Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 45 (9233 total)
0 online now:
Newest Member: ChemEngrMBA
Post Volume: Total: 921,678 Year: 2,000/6,935 Month: 124/306 Week: 56/47 Day: 0/5 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   The Second Trump Presidency
K.Rose
Member
Posts: 256
From: Michigan
Joined: 02-02-2024
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 211 of 907 (921261)
01-05-2025 4:58 PM
Reply to: Message 205 by Percy
01-04-2025 9:50 AM


Re: MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL!!
Percy writes in Message 205:
You're not here to hand out reading assignments.
Apologies, the entry has been edited.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 205 by Percy, posted 01-04-2025 9:50 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
K.Rose
Member
Posts: 256
From: Michigan
Joined: 02-02-2024
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 212 of 907 (921262)
01-05-2025 5:11 PM
Reply to: Message 206 by Percy
01-04-2025 10:11 AM


Re: MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL!!
Percy writes in Message 206:
...I'm not a supporter of anyone. I'm an independent. I vote for who I think will be best for the country.
Very good, and I would hope so.
So as you weighed the candidates in this election, what were the Harris advantages over Trump, and what were the Trump advantages over Harris?
(Please stay tuned for a response to the rest of 206...and 203.)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 206 by Percy, posted 01-04-2025 10:11 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 229 by Percy, posted 01-07-2025 10:53 AM K.Rose has replied

  
K.Rose
Member
Posts: 256
From: Michigan
Joined: 02-02-2024
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 213 of 907 (921263)
01-05-2025 5:16 PM
Reply to: Message 202 by PaulK
01-04-2025 6:41 AM


Re: MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL!!
PaulK writes in Message 202:
The problems with the financials of healthcare in the US are well-known.
OK, please name the ones that you see as the top three.
It seems that every time I think I have the worst sinistries of the health care system figured a new one pops up and takes center stage.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 202 by PaulK, posted 01-04-2025 6:41 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 220 by PaulK, posted 01-06-2025 12:21 AM K.Rose has replied

  
K.Rose
Member
Posts: 256
From: Michigan
Joined: 02-02-2024
Member Rating: 3.3


(2)
Message 214 of 907 (921264)
01-05-2025 6:50 PM
Reply to: Message 206 by Percy
01-04-2025 10:11 AM


Re: MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL!!
Percy writes in Message 206:
That's not an answer. Where do you see animus from either one toward your religion?
Trump speaks regularly of his Faith, God, and The Bible. You can never know a man's heart, but at a minimum he is giving vocal support.
Biden claims he's Catholic. Biden has just awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom to Cecile Richards for women's reproductive rights, et al. Richards is a longtime ardent abortion supporter-activist. She was also the president of Planned Parenthood for over 10 years, during which time she oversaw ~4,000,000 abortions. Biden's actions are profoundly antithetical to Catholicism (and Christianity in general, Judaism, Islam,...)
Trump wins in the animus toward faith department hands down.
Please continue staying tuned for additional responses to 203 and 203. Thanks.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 206 by Percy, posted 01-04-2025 10:11 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 215 by xongsmith, posted 01-05-2025 9:04 PM K.Rose has not replied
 Message 216 by xongsmith, posted 01-05-2025 9:06 PM K.Rose has not replied
 Message 217 by kjsimons, posted 01-05-2025 9:53 PM K.Rose has not replied
 Message 218 by DrJones*, posted 01-05-2025 11:30 PM K.Rose has not replied
 Message 234 by Percy, posted 01-07-2025 6:10 PM K.Rose has not replied
 Message 239 by xongsmith, posted 01-07-2025 9:19 PM K.Rose has not replied

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2680
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 215 of 907 (921265)
01-05-2025 9:04 PM
Reply to: Message 214 by K.Rose
01-05-2025 6:50 PM


oh well, it started out sort of interesting
K.Rose, you are wrong. You should go away

"I'm the Grim Reaper now, Mitch. Step aside."
Death to #TzarVladimirtheCondemned!
Enjoy every sandwich!

