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Author Topic:   2024 US Presidential Election
jar
Member
Posts: 34061
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 1037 of 1056 (918975)
06-10-2024 8:18 PM
Reply to: Message 1036 by Tanypteryx
06-10-2024 8:06 PM


Re: some facts related to President Biden:
Yes, you are correct.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1036 by Tanypteryx, posted 06-10-2024 8:06 PM Tanypteryx has not replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34061
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.8


(1)
Message 1038 of 1056 (918976)
06-11-2024 1:23 PM


Hunter Biden found guilty.
Although it's surprising that the case against Hunter Biden for lying on a 4473 form was ever even considered, there was never any doubt that he was guilty. There is a check box related to illicit drug use (but not alcohol) on the 4473 form and he was an admitted drug addict. He did buy and own the gun for 11 days, it was never used to commit any crime but he did lie on the form.
Now what is interesting. Joe Biden was asked if he would accept the outcome of the trial and his answer was "Yes". He was asked if he would grant a pardon (since it is a federal offense he does have the right and capability to issue a pardon) and his answer was "No".
Contrast Joe Biden's respect for the rule of law even when his son may face prison time (actually I hate that part since prison is really not the best option for trying to recover from drug addiction) to Trump's reaction to the rule of law.

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10158
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 1039 of 1056 (918977)
06-11-2024 1:40 PM
Reply to: Message 1033 by LamarkNewAge
06-10-2024 3:46 PM


Re: some facts related to President Biden:
LNA writes:
I do NOT agree that Biden allowing in 2,500 asylum seekers in, a day, counts as PRO IMMIGRATION. I think "allowing" in 900,000 prospective migrants a year (at most), is already a border "shut down". "And you agree that the shutdowns are temporary", is not going to get me to say that your post is anything but inaccurate.
Biden wants to let in more people than the public wants to let in. Biden's recent policies reflect a political decision, a way of shoring up votes for November. The truth of the matter is that the public isn't following Biden's lead on this one. It's the other way around. If Biden did take on the policies you seem to want him to take he might very well lose the presidential election.
If the Democrats had chosen to nominate someone other than Biden they would be wiping the floor with Trump. If the Republicans had nominated someone else other than Trump they would probably win by a significant margin, for a Republican nominee. That's the reality of it. Biden has approached this problem by moving towards the political center while Trump has chose to move to the Far Right. Biden's move is the saner of the two, and it is a question if Trump is even capable of moderating his speech or views.
If meaningful immigration reform is your goal, then electing a lame duck Biden is your best bet, as is a Democratic House and Senate. It certainly isn't Trump.
He also wants it enshrined that he will never be charged again.
Trolls say the darndest things. If you think anyone in the Justice Department would allow someone to break any laws they liked for the rest of their lives in exchange for a guilty plea on a misdemeanor then I question your ability to do something as simple as tie your shoelaces.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1033 by LamarkNewAge, posted 06-10-2024 3:46 PM LamarkNewAge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1040 by nwr, posted 06-11-2024 1:52 PM Taq has replied
 Message 1045 by LamarkNewAge, posted 06-12-2024 5:21 AM Taq has replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6421
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 4.1


(1)
Message 1040 of 1056 (918978)
06-11-2024 1:52 PM
Reply to: Message 1039 by Taq
06-11-2024 1:40 PM


Re: some facts related to President Biden:
Taq writes in Message 1039:
If the Democrats had chosen to nominate someone other than Biden they would be wiping the floor with Trump.
I'm not at all sure about that. At present, I'm not seeing a Democrat who would "wipe the floor". Mythical nameless democrats don't count.
If the Republicans had nominated someone else other than Trump they would probably win by a significant margin, for a Republican nominee.
This is possibly true. But it would depend on how the Trump base reacted, and that's hard to predict.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1039 by Taq, posted 06-11-2024 1:40 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1042 by Taq, posted 06-11-2024 4:13 PM nwr has seen this message but not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4504
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 1041 of 1056 (918983)
06-11-2024 4:03 PM
Reply to: Message 1033 by LamarkNewAge
06-10-2024 3:46 PM


