plane crash before delivering a key speech which had been written for him by Nazi Germany, rather similar to how too many GOP members keep reciting Kremlin talking points.
So, isolationism works to keep us out of world affairs so that the dictators are free to do whatever they want unimpeded. Including in the end taking us down as we stand alone without anyone to come to our rescue.
 
"America First" actually means "America Alone."
 

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1307 by Rahvin, posted 03-06-2025 1:11 PM Rahvin has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 6284
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.6


(2)
Message 1314 of 1373 (922441)
03-09-2025 12:16 PM
Reply to: Message 1313 by Percy
03-09-2025 11:33 AM


Re: Succinctly Said
Trump doesn't seem to understand the threat. He doesn't understand that Europe needs Ukraine and we need Europe.
Don't make the mistake that Trump's goals are the same as the nation's. It's all part of the plan. Understanding has nothing to do with it.
Of course, I'm of the opinion that Trump is a Russian asset, bought by Putin years ago. Much more than a useful idiot, possibly short of an actual agent. Everything that we see and have seen Trump do falls right in line with Putin's interests.
Trump Is Nero While Washington Burns:
They say they want peace.
The Naughty Nazis song:
quote:
All I want is peace. Peace! Peace! A little piece of Poland, a little piece of France, ...
An earworm for these times.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1313 by Percy, posted 03-09-2025 11:33 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 6284
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.6


(2)
Message 1327 of 1373 (922491)
03-14-2025 1:53 AM
Reply to: Message 1326 by xongsmith
03-13-2025 11:12 PM


Re: Defending Trump Administration By Default
Tangle wrote:
If you know a Canadian, I suggest you avoid him, they're looking quite angry right now. And so am I, they're screwing up the whole damn world.

who is screwing up the whole world? NOT CANADA. Canada is one of the good guys trying to cope with the TrumpNAZIs deserting Ukraine and putting tariffs on their trade with the USA. I would be angry at the USA myself. It is the USA that is screwing up the whole world.
Yes, that is correct. Percy and I read Tangle as saying the same thing, that the subjects indicated by "they" had changed from the one sentence to the next. Substituting explicit names for the pronouns:
Deep Structure Parse writes:
If you know a Canadian, I suggest you avoid him, Canadians are looking quite angry right now. And so am I, Trump and his gang are screwing up the whole damn world.
Elbows up!
(things have to be really bad for me to make a sports reference)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1326 by xongsmith, posted 03-13-2025 11:12 PM xongsmith has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 6284
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.6


(1)
Message 1334 of 1373 (922500)
03-14-2025 11:53 AM
Reply to: Message 1333 by dronestar
03-14-2025 9:56 AM


Re: a nitpick
Keep in mind, the americans have already invaded Canada in the 1800s. They remember, nearly all americans don't.
As I recall, as would most Americans, we invaded Canada as part of the War of 1812 with the UK. Earlier, as I recall, we had invaded Canada during the Revolutionary War in part to get them to join in our rebellion, but no joy.
What surprised me was learning about the Fenian Raids (1866-1871), which I learned about while researching Wikipedia about the name of a popular local Irish band, The Fenians (one of whose songs had also made us aware of the Saint Patrick's Battalion Los Sanpatricios, Irish US soldiers during the Mexican-American War who defected and fought for Mexico; we visited a memorial to them in Mexico City).
Irish soldiers on both sides of the Civil War banded together after the war to turn their military training and experience to carry on the fight for the Irish cause by invading Canada, then part of British North America:
Wikipedia: Fenian Raids:
The Fenian raids were a series of incursions carried out by the Fenian Brotherhood, an Irish republican organization based in the United States, on military fortifications, customs posts and other targets in Canada (then part of British North America) in 1866, and again from 1870 to 1871. A number of separate incursions by the Fenian Brotherhood into Canada were undertaken to bring pressure on the British government to withdraw from Ireland, although none of these raids achieved their aims.
In Canada, the incursions divided its burgeoning Irish-Canadian population, many of whom were torn between loyalty to their new home and sympathy for the aims of the Fenians. Protestant Irish immigrants were generally loyal to the British and fought with the pro-Union Orange Order against the Fenians.
While authorities in the United States arrested the men and confiscated the arms of the Fenian Brotherhood, there was speculation that some in the U.S. government ignored the preparations undertaken by the Fenians due to anger over British assistance to the Confederacy during the American Civil War. The Fenian raids were one of the factors that led to Canadian Confederation, as the provinces united to face the threat of invasions.
Of course, we never heard of that in American history class, but a Canadian friend at church (UU) told me that they most definitely learned about it in their schools. From the quote above, I would think part of the reason it's covered is much like why we cover the Boston Tea Party and the Boston Massacre in our schools, because the Fenian Raids were a factor in the formation of Canada as a country.
I would note that an acquaintance who had spent some time living and working in Canada told me that Canadians celebrate St. Patrick's Day by wearing orange.
So Canada's history features invasions from the south, from us, so current affairs must look to Canadians a lot like history repeating itself.
 
