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Author Topic:   Stogumber
Phat
Member
Posts: 18859
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 31 of 44 (920991)
12-17-2024 2:03 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by AZPaul3
12-16-2024 9:13 AM


Re: The Shaman Speaks.
AZPaul3 writes:
You and your fellow evil-followers can try to ignore religion’s history but it has already bit you … hard.
"evil Followers"? Explain to me how these "evil followers" affected the war in Viet Nam. Explain to me how these "evil followers" affect and/or influence the current wars in Ukraine and Israel?

When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
God alone is God *but* God is not alone~Ellis Potter
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
Critics would of course say that "God" is a product of human imagination...but then again God may well declare that all of creation is a product of His imagination! It is all in the perspective of the observer.~Phat

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by AZPaul3, posted 12-16-2024 9:13 AM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by AZPaul3, posted 12-18-2024 12:02 PM Phat has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8792
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006


Message 32 of 44 (920999)
12-18-2024 12:02 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by Phat
12-17-2024 2:03 PM


Re: The Shaman Speaks.
Are you saying that a philosophy that permits some evils, is silent on others and, not just participates but actively leads on still others is worthy of making ANY moral judgments?
You may have forgotten but I have a history with Vietnam. Your religious vultures found fertile recruiting grounds there. Many platoons of Christian Soldiers all taking their righteous fantasies gilded in hate home with them to instill in a new generation of warriors. I was there.
What the god damn fuck do you think is happening right now in all our other god damn fuckin wars? Your evil is propagating even more!

“There’s simply no polite way to tell people they’ve dedicated their lives to an illusion,”
-Daniel Dennett
Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Phat, posted 12-17-2024 2:03 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by Phat, posted 12-19-2024 3:23 AM AZPaul3 has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10539
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 2.9


(2)
Message 33 of 44 (921001)
12-18-2024 12:43 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by Phat
12-17-2024 1:43 PM


Re: The Shaman Speaks.
Phat writes:
Of course. The only narrative that you ascribe to comes from your own mind. You ridicule ancient texts yet create your own "modern texts" and narratives. You are following the teachings of your "father"...*ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil..*.
So I take it you believe in the Koran? Or do you reject this ancient text just like the atheists do?
As the old saying goes, atheists only disbelieve in one more god than you do. When you understand why you reject all of those other gods, you will understand why we reject your god.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Phat, posted 12-17-2024 1:43 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by Phat, posted 12-19-2024 4:31 AM Taq has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8792
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006


Message 34 of 44 (921002)
12-18-2024 2:01 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by Phat
12-17-2024 1:43 PM


Re: The Shaman Speaks.
What I refuse to acknowledge is the voices in your head.
The voices in my head tell me nothing.
The consensus of reality tells me everything.
Ok, not nothing. They're telling me my hip is screaming, I put too much salt in my soup, again, and Trump is going to fuck everything up. They tell me things like that.

“There’s simply no polite way to tell people they’ve dedicated their lives to an illusion,”
-Daniel Dennett
Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Phat, posted 12-17-2024 1:43 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18859
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 35 of 44 (921009)
12-19-2024 3:23 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by AZPaul3
12-18-2024 12:02 PM


Re: The Shaman Speaks.
AZPaul3 writes:
You may have forgotten but I have a history with Vietnam. Your religious vultures found fertile recruiting grounds there. Many platoons of Christian Soldiers all taking their righteous fantasies gilded in hate home with them to instill in a new generation of warriors. I was there.

What the god damn fuck do you think is happening right now in all our other god damn fuckin wars? Your evil is propagating even more!
Are you saying that "Christian" propaganda is distorting the motives for the wars in Europe and the Middle East? Explain how this is happening.

When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
God alone is God *but* God is not alone~Ellis Potter
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
Critics would of course say that "God" is a product of human imagination...but then again God may well declare that all of creation is a product of His imagination! It is all in the perspective of the observer.~Phat

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by AZPaul3, posted 12-18-2024 12:02 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by AZPaul3, posted 12-19-2024 11:24 AM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18859
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 36 of 44 (921010)
12-19-2024 3:42 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by Percy
12-15-2024 7:08 PM


Re: Stogumber
Percy writes:
The only way to support any proposition is through evidence.
Given that, are you still open to a supernatural touch or walling yourself off from any possibility?

When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
God alone is God *but* God is not alone~Ellis Potter
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
Critics would of course say that "God" is a product of human imagination...but then again God may well declare that all of creation is a product of His imagination! It is all in the perspective of the observer.~Phat

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Percy, posted 12-15-2024 7:08 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by Percy, posted 12-19-2024 8:06 AM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18859
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 37 of 44 (921012)
12-19-2024 4:31 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by Taq
12-18-2024 12:43 PM


Re: The Shaman Speaks.
Taq writes:
So I take it you believe in the Koran? Or do you reject this ancient text just like the atheists do?

As the old saying goes, atheists only disbelieve in one more god than you do. You will understand why we reject your god when you understand why you reject all of those other gods.
Is there such a document as an atheist manifesto? I do know of the
humanist manifesto and have debated it before. I also realize that atheists are unique and not an actual group, but there are identifiable traits with freethinkers and humanists.

