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Author Topic:   The War in Europe
Phat
Member
Posts: 18763
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 2.9


(5)
Message 1264 of 1373 (922230)
02-17-2025 3:50 PM
Reply to: Message 1263 by Tangle
02-17-2025 3:33 PM


Re: US Power Vacuum Forces European Action
We are the best friend Europe has ever had and if they get mad because we won't pay any more, good luck trying to find a better "friend" to replace us. One problem is that currently too many of your leaders are progressive globalists. Its time you grew up and paid your own bills. We always end up paying ours.

When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
God alone is God *but* God is not alone~Ellis Potter
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
Critics would of course say that "God" is a product of human imagination...but then again God may well declare that all of creation is a product of His imagination! It is all in the perspective of the observer.~Phat

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1263 by Tangle, posted 02-17-2025 3:33 PM Tangle has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1265 by PaulK, posted 02-17-2025 4:40 PM Phat has replied
 Message 1266 by Percy, posted 02-17-2025 4:41 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 1267 by Zucadragon, posted 02-18-2025 2:34 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 1268 by Percy, posted 02-18-2025 7:02 AM Phat has replied
 Message 1270 by Taq, posted 02-18-2025 6:17 PM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18763
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 2.9


(1)
Message 1272 of 1373 (922267)
02-21-2025 3:01 PM
Reply to: Message 1268 by Percy
02-18-2025 7:02 AM


Re: US Power Vacuum Forces European Action
The issue is elimination of what has historically een Big Government.
Percy writes:
Europe is not a burden but an enormous asset, and the Trump administrations actions are diminishing the U.S. as a major player in world affairs.
The question is how much it costs to maintain the asset and the paid relationships thereof. Remember Chicagos Mayor Daly and accusations of his "Big Political Machine"? A Big bureaucracy costs a lot of money to operate. In todays modern era, some jobs are created merely to satisfy diversity, equity, and inclusion. The Republican position is that there is a lot of waste in many of these salaries, from the military on down. You guys claim that Europe is an essential friend who shares intelligence information with us, though I would assert that it is we who have the best network of intelligence and have clogged up the payroll with all of these bases and government jobs that are claimed to be so necessary. I have heard, though not confirmed that the Director of the Kennedy Center for the arts has a salary approching a million dollars a year. Multiply that sort of bureaucracy over the globe and you may understand why paring back the budget is a necessary step for our country. We simply cant afford what it costs to be a global superpower. More of these costs should be shared more equitably among our partners.
In addition, this talk of us cozying up to Russia and Putin are overblown progressive propaganda.
Trump sees Democracy as a series of business deals that save his client (The US) money and trimming the big government syndrome that has grown global along with our superpower responsibilities.
I also wouldnt fear China filling the vacuum anytime soon. They have financial problems of their own.
As for the Middle East, European bases are not an absolute necessity though regional bases are.
We have our carriers and naval battle groups to serve as launch points for any crises.
It seems that you guys are alarmists who are in favor of keeping a lot of the jobs that long since grew out of a bloated budget. Of course, you would rather lay off far-right workers than progressive leftists, many of whom fill a lot of slots. And I will agree that Trump is far from perfect...he is a train wreck but he is in fact trimming the fat that the progressives would never have the guts to trim. Granted he will use the savings to engineer another tax break or extend the tax cuts of the past. Ultimately, its all about money and the conflicting priorities over who gets it.

When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
God alone is God *but* God is not alone~Ellis Potter
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
Critics would of course say that "God" is a product of human imagination...but then again God may well declare that all of creation is a product of His imagination! It is all in the perspective of the observer.~Phat

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1268 by Percy, posted 02-18-2025 7:02 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1279 by Percy, posted 02-21-2025 5:57 PM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18763
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 1273 of 1373 (922269)
02-21-2025 3:14 PM
Reply to: Message 1265 by PaulK
02-17-2025 4:40 PM


Re: US Power Vacuum Forces European Action
PK writes:
Ramping up global warming instead of trying to limit it to a level we might be able to live with.
Who are you blaming for that? The fact is that the wars contribute more damage towards Global Warming than anything any politician has ever done.

When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
God alone is God *but* God is not alone~Ellis Potter
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
Critics would of course say that "God" is a product of human imagination...but then again God may well declare that all of creation is a product of His imagination! It is all in the perspective of the observer.~Phat

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1265 by PaulK, posted 02-17-2025 4:40 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1274 by PaulK, posted 02-21-2025 3:18 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18763
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 2.9


(5)
Message 1275 of 1373 (922271)
02-21-2025 3:20 PM
Reply to: Message 1274 by PaulK
02-21-2025 3:18 PM


Re: US Power Vacuum Forces European Action
Might I remind you that Europe and Biden had a lot more to do with the war in Ukraine than Trump ever did. He wants to stop it. That alone would surely help slow down Climate Change.