There's also "Case Red", which I read about in GAMING THE INTERWAR: HOW NAVAL WAR COLLEGE WARGAMES TILTED THE PLAYING FIELD FOR THE U.S. NAVY DURING WORLD WAR II, a thesis by a student at the Naval War College.
War gaming has a long history at the Naval War College (NWC) where naval officers training for command at sea can develop their skills starting with tactical level "The Duel" between ships up to running extensive campaigns. Much of the actual Pacific War, such as "island hopping", had been worked out on the floor of NWC's Luce Hall. A similar story is how the Western Approaches Tactical Unit (WATU) used war gaming to determine how the German U-boats were attacking convoys and to develop tactics to fight them -- lots of YouTube content tells their story.
The point I'm getting to from that thesis is that the NWC games after WWI started with the opponent being the UK ("Red"), the reasons being that 1) the British Navy was the most powerful navy so they'd be good to practice against and 2) at the time a conflict of national goals with the UK was possible. From another source (TV war documentary) described that we were ill-prepared to fight the German Navy because all our planning in the Atlantic had been against the British. A few years into the Interwar Period our war gaming attention shifted from "Red" to "Orange" (Japan).
At the same time, US Army gaming was directed northward to Canada (pp 23-24):
quote:
Despite British parity, pacifism, and the rising threat of Japan, Army planners pushed for the establishment of War Plan Red in 1930. With limited input from the Navy, who had started to look more towards possible Japanese aggression, the Army saw conflict against Great Britain as a land war in Canada (Crimson). To support this supposed war, the Army delegated security of the sea lines of communication between Great Britain and Halifax, far to the east of American possessions, to the Navy, with secondary goals to capture Jamaica, the Bahamas, and Bermuda to appease naval desires for Caribbean bases. American land forces would perform the decisive engagements, seizing as much of Canada as possible, and naval forces would defeat the relieving force as it sailed with the Royal Navy, as it had been wargamed by the NWC. In War Plan Red the United States had a contingency for dealing with a threat from the east.
We should keep in mind that the military develops war plans for the purpose of preparation, not because we're intending to actually attack those countries. Rather, it's so that when problems do develop we aren't caught unprepared, but rather can take immediate action -- in contrast in Dec 1941 when Japan had seized large parts of the West Pacific our government was scrambling trying to figure out what natural resources we no longer had access to.
I have to wonder how much of Trump's "sudden" aspirations for expansion stems from our library of war plans. Remember his question the first time around (from memory): "What's the good of nuclear weapons if we don't use them?" We can only look towards the next hurricane season with great trepidation.
BTW, war gaming is not just for the military, but also for economic and diplomatic planning. Refer to the documentary, War Game (2024), about a simulation in which American officials deal with a coup after a disputed election (eg, Alexander Vindman, Steve Bullock, Wesley Clark, Heidi Heitkamp, Doug Jones, Bill Kristol).
Obviously, other countries do the same kind of planning. Without a doubt, our allies (becoming former allies) have developed their own plans for how to handle the defection of the USA to the Axis of Evil.
 
Elbows up!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1333 by dronestar, posted 03-14-2025 9:56 AM dronestar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1344 by dronestar, posted 03-14-2025 4:38 PM dwise1 has not replied
 Message 1358 by dwise1, posted 03-29-2025 8:21 PM dwise1 has replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 6284
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 1358 of 1373 (922683)
03-29-2025 8:21 PM
Reply to: Message 1334 by dwise1
03-14-2025 11:53 AM


