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Author Topic:   The Glorification and Worship of Torture
Percy
Member
Posts: 22607
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 91 of 98 (918896)
06-07-2024 10:21 AM
Reply to: Message 89 by candle2
06-04-2024 3:18 PM


Re: FYI
candle2 writes in Message 89:
Percy writes in Message 84:
So it is your belief that a loving God inflicts incredible trauma and suffering but will provide psychological relief if you come to love him and accept him as Lord. Sounds a bit like the Stockholm syndrome.
I did not love God when He decided to spare my life. I have stated several times that I both hated and cursed God.
God was not responsible for my mother's death. He did not force me to drink or take drugs.
A common Christian prayer before meals:
quote:
Thank you, Lord, for the food we are about to receive, and for the nourishment to our bodies. For Christ’s sake, Amen.
So God gets credit for the meal, but not for your mother's death or your drinking and drug use. How does that make sense?
Why not this prayer:
quote:
Thank you, Lord, for the drugs we are about to receive, and for the highs our minds will experience. For Christ’s sake, Amen.
God is not the reason that Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, or Idi Amin killed millions.
A quibble: Idi Amin wasn't in the same league as Hitler, Stalin or Pol Pot. And you forgot Mao Zedong.
So in your view God is responsible for good things but not bad. How do you reach this conclusion? The Bible recounts God doing some pretty bad stuff. Given that God once killed well over 99% of all living things, including people, shouldn't he be on your list along with Hitler, Stalin and the rest?
God has a Commandment against murder.
From which he's apparently exempt.
Trauma is not the result of following God's Laws and Commandments.
Tell that to Job.
It is true that humans have used religion to justify wars, but they do not speak for God.
They sure think they do. They're committing evils while invoking the name of God. Just as you're doing here by filling your preaching with lies.
Many wars are the result of coveting and stealing what others have.
But it's for God, so it's okay.
For example, one nation might covet the natural resources of another nation. When this happens, they try to forcefully take it. They seek to steal it by force.
But the other nation is full of [Catholic, Protestant, Islamic, Buddhist, Hindu] heretics. God does not want them to have those resources.
God commands His followers not to covet, and not to steal.
God's followers are some of the worst offenders. It seems that following God leads to more bad behavior than good.
Don't try to blame God for the world's trauma.
Again, does it really make sense to you to credit God only for the good things and none of the bad?
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by candle2, posted 06-04-2024 3:18 PM candle2 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 92 by candle2, posted 06-08-2024 4:22 PM Percy has replied

  
candle2
Member
Posts: 875
Joined: 12-31-2018


Message 92 of 98 (918915)
06-08-2024 4:22 PM
Reply to: Message 91 by Percy
06-07-2024 10:21 AM


Re: FYI
Percy, you stated:
"So God gets credit for the meal, but not for your mother's
death or your drinking and drug use. How does that make
sense?"
***Is there something mentally wrong with you?
I said that my father shot my mother, not God.
And, God did not hold me down and force drugs through
my mouth.
Only cry-babies try to blame others for their failures.
We all have free will.
Listen carefully: it is difficult to reach God during this
present age. It really is.
God chooses an individual to be one of His elect. He
was aware of each of them long before they were born.
The elect are those whom Christ resurrects when He
returns to set up His Kingdom. They are His firstfruits,
not His only fruits.
This being said, an individual can still find God if that
individual seeks God with all his heart. God can give an
individual peace and a sound mind.
When Christ sets up His Kingdom everyone in that kingdom
will have access to Him and His firstfruits.
While Jesus was on earth He gave us a preview of what
life would be like in His Kingdom. He healed the sick, and
He fed the hungry.
He will offer you your opportunity at His set time. If you
are still alive when He returns, you will receive your calling
then.
If you die before then, you will receive your opportunity in
the 2nd resurrection.
There are some who will never receive eternal life. Those
Whom God calls during this present age, and who wilfully
walk away from Him will suffer the 2nd death, which is
permanent.
Likewise, those who are incorrugibly wicked will also
experience eternal death.
Life during this present age can be difficult, as well as
being filled with pain. But, it needs to be so. The reward
is beyond imagination.
To become a member of the family of God, in other words
a god ourselves, we must build steadfast character. We
must develop self-control, temperance, patience, etc...
We can only do this when we allow God to develop His
character inside us.
When someone God has called allows Him to create His
character inside them. When that person has allowed God
to mold him in His image, it is sheer foolishness for
someone to try and convince him that God does not exist,
or that God does not love him.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by Percy, posted 06-07-2024 10:21 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 93 by Zucadragon, posted 06-08-2024 6:25 PM candle2 has not replied
 Message 94 by Percy, posted 06-08-2024 7:57 PM candle2 has replied

  
Zucadragon
Member
Posts: 91
From: Netherlands
Joined: 06-28-2006
Member Rating: 2.9


(2)
Message 93 of 98 (918918)
06-08-2024 6:25 PM
Reply to: Message 92 by candle2
06-08-2024 4:22 PM


Re: FYI
I said that my father shot my mother, not God.

And, God did not hold me down and force drugs through
my mouth.