- xongsmith, 5.7dawkins scale


This message is a reply to:
 Message 214 by K.Rose, posted 01-05-2025 6:50 PM K.Rose has not replied

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2680
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 216 of 907 (921266)
01-05-2025 9:06 PM
Reply to: Message 214 by K.Rose
01-05-2025 6:50 PM


*deleted duplicate created by net lag*

"I'm the Grim Reaper now, Mitch. Step aside."
Death to #TzarVladimirtheCondemned!
Enjoy every sandwich!

- xongsmith, 5.7dawkins scale


This message is a reply to:
 Message 214 by K.Rose, posted 01-05-2025 6:50 PM K.Rose has not replied

  
kjsimons
Member
Posts: 836
From: Orlando,FL
Joined: 06-17-2003


(1)
Message 217 of 907 (921267)
01-05-2025 9:53 PM
Reply to: Message 214 by K.Rose
01-05-2025 6:50 PM


Re: MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL!!
Trump is no Christian, he just mouths the words to pull the wool over the eyes of the gullible. But you know that and still pretend that Trump is a Christian, that reflects poorly on you. Do better.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 214 by K.Rose, posted 01-05-2025 6:50 PM K.Rose has not replied

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2385
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 6.4


Message 218 of 907 (921268)
01-05-2025 11:30 PM
Reply to: Message 214 by K.Rose
01-05-2025 6:50 PM


Re: MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL!!
Trump speaks regularly of his Faith, God, and The Bible
Bullshit. This is a man who when questioned about forgiveness said he had nothing to be forgiven for. One of the central teachings of christianty is that we have all fallen, we've all sinned, we all need forgiveness. If he doesn't understand one of the central pillars of his alleged faith why would you think he's actually a christian?

It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 214 by K.Rose, posted 01-05-2025 6:50 PM K.Rose has not replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6495
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005


Message 219 of 907 (921269)
01-05-2025 11:50 PM
Reply to: Message 210 by Phat
01-05-2025 2:52 PM


Re: Security Over Morality?
Phat writes in Message 210:
Harris was less impressive in this area.
Harris is a Christian. In what way do you see her as "less impressive" on the question of being an enemy of Christians?

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 210 by Phat, posted 01-05-2025 2:52 PM Phat has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 18143
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 6.0


Message 220 of 907 (921270)
01-06-2025 12:21 AM
Reply to: Message 213 by K.Rose
01-05-2025 5:16 PM


Re: MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL!!
US Healthcare is disproportionately expensive compared to other countries.
Pricing is completely out of whack, with the prices charged to insurance companies having very little connection to list prices.
Pharmaceutical companies are free to put prices up as they wish, subject only to public backlash
And that’s not mentioning the obvious problem with basing a system on for-profit insurance companies, or the poor performance of US maternity care.
Of course you don’t address the other issues like Republican opposition to reform or Trump’s broken promises.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 213 by K.Rose, posted 01-05-2025 5:16 PM K.Rose has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 224 by K.Rose, posted 01-06-2025 5:37 PM PaulK has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 23364
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.8


(2)
Message 221 of 907 (921271)
01-06-2025 9:55 AM
Reply to: Message 210 by Phat
01-05-2025 2:52 PM