Re: US War Plan Red (Canada), 1930
Prompted by talk of invading Canada, it's been planned before.
dwise1 writes in Message 1334:
There's also "Case Red", which I read about in GAMING THE INTERWAR: HOW NAVAL WAR COLLEGE WARGAMES TILTED THE PLAYING FIELD FOR THE U.S. NAVY DURING WORLD WAR II, a thesis by a student at the Naval War College.
War gaming has a long history at the Naval War College (NWC) where naval officers training for command at sea can develop their skills starting with tactical level "The Duel" between ships up to running extensive campaigns. Much of the actual Pacific War, such as "island hopping", had been worked out on the floor of NWC's Luce Hall. A similar story is how the Western Approaches Tactical Unit (WATU) used war gaming to determine how the German U-boats were attacking convoys and to develop tactics to fight them -- lots of YouTube content tells their story.
The point I'm getting to from that thesis is that the NWC games after WWI started with the opponent being the UK ("Red"), the reasons being that 1) the British Navy was the most powerful navy so they'd be good to practice against and 2) at the time a conflict of national goals with the UK was possible. From another source (TV war documentary) described that we were ill-prepared to fight the German Navy because all our planning in the Atlantic had been against the British. A few years into the Interwar Period our war gaming attention shifted from "Red" to "Orange" (Japan).
At the same time, US Army gaming was directed northward to Canada (pp 23-24):
quote:
Despite British parity, pacifism, and the rising threat of Japan, Army planners pushed for the establishment of War Plan Red in 1930. With limited input from the Navy, who had started to look more towards possible Japanese aggression, the Army saw conflict against Great Britain as a land war in Canada (Crimson). To support this supposed war, the Army delegated security of the sea lines of communication between Great Britain and Halifax, far to the east of American possessions, to the Navy, with secondary goals to capture Jamaica, the Bahamas, and Bermuda to appease naval desires for Caribbean bases. American land forces would perform the decisive engagements, seizing as much of Canada as possible, and naval forces would defeat the relieving force as it sailed with the Royal Navy, as it had been wargamed by the NWC. In War Plan Red the United States had a contingency for dealing with a threat from the east.
I just was offered this YouTube video, US Plan to Invade Canada, by The Infographics Show and posted 2 years ago. Besides War Plan Red, it also reviews past border conflicts with Canada, including a minor incident in Washington, DC, during the War of 1812.
Share and enjoy!
 

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1334 by dwise1, posted 03-14-2025 11:53 AM dwise1 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1359 by dwise1, posted 04-01-2025 10:14 PM dwise1 has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 6284
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 1359 of 1373 (922711)
04-01-2025 10:14 PM
Reply to: Message 1358 by dwise1
03-29-2025 8:21 PM


Re: Now That We've Joined The Axis of Evil ...
The Infographics Show channel on YouTube has released more content examining potential armed conflicts between the US and our former allies. I haven't watched them yet, but here's the one from a year ago, Canada's WWIII Plan, with three other videos on the side released during the past two weeks about how conflict with NATO could play out.
Breaking up out of a long-term relationship can be so messy.
 
I'm reminded of a British comedy sketch I saw on YouTube about a decade ago. Two German soldiers in uniform are tending to their gear when one starts to ponder a question (from memory):
"I've been wondering: are we the good guys?"
"Of course we are. Why would you ask?"
"I mean, look at our uniforms. They have skulls on them. Isn't that something that the bad guys would do?"
Which got me thinking the other day while driving: when is the US military going to start putting skulls on our uniforms?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1358 by dwise1, posted 03-29-2025 8:21 PM dwise1 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1360 by DrJones*, posted 04-01-2025 11:01 PM dwise1 has replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 6284
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 1361 of 1373 (922713)
04-02-2025 12:56 AM
Reply to: Message 1360 by DrJones*
04-01-2025 11:01 PM


Re: Now That We've Joined The Axis of Evil ...
Yes, that's the one. Thanks.
 
Though actually, the Totenkopf ("Death's Head") was not new with the Nazis, but rather had a long history in the Prussian army as well as in other non-German militaries (including our own USMC Marine Raiders minus the crossbones).
In Prussia, it started in the late 18th Century under Fredrick II ("the Great") of Prussia who created a hussar regiment (light cavalry) whose black uniforms bore a Totenkopf. From there the symbol carried on into the mid-20th Century (follow the Totenkopf Wikipedia link for more info).
But still, it's the Nazis and the SS that we've come to think of first.
And pirates, also in that Wikipedia article.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1360 by DrJones*, posted 04-01-2025 11:01 PM DrJones* has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 6284
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 1365 of 1373 (922728)
04-03-2025 12:40 PM
Reply to: Message 1364 by dronestar
04-03-2025 12:12 PM


Last night, a majority of senators with a few republicans voted against canadian tariffs because of the specific harm of the canadian tariffs to their states. Unfortunately, it is currently doubtful the House of Representatives will also support this measure.
There's a House rule that after a certain number of days (14 days as I seem to recall) a bill that hasn't been acted upon must be brought to the floor for a vote.
So Speaker Johnson defined the rest of this session of Congress as one single day. That way, we'll never run through the number of days that will trigger that House rule and they'll never vote on it in the remaining nine months of this session of Congress. At least that's what a Progressive Radio host (Michelangelo Signorile I think) has explained a few times.
Playing a stacked deck by House rules. With a huge dose of Worde Magick thrown in.
That reminds me, wasn't there a musical play based on a porn movie about a talking johnson (AKA "penis")?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1364 by dronestar, posted 04-03-2025 12:12 PM dronestar has not replied

  
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