Re: some facts related to President Biden:
LamarkNewAge writes in Message 1033:
Hunter Biden is also hoping he can use the trial to get what he wants - a deal to be protected from future chargres.
Considering that he expected to be convicted and indeed he was convicted, your statement is absurd.
LamarkNewAge writes in Message 1033:
(Hunter might not be so slick, he opened the door to laptop testimony and cross examination of the FBI Special Agent - who admitted that the laptop probably was not tampered with, which hurts Joe Biden & helps Trump. But he feels like he has a better chance of a future federal prosecution ban. For some reason.)
It's no surprise that you have been incorrect ... lying ... swimming in an Olympic sized pool of BULLSHIT about Hunter Biden.
And surprise, surprise there was no mention of any laptops in any of the 3 charges he was convicted on, and in fact, I challenge you to provide any documented evidence of a computer, proven to belong to Hunter Biden, in existence in an evidence locker anywhere on Planet Earth, let alone a computer containing any evidence of criminal acts committed by Hunter Biden.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3
If you are going to argue that evolution is false because it resembles your own beliefs then perhaps you should rethink your argument. - - Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1033 by LamarkNewAge, posted 06-10-2024 3:46 PM LamarkNewAge has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10158
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 1042 of 1056 (918984)
06-11-2024 4:13 PM
Reply to: Message 1040 by nwr
06-11-2024 1:52 PM


Re: some facts related to President Biden:
nwr writes:
I'm not at all sure about that. At present, I'm not seeing a Democrat who would "wipe the floor".
In my opinion, Gavin Newsom would perform much better in the upcoming election. However, I can certainly see the other side of the argument. A 71 year old Biden would also wipe the floor with Trump.
This is possibly true. But it would depend on how the Trump base reacted, and that's hard to predict.
Agreed. I suspect they would rally around the Anti-Biden flag, though. Also, any other candidate would be hyped by nearly all of the MAGA mouthpieces (e.g. Fox News, Ben Shapiro, Tucker Carlson), so I think it would work. However, someone could pull a Ross Perot and try to get some of those MAGA votes. A Marjorie Taylor Greene and (insert MAGA crazy) third party ticket would be like watching a slow motion clown car accident. Might be good for the lols.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1040 by nwr, posted 06-11-2024 1:52 PM nwr has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34061
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 1043 of 1056 (918985)
06-11-2024 4:36 PM


My problem
My problem is that we are truly in an oligarchy and I see no way that has a reasonable probability of changing that. Two things would be needed and both seem utterly impossible to happen in my lifetime. First Citizens United needs to be repealed and second government needs to become consensus based.
But I'm old and the oligarchs are convinced they can manage whomever gets elected at the federal level. The German oligarchs and Russian oligarchs thought similarly.

Replies to this message:
 Message 1044 by Taq, posted 06-11-2024 4:53 PM jar has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10158
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 1044 of 1056 (918986)
06-11-2024 4:53 PM
Reply to: Message 1043 by jar
06-11-2024 4:36 PM


Re: My problem
jar writes:
My problem is that we are truly in an oligarchy and I see no way that has a reasonable probability of changing that. Two things would be needed and both seem utterly impossible to happen in my lifetime. First Citizens United needs to be repealed and second government needs to become consensus based.
We would need a rewrite of the constitution in order to form a party based parliamentary system. Our form of winner-take-all almost guarantees a two party system which discourages consensus building.
Getting money out of political campaigns would be of great help. This would include getting rid of political action committees.
But I'm old and the oligarchs are convinced they can manage whomever gets elected at the federal level. The German oligarchs and Russian oligarchs thought similarly.
Trump has openly asked for a billion dollars in trade for deregulation of the oil industry. Trump doesn't even have the decency to use a fig leaf.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1043 by jar, posted 06-11-2024 4:36 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1050 by jar, posted 06-12-2024 11:31 AM Taq has replied

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 2496
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 1045 of 1056 (918988)
06-12-2024 5:21 AM
Reply to: Message 1039 by Taq
06-11-2024 1:40 PM


