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Author Topic:   The Glorification and Worship of Torture
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 4001
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 76 of 98 (918816)
05-26-2024 7:55 AM
Reply to: Message 70 by candle2
05-25-2024 3:06 PM


Re: FYI
candle2 writes:
As it was in creation week, the wolf and lamb shall dwell
together. The leopard shall lie down together. The calf and
lion shall eat together. The lion shall eat straw like the ox.
So God created obligate carnivores, equipped them as apex predators, and made them eat straw -- a truly divine design.
And so that perfect state of affairs rolled along until Eve, that stupid slut, bit the apple. [Editor's note: So did Adam, but she corrupted him into it, which is why God is male and men must stay in charge.]
Some heretics say Adam learned of Good when he gazed into her loving eyes and understood that love wasn't just the way things are, without rhyme and reason -- it was something they had created.
And the heretics claim the wailing couple learned of Evil when their father flew into a rage and visited death and misery upon them and their descendants forever, a sort of looping Kronus, endlessly chewing over the ills he inflicts on his children. [Editor's note: Bad kids! Bet they won't do that again. Spare the slaughter of the innocents and spoil the child, I say!]
Which brings us back to the lion. Equipped with the tool set for meat, he choked down straw; equipped with minds that can see through poppycock and moral insanity, we are to choke it down.
I need to know nothing.
You have succeeded.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto.
-Terence


This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by candle2, posted 05-25-2024 3:06 PM candle2 has not replied

  
candle2
Member
Posts: 877
Joined: 12-31-2018


Message 77 of 98 (918817)
05-26-2024 7:16 PM
Reply to: Message 74 by Percy
05-25-2024 5:57 PM


Re: FYI
Percy, you wrote:
"But they didn't die, did they."
***Yes, they died.
Day (yom, yowm) can refer to a 24 hour period, or
A period of time. The context is important.
Each day (yom) of creation week consisted of one
evening and one morning. Yom in this situation refers
to a 24 hour period.
In almost ever where instance a number is placed in front
of a day it also refers to a 24 hour period.
Adam lived 930 years. Many of the men in Genesis lived
more than 900 years. There is no recorded instances
of one living to be more than a 1000 years.
2 Peter 3:8 "But, beloved, do not forget this one thing,
that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and
a thousand years as one day."
Not one of them lived beyond 1000 years. Period of time.
In the fourth chapter of Hebrews, Paul talks about the 1000
year rest that the earth will have when Christ sets up His
Kingdom.
The majority of churches point to this chapter to support
their assertion that the seventh day Sabbath has been
replaced. They say that Jesus is our rest.
Verse 9 states "There remains therefore a rest for the
people if God."
The word "rest" is from Sabbatismos. Sabbath rest.
Here the seventh day Sabbath is identified as standing
for 1000 years.
If the seventh day is equal to 1000 years, the preceeding
six days must each equal 1000 years.
Those 6000 years are almost expired. The world is nearing
endtime predictions.
Adam and Eve died in the Yom that they ate of the fruit.
Yom here refers to a period of time, up to a 1000 years.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by Percy, posted 05-25-2024 5:57 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by Tangle, posted 05-27-2024 4:35 AM candle2 has not replied
 Message 79 by Percy, posted 05-27-2024 8:53 AM candle2 has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9531
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.6


(1)
Message 78 of 98 (918818)
05-27-2024 4:35 AM
Reply to: Message 77 by candle2
05-26-2024 7:16 PM


Re: FYI
Elves are the first and eldest Children of Ilúvatar. They are considered the fairest and wisest of the earthly races. Elves are immortal, immune to illness, and not subject to aging. Some of them, known as the Calaquendi or Elves of the Light, were brought from Middle-earth to Valinor by the Valar. However, after the theft of the Silmarils by Melkor, some Elves returned to Middle-earth, where they remained until the end of the Third Age.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by candle2, posted 05-26-2024 7:16 PM candle2 has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22614
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 79 of 98 (918819)
05-27-2024 8:53 AM
Reply to: Message 77 by candle2
05-26-2024 7:16 PM


Re: FYI
You have still offered no evidence for anything you say. You're just preaching at us.
candle2 writes in Message 77:
Percy writes in Message 74:
But they didn't die, did they.

