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Author
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Topic: The Salesmen of the Green New Deal
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Taq
Member Posts: 10302 Joined: 03-06-2009 Member Rating: 7.1
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Message 91 of 181 (919394)
07-08-2024 3:01 PM
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Reply to: Message 90 by Percy
07-08-2024 1:46 PM
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Re: Be nice
Percy writes: The EPA was founded in 1970, but there were efforts to clean up pollution even before that. Pittsburgh, where I went to grad school, had a small skyscraper on campus called the Cathedral of Learning which was black on the windward side due to pollution from steel mills. They would clean it every five or ten years. Smog in LA in 1958:  I was born in 1974, so I kind of caught the tail end of the worst of it. I do remember leaded gasoline being everywhere. If I remember correctly, people my age are amongst the last children to have experienced dangerous lead levels due to leaded gas.
By the way, we'll be experiencing 4 consecutive 90 degree days this week, no records, but consistent with having more warm days during the summer.
102 to 109 hi's for the next 7 days where I am (Boise, ID). At least it cools off at night and the mornings are in the 70's.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 90 by Percy, posted 07-08-2024 1:46 PM | | Percy has not replied |
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Tanypteryx
Member Posts: 4597 From: Oregon, USA Joined: 08-27-2006 Member Rating: 9.2
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Message 92 of 181 (919399)
07-08-2024 4:59 PM
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Reply to: Message 88 by Theodoric
07-08-2024 12:34 PM
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Re: Still unanswered questions about halon and its use
They are curious to see what this yahoo comes up with. I am too, but I'm not holding my breath. So far, he has spent his time quibbling that what each of us said about CFCs being greenhouse gases wasn't the exact same words. I guess he expects pro-science people to follow a script, because that's what he seems to be doing. We have seen this technique of arguing about minute details rather than ever answering questions about what he's already said and its implications. He's the one who presented this topic and made statements that were devoid of details that we could look up for ourselves. So far all we've got from him are baseless assertions without supporting evidence that is refuted by 30 years of scientific research by hundreds of thousands of scientists from around the planet. This whole topic seems like an attempt to use the environmental movement as evidence that America is turning away from Jesus and that God is going to smite the Holy Crap out of all of us. And if we only had Halon we could quench the fires of hell!
Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned! What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3 If you are going to argue that evolution is false because it resembles your own beliefs then perhaps you should rethink your argument. - - Taq
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 88 by Theodoric, posted 07-08-2024 12:34 PM | | Theodoric has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 97 by Taq, posted 07-09-2024 11:16 AM | | Tanypteryx has replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9489 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 6.1
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Message 93 of 181 (919401)
07-09-2024 8:53 AM
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Reply to: Message 78 by USA 1776
07-08-2024 3:05 AM
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Halon redux
I was told by one of the fire fighters I know that there are/were only two types of halon extinguishers. This site explains both.
quote:
Types Of Halon Fire Extinguisher
Halon 1211 is used only in portable extinguishers and is a streaming agent. A halon fire extinguisher extinguisher has a limited range, usually 4 to 6 feet.
Halon 1301 is used only in fixed extinguisher installations and is a total flooding agent. This type of extinguisher is commonly found in computer server rooms and clean rooms.
Halon Fire Extinguisher: How It Works And Its Limitations Tell us how these would have been used in HI and on 9/11.
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 78 by USA 1776, posted 07-08-2024 3:05 AM | | USA 1776 has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 94 by jar, posted 07-09-2024 9:37 AM | | Theodoric has not replied | | | Message 95 by Tanypteryx, posted 07-09-2024 10:09 AM | | Theodoric has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 96 days) Posts: 34140 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 94 of 181 (919402)
07-09-2024 9:37 AM
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Reply to: Message 93 by Theodoric
07-09-2024 8:53 AM
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Re: Halon redux
One of the limitations of a total flooding agent is that it only works in an enclosed space, and once the planes hit the towers there was no longer an enclosed space. Windows were blown out all over the buildings, walls and even floors breached. Sometimes reality sucks.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 93 by Theodoric, posted 07-09-2024 8:53 AM | | Theodoric has not replied |
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Tanypteryx
Member Posts: 4597 From: Oregon, USA Joined: 08-27-2006 Member Rating: 9.2
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Message 95 of 181 (919404)
07-09-2024 10:09 AM
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Reply to: Message 93 by Theodoric
07-09-2024 8:53 AM
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Re: Halon redux
Halon 1301 is used only in fixed extinguisher installations and is a total flooding agent. So what happens to people in a room flooded with halon?
Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned! What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3 If you are going to argue that evolution is false because it resembles your own beliefs then perhaps you should rethink your argument. - - Taq
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 93 by Theodoric, posted 07-09-2024 8:53 AM | | Theodoric has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 96 by nwr, posted 07-09-2024 10:56 AM | | Tanypteryx has replied |
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nwr
Member Posts: 6484 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: 08-08-2005 Member Rating: 8.7
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Message 96 of 181 (919405)
07-09-2024 10:56 AM
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Reply to: Message 95 by Tanypteryx
07-09-2024 10:09 AM
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Re: Halon redux
They die. They will suffocate because there's no oxygen.
USA 1776 was spewing bullshit.
Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 95 by Tanypteryx, posted 07-09-2024 10:09 AM | | Tanypteryx has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 98 by Tanypteryx, posted 07-09-2024 1:04 PM | | nwr has seen this message but not replied |
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Taq
Member Posts: 10302 Joined: 03-06-2009 Member Rating: 7.1
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Re: Still unanswered questions about halon and its use
Tanypteryx writes: He's the one who presented this topic and made statements that were devoid of details that we could look up for ourselves. So far all we've got from him are baseless assertions without supporting evidence that is refuted by 30 years of scientific research by hundreds of thousands of scientists from around the planet. There's also some really poor logic. He seems to be arguing that CFC's are incapable of depleting the ozone layer because one of the CFC's is useful for putting out fires. He might as well argue that asbestos is completely safe because it is very useful for insulating hot objects. To be fair, the ozone layer does play a very minor role in global climate. However, it is a very small percentage compared to the impacts caused by carbon emissions. There's also the fact that CFC emissions have been drastically cut, so they aren't expected to have any long term effects.
quote:
Ozone depletion and climate change are linked in a number of ways, but ozone depletion is not a major cause of climate change.
Ozone Depletion and Climate Change
- Defra, UK
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 92 by Tanypteryx, posted 07-08-2024 4:59 PM | | Tanypteryx has replied |
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Tanypteryx
Member Posts: 4597 From: Oregon, USA Joined: 08-27-2006 Member Rating: 9.2
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Message 98 of 181 (919408)
07-09-2024 1:04 PM
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Reply to: Message 96 by nwr
07-09-2024 10:56 AM
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Re: Halon redux
They die. They will suffocate because there's no oxygen.
Well, that's better than water then. I have noticed that people drowning during a fire is quite rare, though.
USA 1776 was spewing bullshit. It will put out fires too, but it's stinky.
Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned! What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3 If you are going to argue that evolution is false because it resembles your own beliefs then perhaps you should rethink your argument. - - Taq
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 96 by nwr, posted 07-09-2024 10:56 AM | | nwr has seen this message but not replied |
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Tanypteryx
Member Posts: 4597 From: Oregon, USA Joined: 08-27-2006 Member Rating: 9.2
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Message 99 of 181 (919409)
07-09-2024 1:19 PM
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Reply to: Message 97 by Taq
07-09-2024 11:16 AM
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Re: Still unanswered questions about halon and its use
He seems to be arguing that CFC's are incapable of depleting the ozone layer because one of the CFC's is useful for putting out fires. And also that, "environmentalists disagreeing about that are modern day examples of those who "suppress the truth in unrighteousness, in order to maintain and serve their evil interests, and they serve and worship money, power and the created, rather than the Creator. They prefer not to retain God in their knowledge, and as a result, many other problems follow." Funny, that sounds like an accurate description of fossil fuel executives, rather than the environmentalists I'm familiar with...drill baby drill and give us our "tax subsidies" now and forever.
Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned! What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3 If you are going to argue that evolution is false because it resembles your own beliefs then perhaps you should rethink your argument. - - Taq
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 97 by Taq, posted 07-09-2024 11:16 AM | | Taq has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 100 by Taq, posted 07-09-2024 5:50 PM | | Tanypteryx has replied |
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Taq
Member Posts: 10302 Joined: 03-06-2009 Member Rating: 7.1
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Re: Still unanswered questions about halon and its use
Tanypteryx writes: And also that, "environmentalists disagreeing about that are modern day examples of those who "suppress the truth in unrighteousness, in order to maintain and serve their evil interests, and they serve and worship money, power and the created, rather than the Creator. They prefer not to retain God in their knowledge, and as a result, many other problems follow." Yeah, it's just the same ol' "pwn the libs" attitude. It appears Truth Social can spill over onto EvC once in a while. Those evil, evil people who think it's a bad idea to deplete our ozone layer and warm our planet with carbon emissions. I guess if the world is created by God physics stops working or something so we don't have to worry about the consequences of pollution.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 99 by Tanypteryx, posted 07-09-2024 1:19 PM | | Tanypteryx has replied |
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Tanypteryx
Member Posts: 4597 From: Oregon, USA Joined: 08-27-2006 Member Rating: 9.2
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Message 101 of 181 (919411)
07-09-2024 6:15 PM
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Reply to: Message 100 by Taq
07-09-2024 5:50 PM
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Re: Still unanswered questions about halon and its use
I guess if the world is created by God physics stops working or something so we don't have to worry about the consequences of pollution. Flood physics. Yeah, their other get out of jail free card is that as long as Armageddon is looming it won't be noticed anyway.
Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned! What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3 If you are going to argue that evolution is false because it resembles your own beliefs then perhaps you should rethink your argument. - - Taq
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 100 by Taq, posted 07-09-2024 5:50 PM | | Taq has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 102 by jar, posted 07-09-2024 8:29 PM | | Tanypteryx has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 96 days) Posts: 34140 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: Still unanswered questions about halon and its use
Gone home to report that all the atheists were stumped by simple questions.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 101 by Tanypteryx, posted 07-09-2024 6:15 PM | | Tanypteryx has not replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9489 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 6.1
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Message 103 of 181 (919413)
07-09-2024 8:35 PM
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Reply to: Message 102 by jar
07-09-2024 8:29 PM
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Re: Still unanswered questions about halon and its use
Now to see if he responds with more stupidity or tells his pastor how he taught us a lesson. Fuck being nice.
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 102 by jar, posted 07-09-2024 8:29 PM | | jar has not replied |
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dwise1
Member Posts: 6077 Joined: 05-02-2006 Member Rating: 7.2
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Message 104 of 181 (919414)
07-09-2024 10:35 PM
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Reply to: Message 102 by jar
07-09-2024 8:29 PM
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Re: Still unanswered questions about halon and its use
Gone home to report that all the atheists were stumped by simple questions. From my quotes page:
quote:
Scott D. Weitzenhoffer from his amazon.com review of Eugenie Scotts’ book Evolution Vs. Creationism: An introduction (2004):
"Debating creationists on the topic of evolution is rather like trying to play chess with a pigeon; it knocks the pieces over, craps on the board, and flies back to its flock to claim victory."
And yet again my reposting of a Quora post describing that such postings are not intended to convince anyone except for the poster who uses his hateful conduct to stir up animosity towards him so that he can reinforce his fantasy that we hate his message when the actual fact is that we hate stupid assholes like him. My Message 301:
That means that they don't care about the evidence, they don't care about the truth, and they don't even want to convince us about anything. All they care about is convincing themselves and keeping themselves convinced. I've posted this before from Quora, but it's been a year so here it is again:
quote:
Why do people get angry when I try to share the word of God with them? I only do it because I care about them deeply and don't want them to end up in hell. I feel like some people avoid me because of this. Is there any way to get through to them? by Doug Robertson, studied at University of Maine
Updated Dec 11 2018 The entire process is not what you think it is. It is specifically designed to be uncomfortable for the other person because it isn't about converting them to your religion. It is about manipulating you so you can't leave yours. If this tactic was about converting people it would be considered a horrible failure. It recruits almost no one who isn't already willing to join. Bake sales are more effective recruiting tools. On the other hand, it is extremely effective at creating a deep tribal feeling among its own members. The rejection they receive is actually more important than the few people they convert. It causes them to feel a level of discomfort around the people they attempt to talk to. These become the "others". These uncomfortable feelings go away when they come back to their congregation, the "Tribe". If you take a good look at the process it becomes fairly clear. In most cases, the religious person starts out from their own group, who is encouraging and supportive. They are then sent out into the harsh world where people repeatedly reject them. Mainly because they are trained to be so annoying. These brave witnesses then return from the cruel world to their congregation where they are treated like returning heroes. They are now safe. They bond as they share their experiences of reaching out to the godless people to bring them the truth. They share the otherness they experience. Once again they will learn that the only place they are accepted is with the people who think as they do. It isn't safe to leave the group. The world is your enemy, but we love you. This is a pain reward cycle that is a common brainwashing technique. The participants become more and more reliant on the "Tribe" because they know that "others" reject them. Mix in some ritualized chanting, possibly a bit of monotonous repetition of instructions, add a dash of fear of judgment by an unseen, but all-powerful entity who loves you if you do as you are told and you get a pretty powerful mix. Sorry, I have absolutely no wish to participate in someone's brainwashing ritual.
That's all that ICANT is doing with this topic: convincing himself. He has no intention nor interest on convincing us about anything, rather he is only interested in keeping himself deceived.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 102 by jar, posted 07-09-2024 8:29 PM | | jar has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 105 by Percy, posted 07-10-2024 9:23 AM | | dwise1 has not replied |
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Percy
Member Posts: 22953 From: New Hampshire Joined: 12-23-2000 Member Rating: 6.9
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Message 105 of 181 (919419)
07-10-2024 9:23 AM
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Reply to: Message 104 by dwise1
07-09-2024 10:35 PM
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Re: Still unanswered questions about halon and its use
ICANT and Ringo may be in the same place now. Could be very interesting. --Percy
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 104 by dwise1, posted 07-09-2024 10:35 PM | | dwise1 has not replied |
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