Legal example of possible Hunter Biden strategy.
I am on my week long, ban, but I want to clarify what I meant.
Example.
An officer in Maryland, Brian Murphy, was charged with 10 counts of child pornography possession, in the most conservative county in Maryland (toughest sentences). He plead not guilty. He was found guilty of all 10 counts. He appealed. The jury & judge examined the images, and decided only 5 were certainly under-18 images.
Guilty of 5 counts
He was sentenced to one year - suspended. He was banned from using the Internet for life, got a $2,500 fine, community service, probation. He was punched in the face, by a 12 year old girls dad; he baby sitted the girl.
Local politicians bitched at the "light" sentence. They complained that the argument for a "small amount of porn " being used as a reason for the sentence, by the judge, ignored the fact that he probably had much more porn before he formatted/erased his hard drive weeks prior to the police search warrent.
Prior to the trial - but after the 10 charges were filed, he was discovered to have another illegal image on his computer. Unlike the 5 unsaved images (thumbnail images he was found guilty of possessing), this was a saved image. It featured a composite
image, which included a picture in a picture. It was a picture of an erect penis with an image of the 12 year old girl by the genitals.
The judge said he gave a suspended sentence for "leverage" - the judge said it was "obvious" Murphy would appeal the verdict.
This was just step one for a man soon to face much tougher charges.
Murphy's lawyers were quoted, in the media, saving the erect penis, in the photo,could belong to anyone, and other people had access to the computer. He was under investigation, but not charged. He had his sentence for the conviction of 5 charges pending appeal verdict.
It ended up sorting itself out with the state agreeing to drop charges for the manufactured image, if Murphy decided to drop the appeal of his old sentence. Murphy's lawyers said this was just what they wanted all along.
But the story is not over for Murphy. The then twelve year old girl (2007/8), has since turned adult, and she is saying he touched her when she was 8-12. He is on trial - presently, over 15 years later.
Hunter Biden:
He wants an agreement to not be charged for crimes he was under investigation for (we don't know the details of the exact agreement, and how broad the relevant issues are), that is why he yook these charges to trial.
It is a fact that "leverage" is a legal strategy for all sides. Brian Murphy plead NOT GUILTY on mere possession of thumbnail images, which were a violation of Maryland State law, in 2007 (not after, as they are seen as not deliberately possessing, via the "possession with intent to retain" language), but his legal fight was what enabled him to get the much more serious charge dropped. It was a charge that never came. Manufactured image. It was discovered after his 10 thumbnail possession charges were filed.
Lawyers are actually pretty good at thinking ahead.
Think about it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1039 by Taq, posted 06-11-2024 1:40 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1046 by PaulK, posted 06-12-2024 7:36 AM LamarkNewAge has replied
 Message 1051 by Taq, posted 06-12-2024 11:33 AM LamarkNewAge has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17838
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.8


(1)
Message 1046 of 1056 (918990)
06-12-2024 7:36 AM
Reply to: Message 1045 by LamarkNewAge
06-12-2024 5:21 AM


Re: Legal example of possible Hunter Biden strategy.
quote:
I am on my week long, ban, but I want to clarify what I meant.
So why didn’t you do that? The point was to somehow support the idea that Biden’s Executive Order can’t be revoked because you think it will become legislation. But rather obviously the mere fact that you think something will happen in no way proves that it has already happened - or even that it will happen before the beginning of the next Presidential term.
And you really don’t even clarify the situation with the proposed plea deal for Hunter Biden.
Murphy did not make a plea deal. You don’t give any reason to think that a plea deal would have prevented charging him over the additional picture and that charge was dropped anyway. And a plea deal like Hunter Biden’s would not have covered the charges that have now been raised.
If your point is simply that defence lawyers do the best they can to defend their client then it is both trivial and utterly irrelevant. Indeed this looks solely like an excuse to mention child porn in proximity to Biden in a clumsy attempt at guilt by association.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1045 by LamarkNewAge, posted 06-12-2024 5:21 AM LamarkNewAge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1047 by LamarkNewAge, posted 06-12-2024 7:51 AM PaulK has replied

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 2496
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 1047 of 1056 (918991)
06-12-2024 7:51 AM
Reply to: Message 1046 by PaulK
06-12-2024 7:36 AM


Re: Legal example of possible Hunter Biden strategy.
Was that last sentence, sarcastic?
Incase you are, serious, let me clarify
Murphy took a risk in pleading NOT GUILTY. The federal judges, in Maryland will typically let child porn defenders plead guilty, and get get years (30 months per charge of possession, and guilty plea to 2 counts), or give 30 to 35 years to someone who pleads NOT GUILTY but looses.
This was a state charge, however. 10 counts - then in 2007 - could only get you 10 years max, and every child porn sentence (then) had at least half of it suspended. So no worse than 5 years, plus everyone gets out after serving 1/3 sentence due to parole.
(Not the biggest risk, I suppose)
He probably could have been guaranteed a plea deal where most of the 10 charges were dropped, and a suspended sentence could have gotten - perhaps - any where from no time to months.
He refused and it might have been because he knew he had the scary manufactured image charge down the pipeline.
I am saying Murphy decided to play the LONG GAME.
HUNTER BIDEN:
He is taking a chance at getting jail time for not pleading NOT GUILTY.
He is playing the long game.
He will appear a guilty verdict. (?)
He will loose the second verdict. (?)
He will be sentenced.
He will appeal the sentence.
Murphy did it all.
It resulted in other things not being persued - ultimately.
Biden feels he can loose wars, and have everybody right where he wants them.
Possibly.
(Done posting for a week)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1046 by PaulK, posted 06-12-2024 7:36 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1048 by Admin, posted 06-12-2024 8:22 AM LamarkNewAge has not replied
 Message 1049 by PaulK, posted 06-12-2024 8:53 AM LamarkNewAge has not replied