Only cry-babies try to blame others for their failures.
You're missing the point here entirely. Your meal wasn't prepared by God, the meat and vegetables weren't raised by God, but you say thank you to God, because God made it all possible, right? He created the possibility for you to have that meal because God created everything.
That's what you're doing, despite the fact that in that whole process of you getting your meal, God didn't do anything. You're attributing the fact that you can have this meal, to God because he made it a possibility for you.
So in the same sense, the gun, or even the screwed up shit that led to your mother getting shot, was a possibility created by God. He created the means for your mother to to get killed in that way.
You can't on one side claim God created everything, so we should be thankful for all the good we get, and then on the other side say God created everything, but these bad things, aren't his doing, because free will. Both are acts of freewill and he created the means for those bad things to happen just the same.
If God created everything, then drugs exist because God created the means for them to exist, he created everything, so also drugs are his doing, free will has nothing to do with this response because it's not about that.
Don't you see the disconnect here!?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by candle2, posted 06-08-2024 4:22 PM candle2 has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22607
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 94 of 98 (918919)
06-08-2024 7:57 PM
Reply to: Message 92 by candle2
06-08-2024 4:22 PM


Re: FYI
Zucadragon already explained it perfectly, but it won't hurt to explain it again.
candle2 writes in Message 92:
Percy writes in Message 91:
So God gets credit for the meal, but not for your mother'sdeath or your drinking and drug use. How does that makesense?
Is there something mentally wrong with you?
I said that my father shot my mother, not God.
And you prepared the meal (and did everything else necessary for the meal, like earning the money to buy the food, etc. and so on), not God. Why does God get credit for the meal and not the murder?
I'm sorry that your father murdered your mother, but that very sad fact doesn't cause the laws of simple logic to be suspended.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by candle2, posted 06-08-2024 4:22 PM candle2 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 95 by jar, posted 06-08-2024 8:23 PM Percy has not replied
 Message 96 by Tanypteryx, posted 06-08-2024 8:25 PM Percy has not replied
 Message 97 by candle2, posted 06-09-2024 3:06 PM Percy has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34054
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 95 of 98 (918920)
06-08-2024 8:23 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by Percy
06-08-2024 7:57 PM


Re: FYI
Candle2 and Phat and all the CCoI are immune to cognitive dissonance.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by Percy, posted 06-08-2024 7:57 PM Percy has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4501
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 96 of 98 (918921)
06-08-2024 8:25 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by Percy
06-08-2024 7:57 PM


Re: FYI
I'm sorry that your father murdered your mother
Interesting that God wouldn't save his mom.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3
If you are going to argue that evolution is false because it resembles your own beliefs then perhaps you should rethink your argument. - - Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by Percy, posted 06-08-2024 7:57 PM Percy has not replied

  
candle2
Member
Posts: 875
Joined: 12-31-2018


Message 97 of 98 (918936)
06-09-2024 3:06 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by Percy
06-08-2024 7:57 PM


Re: FYI
Percy, you wrote:
"And you prepared the meal (and did everything else
necessary for the meal, like earning the money to buy
the food, etc. and so on), not God. Why does God get
credit for the meal and not the murder?"

"I'm sorry that your father murdered your mother, but
that very sad fact doesn't cause the laws of simple
logic to be suspended."
***God owns all of this. He owns the earth, sun, moon
Galaxy. The food that I eat belongs to Him.
God has plainly said that we are all going to die. It is a
fact that we will die. We just don't know when.
Because of God I will see my mother again. Because of
God I have a loving wife, sons, and grandkids.
After Christ rules on earth for a 1000 years, my mom will
be resurrected, and as a son of God I will be right there to
greet her.
We never had much to eat when I was young. We did not
have electricity or running water. We did without.
But I would not trade any of that because I can now
appreciate even the little things.
My dad borrowed the shotgun from a friend under the
pretense of shooting some turkeys. He also borrowed
six shells. Counting himself there were six of us at home.
Some thought that He was going to shoot all of us, but he
had to shoot mom twice, and the two oldest ran.
I remember him coming onto the porch and staring at me
for a few seconds. I don't know what he was thinking.
Perhaps, God spared my life that day, also.
I will tell anyone who will listen. God has been good to me.
And, I have learned many valuable lessons.
There are always those who have had it worse.
After what my father has done, I still hope God shows
him mercy.
We are not robots. God has given us free will. This is the
only way that we can build character.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by Percy, posted 06-08-2024 7:57 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 98 by Percy, posted 06-09-2024 3:14 PM candle2 has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22607
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 98 of 98 (918937)
06-09-2024 3:14 PM
Reply to: Message 97 by candle2
06-09-2024 3:06 PM


Re: FYI
candle2 writes in Message 97:
Percy writes in Message 94:
And you prepared the meal (and did everything else necessary for the meal, like earning the money to buy the food, etc. and so on), not God. Why does God get credit for the meal and not the murder?

I'm sorry that your father murdered your mother, but that very sad fact doesn't cause the laws of simple logic to be suspended.
God owns all of this. He owns the earth, sun, moon Galaxy. The food that I eat belongs to Him.
So if God owns everything, then that includes murdering your mother.
Free will doesn't enter into it. You had free will to create the meal, but God owns that anyway. Your father had free will to murder your mother, but by the same logic God owns that, too.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by candle2, posted 06-09-2024 3:06 PM candle2 has not replied

  
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