The disconnect between the bible, and its horrific actions versus the message

Wrong attribution!

God said "fuck this, kill 'em all and let me sort it out afterwards" he gave up on everybody but Noah's family.

No. All of the people gave up on themselves and the idea of God and spread nothing but war, greed, and envy. They became the decisions that they freely made. So did Noah's family.This whole idea of outrage towards a hypothetical "God character is so misguided.We become the decisions that we make and will reap what we sow. No Creator owes you anything. Grow up.

Damn pesky kids. They need to suffer because of what other people did.

Stop and actually think.In the earliest parts of the Old Testament what is actually written just reflects on the unknown authors personal beliefs at the time. It is NOT monotheistic but rather very much polytheistic. It says "I am the Lord THY god. Thou shalt have no other gods Before me"; in other words 'I'm you Daddy and so listen to ME!' All the other gods were very real and there is nothing to suggest they were anything other than as real as Yahweh.The Gods were tied to one people, one geographic location and had to be worshiped at that location. Look at 2 Kings 5. Naaman get cured by a prophet of the Hebrew God and so wants to worship that god, so he asks for soil from the land and carries it back home like a prayer rug.The Gods were just like human rulers, tyrants or princes; good at times but capricious and evil at other times. They were often not kind but rather cruel. That definitely included Yahweh. Ask Abraham, Jonah and Job.The Gods were not all knowing. See Gen 18:15-33.Again Phat, these are all written and I've pointed them out to you numerous times over the decades but you choose to believe the Carny Barkers called Apologists that tell you that they don't really mean what is actually writtenThrow the Christianity and God and Jesus YOU created away.

That's you. Most conservative Christians take the flood story as literal truth and are therefore worshipping a monster. And the flood is just one of many OT examples. Again, that's you, not conservative Christians. I have a couple responses:

• How is preaching working for ya here so far?
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• And you know this how?

You have your own set of eclectic religious views about which you'll go on endlessly, continually and repeatedly cycling back to earlier issues which you left people feeling were settled, as captured in Choosing a faith.--Percy

And you know that how. I've been involved in church life for numerous years and I haven't met all that many Christians who would read that literally. Actually it's more of an American thing. Sure it's easier for the vast majority of posters on this forum so mock the strawman you have set up. I don't think I've changed any minds but I've tried to a show that to be a conservative Christian, (which is a label that you have attached), you don't have to conform to your strawman.I suppose I have repeated things that I've posted several times previously but just maybe I repeat them because posters here keep pounding away with the same attacks they have made all along.So as I'm sorry if I'm boring you and you can carry on carrying on.

Do if you look at the subset if people you knowand exclude everyone from the US you would be correct? Do you actually think what you write?What strawman? Point it out.
Maybe not be so boring and pitiful if you attempted to make amd support an actual argument.

That's not the point I get from the story. God gave up on a lot of people, those who weren't the one righteous person. God is telling us that if you aren't righteous then he will give up on you.

No one freely chose to drown. That was forced onto them. It's normal human behavior. We do it all of the time. Haven't you ever watched a movie? We are talking about a Creator who went out of his way to kill people. No one chose to die. The Creator chose to kill them.

That's true. It's funny though, that particular god of yours, the one in the bible, gives the impression of wanting to teach humanity it's brand of morality. One of the most effective methods of teaching is by example and the god of the bible is a bloody monstrous tyrant who claims to love us. That's the morality that christian and jewish religions have drummed into their believers for thousands of years, violence and greed and oppressions.Sorry, but you can never convince anyone that drowning every living thing is a rational solution for misbehavior by some members of one species! This story is just plain stupid! A being powerful enough to create a planet and then creating life, would fix it rather than destroy it all.If the god you believe in was real, I would try to get as far away as possible. The god character in your story is playing the role of evil villain, not benevolent parent in my opinion. And benevolent parent is exactly the god portrayed in the bible, except when violence is required. The god who created everything can't cure a few people and loses controls and kills everything, but without leaving a single trace of evidence of this global killing event, nothing, none. Yep, it's as if no creator exists. None of us can see, hear, touch or in any way detect or interact in any way with your god. We can live our lives as if your god is imaginary and never expect it to contact us and never expect help if we ask for it.

