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Author Topic:   Why is Biden still the President
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4597
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 9.7


Message 76 of 89 (920468)
10-09-2024 1:53 PM
Reply to: Message 74 by Taq
10-09-2024 1:11 PM


Thanks.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3
If you are going to argue that evolution is false because it resembles your own beliefs then perhaps you should rethink your argument. - - Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by Taq, posted 10-09-2024 1:11 PM Taq has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4597
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 9.7


Message 77 of 89 (920469)
10-09-2024 1:54 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by xongsmith
10-09-2024 1:11 PM


Re: still president thread
Thanks!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3
If you are going to argue that evolution is false because it resembles your own beliefs then perhaps you should rethink your argument. - - Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by xongsmith, posted 10-09-2024 1:11 PM xongsmith has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4597
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 9.7


Message 78 of 89 (920470)
10-09-2024 2:39 PM
Reply to: Message 74 by Taq
10-09-2024 1:11 PM


Yep, I forgot about Johnson, deciding not to run in '68.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3
If you are going to argue that evolution is false because it resembles your own beliefs then perhaps you should rethink your argument. - - Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by Taq, posted 10-09-2024 1:11 PM Taq has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22945
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 6.9


Message 79 of 89 (920473)
10-09-2024 4:33 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by GDR
10-08-2024 2:38 PM


GDR writes in Message 49:
Good point. The Democratic membership had no say in it but it was a decision taken by those who hold power in the Democratic party.
I agree that the "Democratic membership had no say," but not that it was "a decision taken by those who hold power in the Democratic party." All the news reports say the same thing, that it was a personal decision made by Biden in consideration of all the advice and feedback he had been given, some public, some private, and in consultation with his family.
My own unevidenced belief is that Biden isn't really calling the shots now anyway. I'm guessing that it is people like Obama and Pelosi.
Why do you think that? Even a Biden in full dementia would seem unlikely to let others siphon off control. Have you ever dealt with a willful dementia patient who's been accustomed to being in control their entire life? I just can't see a modestly compromised Biden ceding control to others. Delegating more, yes, but giving up any control, no.
Percy writes:
Is "mental fitness" a synonym for "cognitive impairment" now?
As I said, I was wrong to do that.
I think that brings us more in agreement.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by GDR, posted 10-08-2024 2:38 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by GDR, posted 10-15-2024 8:49 PM Percy has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17916
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 6.7


Message 80 of 89 (920513)
10-15-2024 4:42 PM


Looks like GDR has run away
I hope he realised just what he’s been doing - at least in part. At least we were spared the usual pretence that debate here is just personal attacks. But we didn’t get any sort of apology either.

Replies to this message:
 Message 82 by GDR, posted 10-15-2024 8:51 PM PaulK has replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6223
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 81 of 89 (920514)
10-15-2024 8:49 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by Percy
10-09-2024 4:33 PM


Percy writes:
I agree that the "Democratic membership had no say," but not that it was "a decision taken by those who hold power in the Democratic party." All the news reports say the same thing, that it was a personal decision made by Biden in consideration of all the advice and feedback he had been given, some public, some private, and in consultation with his family.
I'd venture to say that not all the news reports say the same thing. Sure that's the position of the democratic party. Don't you think it's a bit odd that he didn't come out and make a formal announcement but through a post on twitter just hours after announcing that he was definitely staying in the race.?
Pres. Biden withdrawal
Here is a quote from that wiki page.
quote:
These concerns increased after the first 2024 presidential debate, between Biden and Republican Party candidate Donald Trump on June 27, 2024. Biden's performance was widely criticized, with commentators noting he frequently lost his train of thought and gave meandering answers, had a faltering appearance, spoke with a hoarse voice, and failed to recall statistics or coherently express his opinion on several occasions.[2] Biden subsequently faced calls to withdraw from the race from fellow Democrats[3] and from the editorial boards of major news outlets.[4][5] By July 19, 2024, more than 30 senior Democrats had called for him to withdraw
Percy writes:
​Why do you think that? Even a Biden in full dementia would seem unlikely to let others siphon off control. Have you ever dealt with a willful dementia patient who's been accustomed to being in control their entire life? I just can't see a modestly compromised Biden ceding control to others. Delegating more, yes, but giving up any control, no.
Well, we have od idea what pressure they put on him.

