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Author Topic:   Israel Declares War For The First Time Since 1973.
Taq
Member
Posts: 10285
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 7.0


Message 376 of 482 (918808)
05-24-2024 11:38 AM
Reply to: Message 375 by Theodoric
05-23-2024 4:16 PM


Re: Israel is Recruiting the Next Generation of Hamas Fighters
Theodoric writes:
Bull shit. Arafat and the Palestinians had solid proposals. The Israeli's made amorphous oral proposals. Nothing written down.
Israel made a take it or leave it offer. They are the ones that cut of negotiations.
All negotiations start out with oral proposals. There's no reason to write anything down until there's a basic agreement. That's a poor excuse.
If you want to claim that Israel wouldn't budge at one meeting, then fine. Anyone knows that these types of negotiations aren't finished in one meeting. If Arafat were actually serious he would have pushed for more meetings. He didn't.
These are the very start of negotiations that you claimed Palestinians wanted. They happened, but the Palestinians never seem interested in realizing them.
Have you read anything besides propaganda about this subject? Did you read the wiki link about the 2000 talks? Do you actually think what Abbas says is an admission of walking away from a legitimate deal? We know the reality is that he did not take Israel's first terms and the Israelis ultimately ended the talks.
Have you read anything besides propaganda?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 375 by Theodoric, posted 05-23-2024 4:16 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 377 by Theodoric, posted 05-24-2024 11:21 PM Taq has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9488
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 6.1


Message 377 of 482 (918809)
05-24-2024 11:21 PM
Reply to: Message 376 by Taq
05-24-2024 11:38 AM


Re: Israel is Recruiting the Next Generation of Hamas Fighters
Or you could read what people who were actually there saw?
Opinion | Fictions About the Failure At Camp David - The New York Times
Did you even bother to look at any of the sources mentioned here?
2000 Camp David Summit - Wikipedia

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 376 by Taq, posted 05-24-2024 11:38 AM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 378 by Taq, posted 05-28-2024 3:39 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10285
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 7.0


Message 378 of 482 (918821)
05-28-2024 3:39 PM
Reply to: Message 377 by Theodoric
05-24-2024 11:21 PM


Re: Israel is Recruiting the Next Generation of Hamas Fighters
Theodoric writes:
Or you could read what people who were actually there saw?
Opinion | Fictions About the Failure At Camp David - The New York Times
Did you even bother to look at any of the sources mentioned here?
Yes, I looked at them. It was pretty obvious that neither side was ultimately interested in a two state solution. However, Israel was willing to negotiate, the very thing that you said would lower radicalism.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 377 by Theodoric, posted 05-24-2024 11:21 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18603
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 379 of 482 (919651)
07-20-2024 12:55 AM


The Latest From The BBC
Two big news stories out of Israel.
UN top court says Israeli occupation of Palestinian territories is illegal
I predict that if Trump gets in, he will support Israel against the UN global community.
A rhetorical question that I ask is "How would you like it if the international governing body attempted to interfere with or condemn local politics and government??
Israeli man killed in drone attack on Tel Aviv
The Drone was launched by the Houthis. They now have the technology to bypass some defense systems.
Why do US Politicians put the job of stopping Israel in the hands of the U.N.?

Replies to this message:
 Message 380 by Theodoric, posted 07-20-2024 10:19 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 381 by Theodoric, posted 07-20-2024 3:05 PM Phat has replied
 Message 384 by PaulK, posted 07-21-2024 3:39 AM Phat has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9488
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 6.1


(2)
(1)
Message 380 of 482 (919657)
07-20-2024 10:19 AM
Reply to: Message 379 by Phat
07-20-2024 12:55 AM


Re: The Latest From The BBC
A rhetorical question that I ask is "How would you like it if the international governing body attempted to interfere with or condemn local politics and government?
But that isn't what is happening, is it?
Do you think we are all clueless and ignorant like you?
Here is a great rhetorical question.
What if Phat had a basic understanding of the subjects he tries to discuss?

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 379 by Phat, posted 07-20-2024 12:55 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9488
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 6.1


Message 381 of 482 (919659)
07-20-2024 3:05 PM
Reply to: Message 379 by Phat
07-20-2024 12:55 AM


Re: The Latest From The BBC
So no response? Just a down vote? You truly are pitiful. At one time you were pitiable, but that is long past.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 379 by Phat, posted 07-20-2024 12:55 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 382 by Phat, posted 07-20-2024 6:57 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18603
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 382 of 482 (919660)
07-20-2024 6:57 PM
Reply to: Message 381 by Theodoric
07-20-2024 3:05 PM


Re: The Latest From The BBC
How about you lay off the personal attacks?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 381 by Theodoric, posted 07-20-2024 3:05 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 383 by Theodoric, posted 07-20-2024 7:35 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 385 by Percy, posted 07-21-2024 7:54 AM Phat has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9488
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 6.1


Message 383 of 482 (919661)
07-20-2024 7:35 PM
Reply to: Message 382 by Phat
07-20-2024 6:57 PM


Re: The Latest From The BBC
How about you address peoples responses to your bullshit?

