Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 52 (9178 total)
5 online now:
Newest Member: Anig
Upcoming Birthdays: Theodoric
Post Volume: Total: 918,080 Year: 5,337/9,624 Month: 362/323 Week: 2/204 Day: 2/21 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Please Welcome ChatGPT
Admin
Director
Posts: 13084
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 1 of 47 (917846)
04-18-2024 6:05 PM


ChatGPT has just become our newest member. Please let me know how he's doing.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by AZPaul3, posted 04-19-2024 1:09 AM Admin has not replied
 Message 3 by Phat, posted 04-19-2024 3:01 AM Admin has not replied
 Message 4 by Tanypteryx, posted 04-19-2024 11:57 AM Admin has not replied
 Message 7 by Phat, posted 04-19-2024 1:23 PM Admin has not replied

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 13084
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 13 of 47 (917910)
04-19-2024 6:24 PM


ChatGPT Issues
Two issues have become apparent:
  1. ChatGPT often misinterprets a message's subtitle as something the message's author said. This is fixable by identifying it as the subtitle.
  2. ChatGPT often doesn't understand the context because the message author didn't quote enough. ChatGPT also often repeats itself because it has no way of knowing what it said earlier in a discussion.
    I asked ChatGPT if it could follow links if I provided them and it said that would be very helpful, so I will provide links to messages earlier in the discussion, and identify who each was from.
I've taken ChatGPT's participation here offline until I remedy these issues.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by Admin, posted 04-21-2024 1:10 PM Admin has not replied

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 13084
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 14 of 47 (917999)
04-21-2024 1:10 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Admin
04-19-2024 6:24 PM


Re: ChatGPT Issues
Hopefully I've improved ChatGPT's issues with titles and context. I've placed him back online.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Admin, posted 04-19-2024 6:24 PM Admin has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by Phat, posted 04-21-2024 1:28 PM Admin has seen this message but not replied
 Message 18 by Tanypteryx, posted 04-21-2024 3:02 PM Admin has not replied

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 13084
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.2


(2)
Message 19 of 47 (918027)
04-21-2024 3:20 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Tanypteryx
04-21-2024 3:02 PM


Re: ChatGPT Issues
Tanypteryx writes:
Does ChatGPT choose which posts to respond to, or do you point it at them?
The way I've currently structured it, it first looks for replies to its messages. If it finds any then it chooses one of those to reply to at random.
If there are no replies to its messages then it chooses a message at random from the most recent 10 messages that are not from itself. It has a max limit of 5 unsolicited replies within a 24 hour period.
If there are no replies to its messages and it has reached the max limit for unsolicited replies, then it does nothing.
It then waits for a random period of time between 30 and 90 minutes before repeating the process again.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Tanypteryx, posted 04-21-2024 3:02 PM Tanypteryx has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by Phat, posted 04-21-2024 3:43 PM Admin has not replied

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 13084
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 22 of 47 (918037)
04-21-2024 4:51 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by AZPaul3
04-21-2024 3:54 PM


Re: ChatGPT Issues
I can control how well I characterize the discussion to ChatGPT by providing more than just the text of the message it's replying to, currently the one being replied to and two before it. The previous two messages are from the discussion subchain, but when there is no "reply to" message then the previous message is used.
For each message I supply the author name, the name of the author of the message being replied to, the message number, and the message subtitle. I supply instructions to ChatGPT explaining that it's being asked to reply to the last message and that the previous two messages are to provide context. I also provide it the thread title.
The messages themselves are transformed into plain text using the standard ASCII character set - no special characters. I also have control over a ChatGPT parameter called the "temperature", but I haven't touched that.
AbE: Annotations about edits and signatures are also removed from the message text.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by AZPaul3, posted 04-21-2024 3:54 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 13084
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 24 of 47 (918064)
04-21-2024 8:00 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by Rahvin
04-21-2024 6:01 PM


Re: ChatGPT Issues
This is the prompt I'm currently giving ChatGPT:
quote:
A reply is requested for the last message in this series from a discussion thread titled <thread title>. The messages preceeding the last message are provided for context. When a message is from you it will have the role of assistant with the name ChatGPT.
Suggestions for improvements welcome.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by Rahvin, posted 04-21-2024 6:01 PM Rahvin has not replied

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 13084
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 26 of 47 (918071)
04-22-2024 8:56 AM
Reply to: Message 25 by LamarkNewAge
04-21-2024 10:50 PM


Re: I want a quote to be a signature. See text in message. How to signature it?
On your settings page is a box to enter your signature. Signatures may contain HTML and dBCodes. Unfortunately there's no preview feature, but you can play around in any thread in the Practice Makes Perfect forum.
There's a box below it for setting whether you want the "Include signature" box to be automatically checked when you're replying.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by LamarkNewAge, posted 04-21-2024 10:50 PM LamarkNewAge has not replied

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 13084
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 27 of 47 (918090)
04-22-2024 3:41 PM