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.

Micah 6:8


This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by Percy, posted 10-09-2024 4:33 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 83 by Percy, posted 10-16-2024 2:31 PM GDR has replied
 Message 87 by Taq, posted 10-16-2024 6:24 PM GDR has not replied
 Message 88 by Theodoric, posted 10-16-2024 10:52 PM GDR has not replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6223
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 82 of 89 (920515)
10-15-2024 8:51 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by PaulK
10-15-2024 4:42 PM


Re: Looks like GDR has run away
PaulK writes:
I hope he realised just what he’s been doing - at least in part. At least we were spared the usual pretence that debate here is just personal attacks. But we didn’t get any sort of apology either.
I'll apologise for being slow in responding but I have been tied up recently.

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.

Micah 6:8


This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by PaulK, posted 10-15-2024 4:42 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 84 by PaulK, posted 10-16-2024 3:42 PM GDR has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22945
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 6.9


Message 83 of 89 (920522)
10-16-2024 2:31 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by GDR
10-15-2024 8:49 PM


GDR writes in Message 81:
Percy writes:
I agree that the "Democratic membership had no say," but not that it was "a decision taken by those who hold power in the Democratic party." All the news reports say the same thing, that it was a personal decision made by Biden in consideration of all the advice and feedback he had been given, some public, some private, and in consultation with his family.
I'd venture to say that not all the news reports say the same thing.
Find a *news* report saying something different.
Sure that's the position of the democratic party.
No, that's the news.
Don't you think it's a bit odd that he didn't come out and make a formal announcement but through a post on twitter just hours after announcing that he was definitely staying in the race?
I find many, many things about modern administrating and campaigning odd, especially the use of social media. I have no idea what's considered the proper way to release information anymore.
Pres. Biden withdrawal
Here is a quote from that wiki page.
quote:
These concerns increased after the first 2024 presidential debate, between Biden and Republican Party candidate Donald Trump on June 27, 2024. Biden's performance was widely criticized, with commentators noting he frequently lost his train of thought and gave meandering answers, had a faltering appearance, spoke with a hoarse voice, and failed to recall statistics or coherently express his opinion on several occasions.[2] Biden subsequently faced calls to withdraw from the race from fellow Democrats[3] and from the editorial boards of major news outlets.[4][5] By July 19, 2024, more than 30 senior Democrats had called for him to withdraw
My account and Wikipedia's say basically the same thing. If you think you see meaningful differences you'll have to point them out. Obviously I expressed things in my own words, just as whoever wrote the Wikipedia account expressed things in theirs. And of course my account, never intended as part of an entry in an on-line encyclopaedia, was more brief and less detailed.
Percy writes:
​Why do you think that? Even a Biden in full dementia would seem unlikely to let others siphon off control. Have you ever dealt with a willful dementia patient who's been accustomed to being in control their entire life? I just can't see a modestly compromised Biden ceding control to others. Delegating more, yes, but giving up any control, no.
Well, we have no idea what pressure they put on him.
And what conclusions do you draw from this information that we have "no idea" about?
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by GDR, posted 10-15-2024 8:49 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 85 by GDR, posted 10-16-2024 4:50 PM Percy has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17916
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 6.7


Message 84 of 89 (920523)
10-16-2024 3:42 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by GDR
10-15-2024 8:51 PM


Re: Looks like GDR has run away
quote:
I'll apologise for being slow in responding but I have been tied up recently.
That’s not what you should be apologising for.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by GDR, posted 10-15-2024 8:51 PM GDR has not replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6223
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 85 of 89 (920524)
10-16-2024 4:50 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by Percy
10-16-2024 2:31 PM


Sure it was Biden's decision but he was under serious pressure to pull out by senior democrats. Without their support the campaign was hopeless and so they left him no real choice but to pull out.
Here is an NBC report.
Biden's withdrawal
Percy writes:
No, that's the news.
The news reports were mainly what the the Democratic released, the rest was all speculation.
Percy writes:
And what conclusions do you draw from this information that we have "no idea" about?
I simply conclude that there was so much pressure put on him that re withdrew against his will essentially along the lines of that NBC article. That is simply my opinion from as an interested observer.