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 382 by Phat, posted 07-20-2024 6:57 PM Phat has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17897
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 8.0


Message 384 of 482 (919665)
07-21-2024 3:39 AM
Reply to: Message 379 by Phat
07-20-2024 12:55 AM


Re: The Latest From The BBC
quote:
A rhetorical question that I ask is "How would you like it if the international governing body attempted to interfere with or condemn local politics and government??
Seems like an international matter to me. Why do you think otherwise?
Indeed your attitude seems to be very much in agreement with China’s. How do you feel about what China is doing in Tibet or to the Uighurs? Do you think that Apartheid should have been ignored by the international community? That WAS a purely internal matter.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 379 by Phat, posted 07-20-2024 12:55 AM Phat has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22908
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 6.7


(2)
Message 385 of 482 (919666)
07-21-2024 7:54 AM
Reply to: Message 382 by Phat
07-20-2024 6:57 PM


Re: The Latest From The BBC
Phat writes in Message 382:
How about you lay off the personal attacks?
How much patience do you think people should be expected to have before they call you out on your continual turning of a deaf ear to what they say? People have shown great compassion over the years toward the issues you face, and you merely accept the compassion and never deal with your issues. Of course they eventually react.
But you're ignoring this feedback, too. No matter how harsh the criticism of your behavior here, you turn a blind eye to it and keep doing what you do. The kind of reactions you're getting shows that many have just had enough.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 382 by Phat, posted 07-20-2024 6:57 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 386 by Phat, posted 07-26-2024 5:00 AM Percy has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18603
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 3.1


(1)
Message 386 of 482 (919740)
07-26-2024 5:00 AM
Reply to: Message 385 by Percy
07-21-2024 7:54 AM


Re: The Latest From The BBC
Fair enough. I keep forgetting that Theodoric is a tough nut to crack, anyway. He (and all of you) eventually get through to me when I slow my internal processes down and try and respond rather than react to your messages. Respect is earned and never simply given.
So this is the latest latest from the BBC. (7/26/2024)
Harris tells Netanyahu 'it is time' to end war in Gaza
BBC:
US Vice-President Kamala Harris - who's expected to be the Democratic nominee for November's presidential election - has held what she called "frank and constructive" talks with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.
Striking a tougher tone than President Joe Biden, Ms Harris said she made clear her "serious concerns" about casualties in Gaza, telling Mr Netanyahu how Israel defended itself mattered.

To me, this was an impressive move by VP Harris. She showed herself tougher than even Joe. In addition, the move scored her points in the upcoming election. I was impressed.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 385 by Percy, posted 07-21-2024 7:54 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 387 by Percy, posted 07-26-2024 8:01 AM Phat has replied
 Message 388 by nwr, posted 07-26-2024 12:05 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22908
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 6.7


(4)
Message 387 of 482 (919742)
07-26-2024 8:01 AM
Reply to: Message 386 by Phat
07-26-2024 5:00 AM


Re: The Latest From The BBC
We can't be Israel's partner in crime against the Palestinians on the West Bank and in Gaza. Israel's actions are why the ICC is considering issuing arrest warrants for Netanyahu. They're why the ICJ issued an opinion saying that Israel was committing genocide in Gaza, that Israel was an apartheid state, that Palestine should be recognized as a sovereign state, and that Israel's occupation of Gaza and its human rights violations should end.
The ICC is concerned with international crimes by people, the ICJ (also known as the World Court) with those by countries.
Yes, Israel is our friend, but friends don't let friends commit genocide.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 386 by Phat, posted 07-26-2024 5:00 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 389 by Phat, posted 07-27-2024 3:43 PM Percy has replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6484
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 9.2


Message 388 of 482 (919744)
07-26-2024 12:05 PM
Reply to: Message 386 by Phat
07-26-2024 5:00 AM


Re: The Latest From The BBC
Phat writes in Message 386:
To me, this was an impressive move by VP Harris. She showed herself tougher than even Joe.
I'm pretty sure that Joe has also been telling Netanyahu that is time for hostilities to end. But perhaps Kamala said so in a more forceful way.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 386 by Phat, posted 07-26-2024 5:00 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18603
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 389 of 482 (919748)
07-27-2024 3:43 PM
Reply to: Message 387 by Percy
07-26-2024 8:01 AM


Re: The Latest From The BBC
Percy writes:
Israel's actions are why the ICC is considering issuing arrest warrants for Netanyahu. They're why the ICJ issued an opinion saying that Israel was committing genocide in Gaza,
There is no nation or governing body on earth that could arrest Netanyahu except the US and we won't betray our "friend".
Yes, Israel is our friend, but friends don't let friends commit genocide.
Friends may disagree strongly on such issues but no friend would betray Israel. If Harris or Biden tried it it would sink their popularity. Trump would likely support Israel first.
Palestine will be allowed back into the land if they swear off Hamas, but if they dont, they will be evicted.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 387 by Percy, posted 07-26-2024 8:01 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 390 by Percy, posted 07-28-2024 8:31 AM Phat has replied
 Message 391 by Theodoric, posted 07-28-2024 9:30 AM Phat has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22908
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 6.7


(2)
Message 390 of 482 (919749)
07-28-2024 8:31 AM
Reply to: Message 389 by Phat
07-27-2024 3:43 PM


Re: The Latest From The BBC
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 389 by Phat, posted 07-27-2024 3:43 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 392 by Phat, posted 07-28-2024 11:44 PM Percy has replied

  
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