When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
God alone is God *but* God is not alone~Ellis Potter
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
Critics would of course say that "God" is a product of human imagination...but then again God may well declare that all of creation is a product of His imagination! It is all in the perspective of the observer.~Phat

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Taq, posted 12-18-2024 12:43 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by Percy, posted 12-19-2024 8:12 AM Phat has not replied
 Message 41 by Taq, posted 12-19-2024 4:54 PM Phat has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 23566
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 38 of 44 (921013)
12-19-2024 8:06 AM
Reply to: Message 36 by Phat
12-19-2024 3:42 AM


Re: Stogumber
Phat writes in Message 36:
Percy writes:
The only way to support any proposition is through evidence.
Given that, are you still open to a supernatural touch or walling yourself off from any possibility?
Are you open to an evidence-based approach or walling yourself off from any possibility?
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by Phat, posted 12-19-2024 3:42 AM Phat has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 23566
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 39 of 44 (921014)
12-19-2024 8:12 AM
Reply to: Message 37 by Phat
12-19-2024 4:31 AM


Re: The Shaman Speaks.
Why not answer the question:
Taq writes:
So I take it you believe in the Koran? Or do you reject this ancient text just like the atheists do?
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by Phat, posted 12-19-2024 4:31 AM Phat has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8792
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006


Message 40 of 44 (921021)
12-19-2024 11:24 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by Phat
12-19-2024 3:23 AM


Re: The Shaman Speaks.
Explain how this is happening.
Your priests love them some warlords.
priest-bless-1
russian-priests-blessing-weapons14
weapon-bless

“There’s simply no polite way to tell people they’ve dedicated their lives to an illusion,”
-Daniel Dennett
Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Phat, posted 12-19-2024 3:23 AM Phat has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10539
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 41 of 44 (921024)
12-19-2024 4:54 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by Phat
12-19-2024 4:31 AM


Re: The Shaman Speaks.
Phat writes:
Is there such a document as an atheist manifesto?
I wouldn't see the point in one. It would be about as useful as a manifesto on why someone doesn't believe in Bigfoot.
Care to answer the question?
"So I take it you believe in the Koran? Or do you reject this ancient text just like the atheists do?"
You seem to act as if atheists don't have a justification for rejecting ancient scriptures, so I am asking if you believe in the Koran. Surely you wouldn't ridicule this ancient text, right?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by Phat, posted 12-19-2024 4:31 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by Phat, posted 12-20-2024 2:20 AM Taq has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18859
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 42 of 44 (921025)
12-20-2024 2:20 AM
Reply to: Message 41 by Taq
12-19-2024 4:54 PM


Re: The Shaman Speaks.
I believe in the writings and wisdom of the ancients. I personally believe that there are many pearls of wisdom to be gleaned from ancient philosophical writings. I will admit to being indoctrinated into the inerrant idea of sacred scripture and I also will admit that many old religions profess inerrancy. I have studied comparative religions, but admittedly from the standpoint of Christianity being unique. What convinced me of the validity of the uniqueness was a personal epiphany and a subsequent confirmation bias.
You may well have a point, but your point stands as your testimony and not mine.
I am still learning every day, but nothing in my past knowledge needs throwing away. If anything, I can defend my faith better today than I could ten years ago.

When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
God alone is God *but* God is not alone~Ellis Potter
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
Critics would of course say that "God" is a product of human imagination...but then again God may well declare that all of creation is a product of His imagination! It is all in the perspective of the observer.~Phat

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by Taq, posted 12-19-2024 4:54 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by Taq, posted 12-20-2024 10:44 AM Phat has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10539
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 2.9


(1)
Message 43 of 44 (921032)
12-20-2024 10:44 AM
Reply to: Message 42 by Phat
12-20-2024 2:20 AM


Re: The Shaman Speaks.
Phat writes:
I have studied comparative religions, but admittedly from the standpoint of Christianity being unique. What convinced me of the validity of the uniqueness was a personal epiphany and a subsequent confirmation bias.
All religions are unique. Otherwise, they wouldn't be different religions.
You may well have a point, but your point stands as your testimony and not mine.
I think it is worth pointing out that you view religions in the same way atheists do.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by Phat, posted 12-20-2024 2:20 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by Phat, posted 12-20-2024 2:28 PM Taq has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18859
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 44 of 44 (921033)
12-20-2024 2:28 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by Taq
12-20-2024 10:44 AM


Re: The Shaman Speaks.
I think it is worth pointing out that you view religions in the same way atheists do.
I disagree. I worship the I AM. Jesus Christ. Atheists worship one less. The Personal pronoun. The they AM. The them AM. Freewill. freedom to not believe. freethinking. Dont get me wrong. Atheists cannot be defined as a group and I AM not saying that they worship anything. One may argue, however, that not to decide is to decide.
So I will say it again. They them am. Otherwise, why adopt the name of no theism?
Do you see my point?

When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
God alone is God *but* God is not alone~Ellis Potter
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
Critics would of course say that "God" is a product of human imagination...but then again God may well declare that all of creation is a product of His imagination! It is all in the perspective of the observer.~Phat

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by Taq, posted 12-20-2024 10:44 AM Taq has not replied

  
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