When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
God alone is God *but* God is not alone~Ellis Potter
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
Critics would of course say that "God" is a product of human imagination...but then again God may well declare that all of creation is a product of His imagination! It is all in the perspective of the observer.~Phat

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1274 by PaulK, posted 02-21-2025 3:18 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1276 by PaulK, posted 02-21-2025 3:40 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 1277 by Rahvin, posted 02-21-2025 4:31 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 1280 by Percy, posted 02-21-2025 7:31 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 1281 by DrJones*, posted 02-21-2025 8:14 PM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18763
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 2.9


(1)
Message 1300 of 1373 (922406)
03-04-2025 7:44 PM
Reply to: Message 1298 by Tangle
03-04-2025 5:38 PM


The Judgement
Tangle writes:
Hey Phat, is this what you and your friends voted for?
Percy once jokingly said that I claimed to be some sort of prescient messenger, a claim that I occasionally embrace. Though I threw away my vote to Kamala (to appease my sister) my hope was with the majority of the conservatives, many of whom are church folk. Now, after a mere two months under the Trump Administration, I predict that both the Western Church and the Conservative parties in Israel will be partially judged and partially taught a lesson by virtue of their actions. There is a very good chance that Trump is an antichrist figure, sent to cause chaos and disorder on the planet. I will double down on my prediction that the American economy will collapse due to the extreme inflation and devaluation of our currency.
I have no regret that Kamala did not win in that she was unequipped to handle global affairs without continuing to encourage global support for the US and its dollar. This does not mean that Trump is any better...he will prove to be a bull(shitter) in a China shop.
His supporters love him at this point, and the wool will be over their eyes for some years... When it all does fall apart, they will blame anything except him and his administrative actions. As to your question, yes...many of my conservative friends see nothing wrong with Trump's policies.

When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
God alone is God *but* God is not alone~Ellis Potter
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
Critics would of course say that "God" is a product of human imagination...but then again God may well declare that all of creation is a product of His imagination! It is all in the perspective of the observer.~Phat

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1298 by Tangle, posted 03-04-2025 5:38 PM Tangle has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1301 by nwr, posted 03-04-2025 9:08 PM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18763
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 1306 of 1373 (922422)
03-06-2025 12:23 PM
Reply to: Message 1305 by Percy
03-06-2025 8:35 AM


Re: America's Position on the War
Even if the Ukraine war is unpopular with a majority of the American people, it is still essential for European security and for upholding the ideals of supporting democracy throughout the world. It is up to our elected representatives to make that clear to the American people and not just mechanically do what the people want at the moment. That's how Brexit happened, for just one recent example.
Did it ever occur to you that most people want us to downsize...to step back from being the leader of the free world? Its like the strong guy with a truck always helping everyone move and always doing a majority of the work. We are tired of it. Tell that to the representatives.

When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
God alone is God *but* God is not alone~Ellis Potter
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
Critics would of course say that "God" is a product of human imagination...but then again God may well declare that all of creation is a product of His imagination! It is all in the perspective of the observer.~Phat

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1305 by Percy, posted 03-06-2025 8:35 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1307 by Rahvin, posted 03-06-2025 1:11 PM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18763
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 2.9


(1)
Message 1317 of 1373 (922473)
03-13-2025 12:23 PM
Reply to: Message 1316 by Tangle
03-10-2025 6:22 PM


Defending Trump Administration By Default
Tangle writes:
3% fall in stocks today, Tesla down 15%. The markets didn't like the Orange Git's statement that he's ok with a recession.

Did you vote for that too Phat?
At this point it matters little who voted for what.
The economy has been on shaky ground since COVID. If you believe otherwise, you can stick your heads back in the sand.
The Democratic party are the masters of kicking the can down the road in the name of human needs. Republicans are less empathetic. They will trim the fat even if it means that your sweet gay Uncle who got a DEI Job in the name of...(well, fill in the blank)
gets cut. You claim to be a finance guy, yet you have seemingly had little clue as to the reality of economics since 2008. Im not worshiping Trump nor do I intend to. He is a moving train wreck because he has no empathy for DEI jobs nor big government.
Nevertheless, the United States that he inherited was closer to being broke than you thought.