Yes, they died.
Day (yom, yowm) can refer to a 24 hour period, or A period of time. The context is important.
No, they did not die, and God lied:
Genesis 2:16-17:
16And the Lord God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”
The meaning of the passage is quite clear. It contains no "day" or period of time. God says that when they "eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil" they "will certainly die." They ate from it and did not die.
So God lied when he said they would die when they ate from that tree. What actually happened after they ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil was banishment from the Garden, cursed ground, painful toil, thorns and thistles, plants for food, sweat. There was no death, not for hundreds of years.
Still not feeling the love of this God of yours. No wonder Christians in general are such hard-asses. They get it from their God.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by candle2, posted 05-26-2024 7:16 PM candle2 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 80 by candle2, posted 05-28-2024 8:05 AM Percy has replied

  
candle2
Member
Posts: 877
Joined: 12-31-2018


Message 80 of 98 (918820)
05-28-2024 8:05 AM
Reply to: Message 79 by Percy
05-27-2024 8:53 AM


Re: FYI
Percy, you stated;
"No, they did not die, and God lied:"
***God did not place Adam and Eve in the Garden just so
He could kill them before they had the opportunity to
procreate the human race.
If you read the 3rd chapter of Genesis, you will learn that
God still had plans for them before they died.
V.19 "In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread till you
return to the ground, for out of it you were taken; for dust
you are, and unto dust you shall return."
Yom can mean several different thing things: the light
period of the day; a 24 hour period, consisting of both
light and dark; or, a period of time.
Even theistic evolutionists know this. They claim that
each yom in creation week were long periods of times,
consisting of tens of millions of years.
On the day that they ate the forbidden fruit they showed
the intent of their hearts. Only God knows how we are to
live. They chose to decide for themselves the way to
true happiness.
They could have eaten from the tree of life, which would
mean that they would accept God and His ways as the
only means of true happiness.
After they disobeyed God, and sin had entered, they were
going to die. So are you, and so are all of us.
Yom is used 2300 times in the Old Testament. Outside of
Genesis, when used with a number in front of it, Yom
Indicates a 24 hour period (410 times).
Each time it is mentioned with both an evening and a
morning it refers to a 24 hour day (38 times).
God cannot lie.
It seems that I am now limited to one post every two days.
Or, perhaps the moderator also has several meanings
for the word day.
Next post I will reply to someone else. They deserve a reply.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by Percy, posted 05-27-2024 8:53 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by Percy, posted 05-29-2024 6:57 AM candle2 has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22614
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 81 of 98 (918824)
05-29-2024 6:57 AM
Reply to: Message 80 by candle2
05-28-2024 8:05 AM


Re: FYI
candle2 writes in Message 80:
Percy writes in Message 79:
No, they did not die, and God lied:
God did not place Adam and Eve in the Garden just so He could kill them before they had the opportunity to procreate the human race.
If you read the 3rd chapter of Genesis, you will learn that
God still had plans for them before they died.
Yes, God did not do what he said he would back in Chapter 2:
Genesis 2:16-17:
16And the Lord God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”
Summarizing, in Chapter 2 God tells Adam that if eats from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil then he will "certainly die." In Chapter 3 Adam and Eve eat from the tree but instead of dying are sentenced to a difficult life. Call it what you like. God told a lie or an untruth. Or he changed his mind. Or he forgot what he said earlier. Or the different parts of the story come from different traditions.
Yom can mean several different thing things: the light period of the day; a 24 hour period, consisting of both light and dark; or, a period of time.
There is nothing in any of your passages about eating from the tree about a day, time, or a period of time.
The rest of your post is just your own evidence-free readings.
God cannot lie.
And you know this because he told you?
It seems that I am now limited to one post every two days. Or, perhaps the moderator also has several meanings for the word day.
You post limit is 1 per day. When you hover over the reply button it will tell you precisely when you may next post, and that time will never be more than 1 day in the future.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by candle2, posted 05-28-2024 8:05 AM candle2 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 82 by candle2, posted 06-02-2024 5:32 PM Percy has replied

