Anglo-Israelitism , End Times and the misuse of scripture

A general topic to discuss the Anglo-Israelite claims and also the weird interpretations of end-times prophecy put forward by Anglo-Israelite believers.This thread is primarily proposed to divert such discussions from other threads where they are off-topic.

Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

Thread moved here from the Coffee House forum.

Thread copied here from the Anglo-Israelitism , End Times and the misuse of scripture thread in the Proposed New Topics forum.

What are Anglo-Israelites?

I hope this topic is limited to Faith and beliefs backed by scripture and that politics and evolution are kept to a minimum. Candle3 always drags PRATTS regarding evolution vs. Creation into his arguments. If he wants to share his personal faith and beliefs, I'm fine with that and will participate, but if he gets off on the evolution arguments that he does not understand, it will muddy the water.

Here ya go:

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British Israelism (also called Anglo-Israelism) states that people of Western Europe descent, particularly those in Great Britain, are the direct lineal descendants of the Ten Lost Tribes of Israel. The doctrine often includes the tenet that the British Royal Family is directly descended from the line of King David.
British-Israel-World Federation - Wikipedia

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Modern genetics has pretty much put an end to this old conspiracy theory. From what I can tell, it's pretty similar to Flat Earth theories in both denialism and ridiculousness.

Politics and evolution should not be relevant though doubtless candle3 will try to drag them up.However this cannot be limited to scripture since both the claims and the relevant evidence are outside it.

Well I've never heard about it in any church that I have attended or been associated with.I have been taught that my own personal relationship and inner conscience with God is more important and solid than anything that any Pastor says...though I have not always lived it. We can discuss some End Times theology and popular interpretations of scripture, though I anticipate that most of you will disagree with the interpretations.

Of course you haven’t. It’s a crank idea picked up by a few churches. Herbert Armstrong was the main populariser, but aside from that it’s just a nutty idea that very few people are foolish enough to believe.

It could be informative to learn what many Christians believe with respect to the end times, Zionism, and the place of Israel in theology. From what I understand, some end timers want there to be a war in Israel because they think this will bring about Armageddon. The impact on US foreign policy is obvious, so the more we know . . .

I’d prefer to keep this on candle3’s nonsense rather than general end-times discussion. Especially as I’ve already done a thread in that here.

Paulk, you will never learn. Your ego will prevent you from
seeing the truth, or at least admitting it.Read in Genesis 48 about Joseph's two son, Ephraim (Great
Britain-the company of nations) and Manasseh (the single
great nation- U.S.)This chapter says nothing about the other sons of Jacob
(Israel). They are: Reuben; Simeon; Levi; Judah (father of the
Jews); Zebulon; Issachar; Dan; Gad; Asher; Naphtali;
and, Benjamin.Notice what Israel says to Joseph and his two sons. V. 16"The Angel who has redeemed me from all evil, Bless the lads;
Let my name (Israel) be named upon them... And let them
grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth."He did not say let their uncle's name (Judah) be named on
them. They are not Jews.Whose descendants are to become that numerous seed, which
shall number into the hundreds of millions?Ephraim and Manasseh, not Judah.Israel placed his ight hand on Ephraim. Joseph moved Israel's
right hand to Manasseh, the oldest. Israel moved it back.Speaking of Manasseh in v. 19, Israel said of Manasseh "I
know, my son, I know. He also shall become a people, and he
also shall be great; but truly his younger brother shall be
greater than he, and his descendants shall become a
multitude (company) of nations.These two brothers who received the very name Israel, are
not Jews. It is ridiculous to think so.They are to become their own people. The name Israel is the
national name of their descendants. And their descendants
we're never Jews.Israel said to Joseph in v.22 "Moreover I have given to you one
portion above your brothers,..."Two tribes came from JosephLeviticus tells us that because of idolatry and Sabbath
breaking the blessing were withheld from the descendants
for 2520 years, which expired around 1800 when Britain
became the world's most powerful nation. The sun always
shine on one of their company of nations.Manasseh separated from GB and became the single great
nation.Amos 9:9 states that Israel (our forefathers) would be sifted
through many nations; yet, not one grain shall fall to the earthNot all Americans are of the stock of Manasseh, but many are.However, Israel has always absorbed Gentiles living in their
land.

OK, Candle3. Here we go.

Endlessly quoting scripture, (Especially the OT) does not impress your audience here at EvC, though I imagine it reinforces your confidence in your beliefs. It is evident to me that you learn this stuff solely through the teachings of your church. Do you expect to convert anyone?

I advise dropping the whole evolution/creationism argument. If you must speak on the matter, focus on glorifying the Creator as you understand Him and leave the evolution arguments alone. They are PRATTS to this audience. (Points Refuted A Thousand Times)

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Feel free to argue (or discuss) God's character through Jesus Christ with me. Jesus is the focal point of the entire Bible (for Believers) and is really the only important point of Christianity.

Candle3:

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...you will never learn. Your ego will prevent you from
seeing the truth, or at least admitting it.
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All of us have some degree of an Ego. The Truth is living and active. What would you say that this "Truth" is?

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When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
God alone is God *but* God is not alone~Ellis Potter
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed

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Critics would of course say that "God" is a product of human imagination...but then again God may well declare that all of creation is a product of His imagination! It is all in the perspective of the observer.~Phat

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Paulk, you will never learn. Your ego will prevent you from
seeing the truth, or at least admitting it.
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At which I laugh and ask whether you’vemanaged to read Daniel 8 carefully yet.No it is the absurdity of your claims and the lack of evidence - those are the reasons that I don’t accept your claims. Should I ignore the fact that 1941 was 84 years ago and believe your assertion that Nazi leaders who escaped Germany in that year are coming back to restore the Holy Roman Empire? What you call pride is just plain sense.

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Read in Genesis 48 about Joseph's two son, Ephraim (Great
Britain-the company of nations) and Manasseh (the single
great nation- U.S.)

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And what evidence do you have that Great Britain or the US are Ephraim and Manasseh? Is not the fact that Great Britain is predominantly peopled by Indo-Europeans relevant? Should we not consider that the origins of the US population are so mixed that it would be foolish to identify them with even the Israelites in general?

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This chapter says nothing about the other sons of Jacob
(Israel). They are: Reuben; Simeon; Levi; Judah (father of the
Jews); Zebulon; Issachar; Dan; Gad; Asher; Naphtali;
and, Benjamin.

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You always seem to forget that the Kingdom of Judah incorporated the Tribe of Benjamin as well as that of Judah.

quote:

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"The Angel who has redeemed me from all evil, Bless the lads;
Let my name (Israel) be named upon them... And let them
grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth."
​
He did not say let their uncle's name (Judah) be named on
them. They are not Jews.
​
Whose descendants are to become that numerous seed, which
shall number into the hundreds of millions?

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If numbers are the measure, why not China and India rather than Great Britain and the US? Your assignments are arbitrary. And arbitrary in time as well as space - why should it be numbers now that matter? Why not the numbers in a 100 years or 1000 ?

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Leviticus tells us that because of idolatry and Sabbath
breaking the blessing were withheld from the descendants
for 2520 years, which expired around 1800 when Britain
became the world's most powerful nation. The sun always
shine on one of their company of nations.

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I must ask you to cite the relevant verses. However the simple fact that Britain had been powerful and growing well before that indicates that this is another arbitrary claim.So no, you really have nothing. Great Britain and the US are gentile nations with no special connection to the Israelites. All you have is a weak and arbitrary interpretation of a few Bible verses. Hardly enough to overrule the evidence of linguistics, anthropology and genetics.