When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
God alone is God *but* God is not alone~Ellis Potter
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
Critics would of course say that "God" is a product of human imagination...but then again God may well declare that all of creation is a product of His imagination! It is all in the perspective of the observer.~Phat

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1316 by Tangle, posted 03-10-2025 6:22 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1318 by Tangle, posted 03-13-2025 12:35 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 1320 by Percy, posted 03-13-2025 1:40 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18763
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 1321 of 1373 (922482)
03-13-2025 3:02 PM
Reply to: Message 1320 by Percy
03-13-2025 1:40 PM


Re: Defending Trump Administration By Default
Percy writes:
I wish you'd answer the question because I'm curious, too: Is what we've seen since Trump took office what you wanted to happen when you voted for him?
*We* wanted a broken economy and global dollar system fixed, even if our allies did not like it.
We were not compassionate towards anyone. It was and is every man(woman) for ourselves. The economy was bloated and generating more and more debt. Likely, it's too late to fix even for Musk and his whizkids' A.I. analysis. You were, in fact, naive to think that we would eventually pull out of it. No politician since Obama had the will to fix it because they would be unpopular when the recession/depression inevitably hit. It likely would have hit Kamala, too, though her administration may have been able to kick the can once more.
So what have I read, listened to, or heard that fuels my suspicions?
Yahoo for one.
Gold touches new record as latest Wall Street prediction sees prices reaching $3,500
More later.

When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
God alone is God *but* God is not alone~Ellis Potter
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
Critics would of course say that "God" is a product of human imagination...but then again God may well declare that all of creation is a product of His imagination! It is all in the perspective of the observer.~Phat

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1320 by Percy, posted 03-13-2025 1:40 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1322 by Tangle, posted 03-13-2025 3:11 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 1323 by PaulK, posted 03-13-2025 3:25 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 1324 by Percy, posted 03-13-2025 4:52 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 1325 by Rahvin, posted 03-13-2025 6:12 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18763
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 1336 of 1373 (922503)
03-14-2025 2:50 PM
Reply to: Message 1325 by Rahvin
03-13-2025 6:12 PM


Re: Defending Trump Administration By Default
Rahvin writes:
]You've been convinced of flatly incorrect ideas about the dollar, fiat currency, gold, and global trade.
Why am I supposed to believe that you or anyone else at EvC knows better than what I've heard? I'm not being smug- I'm genuinely curious.
Rahvin writes:
The problem is that your understanding of the reasons are based on delusion
Again, let's be clear about this. Perhaps you can begin by telling me what you have heard.(Or been taught)

When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
God alone is God *but* God is not alone~Ellis Potter
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
Critics would of course say that "God" is a product of human imagination...but then again God may well declare that all of creation is a product of His imagination! It is all in the perspective of the observer.~Phat

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1325 by Rahvin, posted 03-13-2025 6:12 PM Rahvin has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1338 by dronestar, posted 03-14-2025 2:59 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18763
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 1337 of 1373 (922504)
03-14-2025 2:58 PM
Reply to: Message 1332 by Percy
03-14-2025 8:35 AM


Its An Economic War that concerns me.
First off, is it true that US money to Ukraine was essentially given whereas European money to Ukraine was loaned? Or is this some propaganda and fake news that I heard?
Second, I heard that ten trillion in US debt is coming due in 2025 alone. I think that this is an accurate figure.
My point for the past few years, unfailingly dismissed by you and others, is that BRICS(led by Russia) was waging an economic war against the US Dollar. Sanctions against them were not working. Does anyone dispute this?

When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
God alone is God *but* God is not alone~Ellis Potter
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
Critics would of course say that "God" is a product of human imagination...but then again God may well declare that all of creation is a product of His imagination! It is all in the perspective of the observer.~Phat

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1332 by Percy, posted 03-14-2025 8:35 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18763
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 1339 of 1373 (922506)
03-14-2025 3:28 PM
Reply to: Message 1338 by dronestar
03-14-2025 2:59 PM


Re: Defending Trump Administration By Default
Of course, this "chorus" of others who correct me know things that I am incapable of knowing! |
The cracks in the foundation started in 2008 when Obama bailed out the banks. We should have taken the hit then.
Since Covid, the government is now 40% of the economy. This is a big part of the problems we now face.

