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Author Topic:   Electric Vehicles
NosyNed
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Posts: 9012
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 31 of 38 (917349)
04-03-2024 10:47 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by Rahvin
04-03-2024 10:20 AM


Highway vs City Streets
The highway has been very useful* with Tesla's FSD for the 4 years I've had it. That's actually at least a couple of orders of magnitude easier than city streets.
Before (V11) it would work on surface streets but not all that well.
Now it actually drives successfully and maybe will improve very fast. It's a guess but I'd now say that the other ADAS systems will never catch Tesla. Ford may well be the first to licence it.
* but sure not something you can relax and ignore -- far from perfect. I'll be interested in how V12 does on the highway but don't get out of the city much.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Rahvin, posted 04-03-2024 10:20 AM Rahvin has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 23175
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 32 of 38 (917353)
04-03-2024 4:58 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by Rahvin
04-03-2024 10:20 AM


Re: The Full Self Driving Experience
I turned off Full Self Driving earlier today. For local driving it felt like I always had to be on the alert for potential wrong moves. I'm almost never on a highway where it seems like it would be pretty useful, but by the time we take our next trip my free month will be up. Forget if I already mentioned, but Tesla charges $12,000 or $199/month for FSD.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
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Tangle
Member
Posts: 9632
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 33 of 38 (917354)
04-03-2024 5:11 PM


Not interested until there needs to be no-one behind the steering wheel.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


  
Percy
Member
Posts: 23175
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 34 of 38 (920875)
12-03-2024 10:48 AM


Tesla and Fuel Cells
I just today became aware that Tesla has started to make noise about introducing a fuel cell car in 2026. That's absurd. There will no more be practical fuel cell cars by 2026 than there will be practical fusion power. Nor by 2030. Nor by 2040. Perhaps not ever.
There are three significant problems faced by fuel cell vehicles:
  1. They require a couple precious metals, platinum and iridium.
  2. There is no source of hydrogen that is both cheap and clean. Breaking the chemical bond between hydrogen and oxygen in water is very expensive in terms of energy, and extracting hydrogen from natural gas emits a lot of carbon.
  3. Mobil hydrogen containment is a significant problem. The energy density of hydrogen is low, so the alternatives are expensive very high pressure containers, or expensive cryogenic gear. In either case, space requirements just wouldn't allow it.
As recently as 2019 Musk called fuel cell powered passenger vehicles "mind-bogglingly stupid", so this change of mind is just Musk talking through his hat again (like when he claims every year that Full Self Driving will be a reality by next year). The nearly insurmountable problems cannot be surmounted in mere years. We're talking decades.
A neighbor's son is involved in a fuel cell research effort at school in conjunction with a commercial company. Their target is long haul trucks. They're large enough to handle the large footprint needed for hydrogen storage and for keeping it at a safe distance from fuel pumps, batteries, and so forth.
--Percy

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by Taq, posted 12-03-2024 11:02 AM Percy has not replied
 Message 36 by NosyNed, posted 12-07-2024 10:21 AM Percy has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10385
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 35 of 38 (920878)
12-03-2024 11:02 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by Percy
12-03-2024 10:48 AM


Re: Tesla and Fuel Cells
Percy writes:
There will no more be practical fuel cell cars by 2026 than there will be practical fusion power. Nor by 2030. Nor by 2040. Perhaps not ever.
If we can harvest hydrogen from the ground then it would take away from the cost of production, but I still don't think we could harvest enough to make it a viable replacement for ICE. If it is going to be a niche product then there is no incentive to build out the infrastructure. Chicken and egg.
However, mined hydrogen might be a good fuel source for energy production.
A neighbor's son is involved in a fuel cell research effort at school in conjunction with a commercial company. Their target is long haul trucks. They're large enough to handle the large footprint needed for hydrogen storage and for keeping it at a safe distance from fuel pumps, batteries, and so forth.
That's an interesting option.

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NosyNed
Member
Posts: 9012
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 36 of 38 (920927)
12-07-2024 10:21 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by Percy
12-03-2024 10:48 AM


Re: Tesla and Fuel Cells
As a reasonable rule of thumb, don't believe anything published about Tesla.
What is your source for this? It doesn't make any sense at all.
But your comments on H2 have been supported many places.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Percy, posted 12-03-2024 10:48 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by Percy, posted 12-07-2024 12:01 PM NosyNed has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 23175
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 37 of 38 (920931)
12-07-2024 12:01 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by NosyNed
12-07-2024 10:21 AM


Re: Tesla and Fuel Cells
NosyNed writes in Message 36:
What is your source for this?
Elon Musk won’t make any more Tesla electrics: This will be the new fuel via Google News. But I see that since I posted a few days ago that the debunking sites like Snopes are reporting that it's false: Snopes Fact Check: No Tesla 'Model H' Hydrogen Car, which says:
quote:
Public Reaction and Misinformation: The claim has been met with mixed reactions on social media, with some users believing the news, while others recognized it as potentially false information or a misunderstanding, possibly fueled by AI-generated joke content.
I actually had a different reaction. I thought it was just Musk again saying something outlandish to gain attention.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by NosyNed, posted 12-07-2024 10:21 AM NosyNed has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by PaulK, posted 12-07-2024 12:10 PM Percy has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 18058
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 38 of 38 (920932)
12-07-2024 12:10 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by Percy
12-07-2024 12:01 PM


Re: Tesla and Fuel Cells
That site looks pretty crappy to me. I wouldn’t be surprised if the articles are AI generated, they’re that bad.
If Musk has said it I still wouldn’t believe it, but it seems he hasn’t and it makes no sense anyway.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by Percy, posted 12-07-2024 12:01 PM Percy has not replied

  
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