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.

Micah 6:8


This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by Percy, posted 10-16-2024 2:31 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 86 by PaulK, posted 10-16-2024 5:00 PM GDR has not replied
 Message 89 by Percy, posted 10-17-2024 8:56 AM GDR has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17916
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 6.7


Message 86 of 89 (920525)
10-16-2024 5:00 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by GDR
10-16-2024 4:50 PM


quote:
Here is an NBC report.
Biden's withdrawal

Note that it agrees with what I was saying:
Biden’s call appeared to hinge entirely on political factors, rather than concerns about his health or his ability to do his job.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by GDR, posted 10-16-2024 4:50 PM GDR has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10299
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 7.2


(1)
Message 87 of 89 (920526)
10-16-2024 6:24 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by GDR
10-15-2024 8:49 PM


GDR writes:
Sure that's the position of the democratic party.
In the opening post you wrote:
"What I want to know is why the Democratic party came to the conclusion that President Biden was cognitively impaired and should step down as the candidate but, leave him still in office."
What is the actual position of the Democratic party? Their conclusion was that Biden was politically damaged and couldn't win. They did NOT conclude that Biden was cognitively impaired. So your premise from the opening post doesn't stand.
Was Biden forced out of the race in some manner? Yes, absolutely. Without pressure he wouldn't have left the race. So what?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by GDR, posted 10-15-2024 8:49 PM GDR has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9489
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 6.1


(1)
Message 88 of 89 (920527)
10-16-2024 10:52 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by GDR
10-15-2024 8:49 PM


Don't you think it's a bit odd that he didn't come out and make a formal announcement but through a post on twitter just hours after announcing that he was definitely staying in the race.?
First of all, please show the times. Secondly, we all believe something until we don't The moment we change our mind is instantaneous. Do you have precognition of when you are going to change your mind?

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by GDR, posted 10-15-2024 8:49 PM GDR has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22945
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 6.9


(2)
Message 89 of 89 (920528)
10-17-2024 8:56 AM
Reply to: Message 85 by GDR
10-16-2024 4:50 PM


GDR writes in Message 85:
Sure it was Biden's decision but he was under serious pressure to pull out by senior democrats. Without their support the campaign was hopeless and so they left him no real choice but to pull out.
I never offered that link. It must be yours.
If by "no real choice" you mean that Biden couldn't see a path to victory for him, then sure.
Here is an NBC report.
Biden's withdrawal
This is the exact same link again, your link. There was probably a cut-n-paste error.
Percy writes:
No, that's the news.
The news reports were mainly what the the Democratic released, the rest was all speculation.
Many spoke publicly, but more importantly, when it comes to a choice between actual news and speculation, you're choosing speculation. You can apply the techniques you're using to literally anything. "Doesn't it seem odd to you that..." is the equivalent of Donald Trump's "They're saying..." With this approach no evidence is needed.
Percy writes:
And what conclusions do you draw from this information that we have "no idea" about?
I simply conclude that there was so much pressure put on him that re withdrew against his will essentially along the lines of that NBC article. That is simply my opinion from as an interested observer.

I'm not going to read a bare link. If you'd like to make the arguments the article is making in your own words and offer the link as a supporting reference then that's up to you. I suspect it says pretty much the same thing as what I and Wikipedia already said. I read a number of articles at the time, and while they all had their own way of expressing things and their own slant, they all reported the same facts.
Your points and arguments must make sense to you, otherwise you wouldn't be making them, but to me you're coming across just as you did in the Choosing a faith thread, as disingenuously offering speculation and the absence of facts to argue positions that have little to no support.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by GDR, posted 10-16-2024 4:50 PM GDR has not replied

  
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