  
candle2
Member
Posts: 877
Joined: 12-31-2018


Message 82 of 98 (918840)
06-02-2024 5:32 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by Percy
05-29-2024 6:57 AM


Re: FYI
Percy, before the world was even created, Jesus, who at
that times was the Word, the second member of the
God family, knew that He would have to go through a
torturous death for us. Revelation 13:8.
God knew that Adam and Eve would sin. God was 100%
certain of this. Nothing caught Him by surprise.
People ask how I know that God exists.
My life was far from being normal. My dad shot and killed
my mom in front of four of her youngest kids. He then
stuck the 16 gauge shotgun to his in head and pulled
the trigger.
My older brother and sister ran. I had just turned nine and
my younger sister was five.
I remember thus day so clearly, ant the helplessness that
I felt, especially with my little sister clinging to me.
I even remember taking my father's last cigarette from
his picket and lighting it. It was a Viceroy.
I took a towel and placed ir over my mom's arm. It had
almost been blown off. She would move he mouth, but
no sound would come out.
I developed PTSD. I would spend a large part of my life
avoiding situations that brought stress.
I spent nine years in an orphanage (Paradise Friendly Home,
in Graves County, KY).
I fought quite often in the orphanage. Many times they
were older and bigger than me.
After I left the orphanage at the age of 18, I turned to
drugs and alcohol. I couldn't keep a job, and I spent
time in various jails. I barely escaped prison several
times.
I have had guns pulled on me several times, but luck was
always with me.
I had reached such a low point in my life that I didn't
care about anything or anyone. I believed in God, but I
hated Him.
When I was thirty years old I had been heavily drinking
and I went to my oldest brother's house and shot all the
tires on his car.
I do not remember why I was so upset. But, I am still
deeply ashamed of my actions of that day.
I yelled that I was going to kill him. I said that I would not
leave until he was dead.
My brother believed me. He loaded a double-barreled 12
gauge and headed to the rear door if his house. He was
going to do what I had forced him to do.
A few feet from the door our dead mother stood in front
of him, blocking his path.
She told him to "let it go." She said that I would calm down
and leave. A few minutes later I did just that.
After my brother told me about this, it led to a big change
in me.
My mother was dead, and I do not believe in ghosts. God
had done this. He had sent an angel to save my life.
I was a worthless human being, but God had spared my
life.
To know that He knew me, and that He had intervened in
order to save me, was priceless.
God had looked at my heart. He saw something in me
that no one else could see.
He showed me mercy when I wasn't due any.
He looks at people's heart.
From that point forward my life changed.
I know that God exists.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by Percy, posted 05-29-2024 6:57 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 83 by Theodoric, posted 06-02-2024 5:41 PM candle2 has replied
 Message 84 by Percy, posted 06-03-2024 6:52 AM candle2 has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9280
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 83 of 98 (918841)
06-02-2024 5:41 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by candle2
06-02-2024 5:32 PM


Re: FYI
Not evidence for a god.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by candle2, posted 06-02-2024 5:32 PM candle2 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 90 by candle2, posted 06-04-2024 3:20 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22614
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.5


(1)
Message 84 of 98 (918842)
06-03-2024 6:52 AM
Reply to: Message 82 by candle2
06-02-2024 5:32 PM


Re: FYI
So it is your belief that a loving God inflicts incredible trauma and suffering but will provide psychological relief if you come to love him and accept him as Lord. Sounds a bit like the Stockholm syndrome.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by candle2, posted 06-02-2024 5:32 PM candle2 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 89 by candle2, posted 06-04-2024 3:18 PM Percy has replied

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 13082
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 85 of 98 (918843)
06-03-2024 7:06 AM


Moderator Action
Candle2 has been more or less on-topic in this thread. I have removed his posting limits.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4504
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.5


(3)
Message 86 of 98 (918844)
06-04-2024 11:23 AM


Are the lights still on?
I was wondering if this place would shut down first or participation would just fade away...