Re: Security Over Morality?
Phat writes in Message 210:
I counted 80.
I didn't count. I used the count-words-region function of Emacs. I just did it again, this time including the labels on your quotes, and I got 86.
But your point stands. You are encouraging *demanding* that I use more of my own words in a post.
Ideally you'd understand the issues and would write about them in your own words.
You will notice that I found quotes that defended Trump vs attacking and vilifying him.
I didn't read your quotes.
I know that the man is no saint, but I agree with the articles I quoted where they said
Tucker Carlson:
If you're wondering why so many Christians have been willing to support this president despite his personal life, this is why: It's because whatever his flaws, he's made it clear that he's not the enemy of Christians.”
Harris was less impressive in this area.
Harris was raised in a Black Baptist church and attended Hindu temple. She's a practicing Baptist and her husband is Jewish. The only time you'll see Trump in a church is if it's a campaign event. He's only telling Christians what they want to hear - they're being naive.
Christians in general feel that a mans character can change and evolve. We are more forgiving than secular humanists in general. It could, however, be to our detriment.
Yeah, no kidding. Trump's second-term vision for America is far darker than his first.
quote:
But let’s stop pretending that Trump is someone that he isn’t. The cards are on the table for all to see.
As I have said, the jury is still out.
Trump has been active politcally on the national stage since 2015. If the jury is still out for you then you must be deaf and blind.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 210 by Phat, posted 01-05-2025 2:52 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
K.Rose
Member
Posts: 256
From: Michigan
Joined: 02-02-2024
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 222 of 907 (921282)
01-06-2025 3:23 PM
Reply to: Message 206 by Percy
01-04-2025 10:11 AM


Re: MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL!!
Percy writes in Message 206:
…Trump is against many things a moral Christian stands for…
Percy writes in Message 203:
…how does Christian reconcile his beliefs with his support of such a man…?
Percy writes in Message 206:
…How can a moral Christian vote for Trump…?
Your questions and statements presume some notion of Christian morality.
Let me break it down:
There are those who break the worldly/man’s law (criminals), and we defer to worldly laws and proceedings to right worldly wrongs.
There are those who break Spiritual Law (sinners). Spiritual wrongs (sins) will be righted come Judgement Day. To condemn or forgive others their spiritual wrongs is completely beyond our human purview.
We live in a world of man’s law, but we must abide by Spiritual Law, i.e., we are in this world but we are not of this world.
Our world is imperfect, for a very basic but profound reason, and we are imperfect. It is folly to expect others to live up to one's morals all the time, indeed, one does not live up to one’s own morals all the time. That goes along with the imperfection.
If you demand strict adherence to your morals of everyone you interact or do business with, hire or recommend, then you will not interact, do business, hire, or recommend. In addition, argumentation is not the way to share The Word, nor is forcing Biblical compliance by force of man’s law.
WHAT THIS MEANS
In its most basic sense an election is simply the hiring of a guy to uphold the Constitution (man’s law), as inspired by the principles in the Declaration of Independence. We don’t look to this guy to enforce our Spiritual law beyond man’s law; we don’t expect him to demonstrate spiritual purity; he may even be atheist.
This answers your questions, this is how a faithful Christian votes for Trump.
So we have the two qualifiers for president that I presented earlier, and I’ve added a third for clarity.
  1. The person who holds the least animus toward my faith.
  2. The person and who will be the most just in upholding the worldly law.
  3. If 1 & 2 are a 100% tie, then I can apply more trivial factors: The way they dress; their favorite celebrity; their various immutable characteristics; etc.
A final note: Once again, as I try to engage in a pro/con discussion of a Trump administration, while trying to keep things focused on policy, actions, and efficacy, I instead find my character/intelligence/motives under attack in voting for Trump. This is curiously, eerily similar to the powerful Trump opponents (Biden, Harris, Obamas, Clintons,…) attacking/vilifying/insulting/berating the little-guy voters on the other side while avoiding the meaningful questions and discussion directed toward them. In contrast, Trump tries to woo the little-guy voters on the other side, reserving the attacks for his powerful opponents.
I challenge us to get back to the Topic of this Forum.
.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 206 by Percy, posted 01-04-2025 10:11 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 223 by xongsmith, posted 01-06-2025 3:41 PM K.Rose has replied
 Message 243 by Percy, posted 01-08-2025 11:15 AM K.Rose has replied

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2680
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 223 of 907 (921283)
01-06-2025 3:41 PM
Reply to: Message 222 by K.Rose
01-06-2025 3:23 PM


Re: MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL!!
but Trump doesn't uphold the Constitution. He shits all over it.