When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
God alone is God *but* God is not alone~Ellis Potter
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
Critics would of course say that "God" is a product of human imagination...but then again God may well declare that all of creation is a product of His imagination! It is all in the perspective of the observer.~Phat

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1338 by dronestar, posted 03-14-2025 2:59 PM dronestar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1340 by dronestar, posted 03-14-2025 3:35 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 1341 by Percy, posted 03-14-2025 3:35 PM Phat has replied
 Message 1342 by PaulK, posted 03-14-2025 3:58 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 1345 by Percy, posted 03-14-2025 5:35 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18763
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 1347 of 1373 (922519)
03-15-2025 12:02 PM
Reply to: Message 1341 by Percy
03-14-2025 3:35 PM


Re: Defending Trump Administration By Default
It depends on how you look at it, Percy. What source did you use?
Is Government Spending Really 41 Percent of GDP? My point is that through QE and other stimulus methods, our economy's vibrancy has largely been due to money created out of nothing. The government was and is responsible for this.

When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
God alone is God *but* God is not alone~Ellis Potter
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
Critics would of course say that "God" is a product of human imagination...but then again God may well declare that all of creation is a product of His imagination! It is all in the perspective of the observer.~Phat

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1341 by Percy, posted 03-14-2025 3:35 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1349 by Percy, posted 03-15-2025 2:15 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18763
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 2.9


(1)
Message 1348 of 1373 (922520)
03-15-2025 12:17 PM
Reply to: Message 1345 by Percy
03-14-2025 5:35 PM


Re: Defending Trump Administration By Default
Percy writes:
By the way, we're still wondering if what Trump's done since he took office is what you wanted him to do?
What I wanted was change from the Biden administration. I wanted the U.S. to address its budget quirks before it was too late. You and others continued to denigrate my arguments by acting as if you could school me on what economics was really all about, parroting an administration focused on re-election and fully able to spin the narrative. They taught you well.
To be honest, (and as I have said before) there is a 20& chance that Trump is trying to destroy everything. It certainly appears that way from a Democratic perspective. Democrats have always hated Trump and would have as soon seen him jailed or killed instead of winning the 2024 election.
From my perspective, Trump is indeed trashing the system as it has been globally for over 50 years. There could be several reasons for this.
  • As I mentioned often, BRICS is (or was) in an economic war with the West. You and I never agreed that the dollar was in trouble. I always took that side and still do. So how is turning our back on our allies helping the issue? It is forcing them to spend their own money to defend their own interests and freeing us up to let the dollar crash and absolve ourselves of the 36 trillion plus in debt that we have. Trump has never been afraid of bankruptcy (evidently). In this "wargame scenario," we know exactly what they were planning to do and we now are making them aware of the fact that we know and are responding rather than denying that our "mighty" dollar could ever be hurt. As for our allies, they are hurt and will be hurt because we are forcing them to go along with the planned implosion.
    Your side was under the illusion that we could have remained solvent and paid the debt.
    Now it is everyone's responsibility.

    When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
    God alone is God *but* God is not alone~Ellis Potter
    We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
    Critics would of course say that "God" is a product of human imagination...but then again God may well declare that all of creation is a product of His imagination! It is all in the perspective of the observer.~Phat

  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 1345 by Percy, posted 03-14-2025 5:35 PM Percy has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 1350 by Percy, posted 03-15-2025 2:24 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18763
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 2.9


    Message 1352 of 1373 (922544)
    03-19-2025 5:32 PM
    Reply to: Message 1351 by Percy
    03-19-2025 1:07 PM


    Re: The Trump/Putin Negotiations
    Are Trump supporters at least beginning to recognize that Trump was talking through his hat about how easily he would end the Ukraine war?
    There is nothing new about Trump. He has used hyperbole for years. The point that most of them accept is that he is at least trying to end the war.
    And if all Trump does to end the war is hand Ukraine over to Russia, do Trump supporters realize that Biden could just as easily have done the same? Of course, Biden would never have done that since he recognized the importance of Ukraine to Western security.
    Biden also never cared about how much taxpayer money he spent, even if it drove the U.S. deeper into debt. Democratic and Republican administrations have both amassed debt, kicking the proverbial can farther down the road. Trump has nothing to lose by fighting government waste and likely has something to gain...dismantling the deep state spending machine that had an open checkbook for the rest of the world.

    When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
    God alone is God *but* God is not alone~Ellis Potter
    We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
    Critics would of course say that "God" is a product of human imagination...but then again God may well declare that all of creation is a product of His imagination! It is all in the perspective of the observer.~Phat

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 1351 by Percy, posted 03-19-2025 1:07 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 1353 by Taq, posted 03-19-2025 5:38 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
     Message 1354 by Tangle, posted 03-19-2025 6:00 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
     Message 1355 by DrJones*, posted 03-19-2025 8:41 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
     Message 1356 by xongsmith, posted 03-20-2025 1:13 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

      
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