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 13082
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 1048 of 1056 (918992)
06-12-2024 8:22 AM
Reply to: Message 1047 by LamarkNewAge
06-12-2024 7:51 AM


Moderator Information
The workaround you're using to continue posting will no longer work.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
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PaulK
Member
Posts: 17838
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.8


(1)
Message 1049 of 1056 (918993)
06-12-2024 8:53 AM
Reply to: Message 1047 by LamarkNewAge
06-12-2024 7:51 AM


Re: Legal example of possible Hunter Biden strategy.
quote:
Was that last sentence, sarcastic
Why would it be sarcastic? There’s no other even vaguely rational reason for bringing up that case.
quote:
He probably could have been guaranteed a plea deal where most of the 10 charges were dropped, and a suspended sentence could have gotten - perhaps - any where from no time to months.

He refused and it might have been because he knew he had the scary manufactured image charge down the pipeline.
I don’t see why he would have refused to accept a plea bargain on the charges already filed just because a more serious charge might turn up. What difference would it make? And that’s if a plea bargain was even offered - you obviously don’t know that there was an offer.
quote:
I am saying Murphy decided to play the LONG GAME
No, you really aren’t. Nothing you’ve said indicates that Murphy was doing anything more than trying to escape conviction. And pleading Not Guilty was his only hope of that.
Re Hunter Biden
quote:
He will appear a guilty verdict
The guilty verdict came in yesterday. Apparently an appeal is likely (and might stand a good chance of success), but that really doesn’t change anything.
quote:
Murphy did it all.

It resulted in other things not being persued - ultimately.
The only thing that wasn’t pursued was the charge over the composite image, and that was because Murphy’s lawyers raised doubts about the evidence - not because of Murphy’s plea or anything that could be called a “long game”. You haven’t even mentioned any appeals (nor have I found any evidence of appeals). And in fact Murphy was sentenced to 45 years jail for the sexual assaults. Yahoo News.
And still none of it is relevant to the fact that Biden’s Executive Order is an Executive Order and can be revoked by whoever is President at the time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1047 by LamarkNewAge, posted 06-12-2024 7:51 AM LamarkNewAge has not replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34061
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 1050 of 1056 (918994)
06-12-2024 11:31 AM
Reply to: Message 1044 by Taq
06-11-2024 4:53 PM


Re: My problem
Taq writes:
We would need a rewrite of the constitution in order to form a party based parliamentary system. Our form of winner-take-all almost guarantees a two party system which discourages consensus building.
Long long away and Far far ago, the two political parties were not monolithic, each party had a more liberal and more conservative voice as well as the much larger centralist body. Even the wings were a spectrum of positions rather than one voice. That led to a greater consensus/compromise process than what we see today.
Taq writes:
Getting money out of political campaigns would be of great help. This would include getting rid of political action committees.
But to do that the very people that profit the most would have to be the ones to overturn Citizens United. It is possible and has happened in the past, votes for women was the result of all male legislators voting to expand the right.
BUT, it doesn't happen often.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1044 by Taq, posted 06-11-2024 4:53 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1052 by Taq, posted 06-12-2024 11:45 AM jar has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10158
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.4


(2)
Message 1051 of 1056 (918995)
06-12-2024 11:33 AM
Reply to: Message 1045 by LamarkNewAge
06-12-2024 5:21 AM


Re: Legal example of possible Hunter Biden strategy.
LNA writes:
He wants an agreement to not be charged for crimes he was under investigation for (we don't know the details of the exact agreement, and how broad the relevant issues are), that is why he yook these charges to trial.
Hunter Biden was offered a standard plea bargain. The prosecution offered to drop some charges in exchange for a guilty plea on other charges, probably witha a promise of probation, community service, and perhaps counseling. This happens all of the time in the US. There's nothing special here. All of the charges were non-violent offenses, and he was a first time offender. Lying on government form about your drug addiction is not on the same level as child pornography.
The only thing that was different is that Hunter's case was politicized which forced the prosecution to withdraw a standard plea agreement.
Added in edit: I have known some people who have pled guilty to DUI's. If they are first time offenders they will often not face jail time. In exchange, they do quite a bit of community service, are on probation, and have to attend counseling. If they follow all of these requirements they will often have their conviction expunged. Why? The government is interested in justice and reducing recidivism, not punishment. The government correctly understands that a carrot is often better than a stick.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1045 by LamarkNewAge, posted 06-12-2024 5:21 AM LamarkNewAge has not replied

  
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