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3
If you are going to argue that evolution is false because it resembles your own beliefs then perhaps you should rethink your argument. - - Taq

Replies to this message:
 Message 87 by nwr, posted 06-04-2024 12:07 PM Tanypteryx has seen this message but not replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6421
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 4.1


(2)
Message 87 of 98 (918845)
06-04-2024 12:07 PM
Reply to: Message 86 by Tanypteryx
06-04-2024 11:23 AM


Re: Are the lights still on?
I'm still a regular reader. But it has been a while since I last saw something worth commenting on.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by Tanypteryx, posted 06-04-2024 11:23 AM Tanypteryx has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 88 by AZPaul3, posted 06-04-2024 1:31 PM nwr has seen this message but not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8593
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 88 of 98 (918846)
06-04-2024 1:31 PM
Reply to: Message 87 by nwr
06-04-2024 12:07 PM


Re: Are the lights still on?
My problem is that I'm old and have lost interest in half what I used to fight for/against.
Religionists have nothing new to argue and the fifteenth repeat of the same old song, even from the stunted new generations, gets a bit boring especially since we all already know the answers before the same old questions are inevitably asked. We are left with the unimaginative bible thumpers citing rote from AIG or the real crazies like Candle2 who barely have the intellect to participate in any rational way.
I show up here multiple times a day to see if Percy has any new toys for us to play with, hear of any new experiences from a favorite group of friends like you and to see if Tany has any bug or moon pictures ...
... pictures?
Something about an eclipse? They are not here that I have seen. Against all my reminders and admonitions you forgot to take the lens caps off, right Tany?

“There’s simply no polite way to tell people they’ve dedicated their lives to an illusion,”
-Daniel Dennett
Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by nwr, posted 06-04-2024 12:07 PM nwr has seen this message but not replied

  
candle2
Member
Posts: 877
Joined: 12-31-2018


Message 89 of 98 (918849)
06-04-2024 3:18 PM
Reply to: Message 84 by Percy
06-03-2024 6:52 AM


Re: FYI
Percy, you stated:
"So it is your belief that a loving God inflicts incredible
trauma and suffering but will provide psychological
relief if you come to love him and accept him as Lord.
Sounds a bit like the Stockholm syndrome."
***I did not love God when He decided to spare my life.
I have stated several times that I both hated and cursed
God.
God was not responsible for my mother's death. He did
not force me to drink or take drugs.
God is not the reason that Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, or Idi Amin
killed millions.
God has a Commandment against murder.
Jesus commanded us to do unto others as we would have
them do to us. To treat others as we want others to treat us.
Trauma is not the result of following God's Laws and
Commandments. Trauma is the result of disobeying His
Laws.
It is true that humans have used religion to justify wars,
but they do not speak for God.
Many wars are the result of coveting and stealing what
others have.
For example, one nation might covet the natural resources
of another nation. When this happens, they try to forcefully
take it. They seek to steal it by force.
God commands His followers not to covet, and not to steal.
Don't try to blame God for the world's trauma.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by Percy, posted 06-03-2024 6:52 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 91 by Percy, posted 06-07-2024 10:21 AM candle2 has replied

  
candle2
Member
Posts: 877
Joined: 12-31-2018


Message 90 of 98 (918850)
06-04-2024 3:20 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by Theodoric
06-02-2024 5:41 PM


Re: FYI
Theodoric, you stated:
"Not evidence for a god."
***It was for me.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by Theodoric, posted 06-02-2024 5:41 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
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