And I know that there are no such things as blizzards or tornados or hurricanes because in my 66 years of living in Southern California I have never experienced either of those things. Therefore from my personal experience, there's no such thing.In both your and my case, our sampling is highly biased by not being where such things happen. You just happened to have been in non-YEC churches, but there are many fundie churches which are YEC in which they require that you believe that Noah's Flood literally happened in order to be a "true Christian" (therefore, those "Christians" of whom you speak weren't really Christians). Similarly, Percy's and our perception is also strongly biased by the parade of YECs who insist on the literal truth of Noah's Flood (eg, do you remember Faith and the complete and utter nonsense claims she made?)Also, I had an email correspondence with a Canadian YEC, so I know from personal experience that they do exist.BTW, I did serve five winters in the cold part of North Dakota and experienced a couple blizzards there. It was nothing like in the movies where the wind is howling. No howling wind in the real thing -- actually no wind for that matter -- , just silence as tons of snow fell softly from the sky reducing visibility on the ground to maybe 100 feet. Yes, for the most part YEC has been exported from the USA, but like any self-respecting invasive species it has taken root and flourishes in foreign lands like Australia and Canada. Even in the formation of YEC Canadians contributed; eg, George McCready Price from whom Dr. Henry Morris ("Father of Flood Geology") stole whole his ideas without attribution. And many YouTube videos addressing creationist claims address videos by Canadian creationists (eg, Viced Rhino's critiques of Calvin Smith of Answers in Genesis Canada). Oh, and Ken Ham of "Ark Experience" infamy is from Australia.Again, if you haven't traveled in those circles then you wouldn't be aware of them. The reason is not because of them, but rather because of your own inattentiveness. Not a strawman, since the creationists of whom we speak do actually exist.Also, I turn a jaundiced eye to such sweeping uninformed denials. For example, when trying to discuss with creationists whenever I would mention the creationist "why are there still monkeys?" "question", the creationist would attack me for strawmanning and would deny that any creationist would actually say something so completely stupid as that. And yet, in my four decades with creationism I have personally witnessed creationists using that exact claim several times in the wild and totally of their own volition (indeed, they were the ones to bring it up). Furthermore, when Dr. Jonathan Sarfati of Answers in Genesis published their to-my-knowledge-first article of "Claims We Wish Creationists Would Not Use" (2002), that list included "Why are there still monkeys?", which indicates that that question was so prevalent that they felt they had to address it -- BTW, Sarfati had to respond to a professional creationist, Kent Hovind, who lambasted their article because he himself used many of those really bad claims (I quote from Sarfati's response here -- Sarfati even issues the same warnings as I have for decades, that false creationist claims kill faith and lead to atheism). Again, not a strawman.But my impression of you has been that you are at least reasonable in sharp contrast to the likes of candle2 (only the latest in a long parade of mindless creationist drones). One at least has a chance to engage you in a discussion, something that YECs et alia work tirelessly to prevent.

If I ever found that Phat's god was real, I would tell that god to stuff it. Do it's worst.Spit in it's face. Nothing that demands worship is worthy of worship.

Particularly all the little children and animals who had done nothing to deserve death.Perhaps SHE said "Suffer the little children to come unto me" as the waters got really high for a better view.

Seriously? You've been here since 2005 and somehow missed the parade of creationists arguing about the Grand Canyon and geologic layers and Mount St. Helens and radiometric dating and slow light and the impossibility of evolution and the literal truth of the Bible? Did you never go to the religious section of bookstores in the 1990s and early 2000s and see all the books dedicated to creationism? I created this site because of the very active debate between creation and evolution. And you're asking how I know that most conservative Christians take the flood story literally? Strawman? Again, have you been reading the posts on this site or not? How you could read anything by Faith, ICANT, randman, riVeRraT, Buzsaw, mike the wiz, frako, Dredge and so on and say we're creating a strawman? Then there's organizations like ICR and CRS, all the people cheering on Duane Gish at his "debates", the Answers in Genesis Ark Encounter park that draws nearly a million visitors a year, Kitzmiller v. Dover and all the efforts to get Genesis taught in schools, and on and on. A strawman? That's just delusional. Please don't be this absurd.--Percy