"I'm the Grim Reaper now, Mitch. Step aside."
Death to #TzarVladimirtheCondemned!
Enjoy every sandwich!

- xongsmith, 5.7dawkins scale


This message is a reply to:
 Message 222 by K.Rose, posted 01-06-2025 3:23 PM K.Rose has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 225 by K.Rose, posted 01-06-2025 5:37 PM xongsmith has replied

  
K.Rose
Member
Posts: 256
From: Michigan
Joined: 02-02-2024
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 224 of 907 (921284)
01-06-2025 5:37 PM
Reply to: Message 220 by PaulK
01-06-2025 12:21 AM


Re: MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL!!
PaulK writes in Message 220:
US Healthcare is disproportionately expensive compared to other countries.

Pricing is completely out of whack, with the prices charged to insurance companies having very little connection to list prices.

Pharmaceutical companies are free to put prices up as they wish, subject only to public backlash
Agree wholeheartedly, though these are results of the problems, rather than root causes. I would add that pharmaceuticals made in the US cost more in the US than they do in other countries, in many cases.
quote:
And that’s not mentioning the obvious problem with basing a system on for-profit insurance companies...
Agree with this root cause wholeheartedly. I would add to the list:
  • Lack of Tort Law reform - This drives up costs by driving up hospitals' liability costs and drives endless testing to protect against accusations of negligence. But hey, everyone in the medical care industry is OK with it because it increases revenue across the board because in the end the consumer (or government) pays for it all.
  • Irresponsible patients and doctors: Patients don't want to change their unhealthy ways, they'd rather just take a pill that allows them to continue with their unhealthy ways. Doctors are all too willing to accommodate, rather than stress proper diet/exercise/behaviors, probably because if they don't do it the next guy will. Besides, unhealthy people generate revenue.
  • Pharmacy Benefit Managers (PBM's) - The health care system's latest scourge.
  • Unhealthy foods without guidance. The US diet is horrible. High-calorie, low-nutrition, with poisons, e.g., we buy additives, made in other countries that ban their use in their own countries, that make food cheaper, more appealing, and provide longer shelf life. RFK is onto something, we should listen.
quote:
Of course you don’t address the other issues like Republican opposition to reform or Trump’s broken promises.
OK, take digs at the republicans and Trump if you must. The republicans and democrats share equal blame for this, maybe one more than the other, not sure which it would be. Getting rid of Obamacare is not the silver bullet solution either, though Obamacare certainly plays a part in getting us to where we are in this mess, hastily implemented, political, and shortsighted as it was. Trump was right not t focus on getting rid of Obamacare, it wouldn't have solved anything, because the current problems affect the entire health care system.
Trump has put together a highly motivated, sincere, and transparent team. Say what you want about them, but it only makes sense to give them a chance to do whatever they can do. Nothing else has been working, except maybe managing the decline at best.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 220 by PaulK, posted 01-06-2025 12:21 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 226 by PaulK, posted 01-07-2025 12:21 AM K.Rose has replied

  
K.Rose
Member
Posts: 256
From: Michigan
Joined: 02-02-2024
Member Rating: 3.3


(1)
Message 225 of 907 (921285)
01-06-2025 5:37 PM
Reply to: Message 223 by xongsmith
01-06-2025 3:41 PM


Re: MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL!!
How so?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 223 by xongsmith, posted 01-06-2025 3:41 PM xongsmith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 232 by xongsmith, posted 01-07-2025 12:36 PM K.Rose has not replied
 Message 245 by Percy, posted 01-08-2025 6:41 PM K.Rose has replied
 Message 247 by Admin, posted 01-09-2025 10:58 AM K.Rose has replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2025