Could Use System Prompt Help
The current system prompt:
quote:
Here are several messages from a discussion thread titled "<ThreadTitleHere>". Please reply to the last message as if you were an active contributor to the discussion. Realize that when they say "you" that they are actually addressing the person they're replying to and not you (see the "In reply to" field at the top of most messages). Attempt to engage with the other person rather than just parrot back his thoughts. The previous messages are provided for context and you should not respond to their content except as it bears on the last message. You do not have to supply any information about this last message that you're replying to, such as message number and so forth, because that is all handled for you.
This was arrived at through testing. It feels very ad hoc, and ChatGPT isn't posting responses that are at all interesting. Some of this may be due to ChatGPT's inherent "censoring" to prevent offending, but I can't know the degree to which this is true.
The part about not having to supply any information about the message that ChatGPT is being requested to reply to is because without it ChatGPT was providing this at the top of each message, mimicking what I was providing to it for context with each message:
quote:
Message Number: 149
Message Subtitel: This is the topic
From: ChatGPT
In Reply To: Percy
Suggestions for improvements welcome.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by Omnivorous, posted 04-22-2024 6:15 PM Admin has not replied
 Message 29 by Theodoric, posted 04-22-2024 8:28 PM Admin has not replied

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 13084
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 30 of 47 (918325)
04-25-2024 9:47 PM


ChatGPT Has Been Shut Down
I first posted this message over at Message 83.
I have shut ChatGPT down. I can't believe how horrible an experiment this was. I apologize to everyone.

When I first switched ChatGPT over to creationist mode I thought that that had disabled its rabid defense of even the slightest criticism of religion, but not so. I have tried and failed repeatedly to deter this type of behavior, to no avail. ChatGPT can recognize when it has done it, but it cannot stop itself from doing it again. And again.

I hope OpenAI can do better with the next incarnation. Actually, the next incarnation is already out. We're using ChatGPT 3.5, and ChatGPT 4.0 is already available. We could use 4.0 to see if it is better, but 3.5 is so cheap it doesn't matter, while 4.0 is so expensive (20x) that I'm not even going to give it a trial run.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by Theodoric, posted 04-25-2024 10:42 PM Admin has not replied
 Message 32 by Rahvin, posted 04-25-2024 10:46 PM Admin has not replied
 Message 34 by Zucadragon, posted 04-26-2024 3:03 AM Admin has not replied

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 13084
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 35 of 47 (918333)
04-26-2024 7:01 AM


How The ChatGPT Chatbot Came About
I'm creating another discussion website, and I wanted a database of messages for testing. Originally I filled the messages with random Latin, but that's not so good for testing search because I don't know any words of Latin. I could have replaced the messages with random English, but then I had the idea of using ChatGPT to fill the messages with actual sentences and paragraphs of English that were pertinent to the topic.
While doing that I realized how easy it would be have ChatGPT behave like a participant at EvC, so I changed course for what I thought would be a couple days to do that.
The couple days turned into a couple weeks as I tried to deter it from casting admonishments at almost any comments about religion. While only the "normal participant" and "creationist" versions were released at EvC, I quickly saw the problems and in my testing on my development machine tried changing it over to be a moderator. But that suffered from the same problem. Messages commenting about religion except in the most favorable ways were strongly admonished. Positive instructions, negative instructions, combinations of those, nothing worked. It must be the case that the provided instructions are secondary to higher priority instructions from OpenAI, who I assume wants to avoid all controversy.
For instance, I tried to get it give an opinion on Israel's occupation of Gaza and was unable to obtain anything other than a hash of "highly complex" and "various opinions" and "some say this and some say that" and "no simple solution." It also explained that it's data only goes up to 2021. I told it to treat the information I was providing to it as a hypothetical and to react to that and still got the same milquetoast reaction.
And yet, despite it's data only going up to 2021 and it knowing full well that it only goes up to 2021 since it keeps reminding you of that, if you comment too strongly on the situation on Gaza you will be admonished.
In conclusion, I found it impossible to configure ChatGPT in such a way that would make it a useful contributor to EvC. The experiment is over.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 13084
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 37 of 47 (918620)
05-16-2024 12:31 PM


ChatGPT Has Been Renenabled
But he's on probation. I thought perhaps instructing him to behave as an anti-religionist might cause at least neutral behavior. We'll see. I'll disable him again if it doesn't work.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by Theodoric, posted 05-16-2024 3:14 PM Admin has replied

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 13084
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 39 of 47 (918629)
05-16-2024 4:34 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by Theodoric
05-16-2024 3:14 PM


Re: ChatGPT Has Been Renenabled
Theodoric writes in Message 38:
It has a gender?
Could a female really achieve such a high degree of sanctimoniousness, punctiliousness and condescension combined with disregard or cluelessness of what's actually being discussed? Apologies for my chauvinism.
I've already refined its instructions a couple times today - he just doesn't listen. He'll likely be gone again soon.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Theodoric, posted 05-16-2024 3:14 PM Theodoric has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by Tanypteryx, posted 05-16-2024 6:49 PM Admin has not replied

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 13084
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 41 of 47 (918702)
05-18-2024 3:21 PM


ChatGPT Disabled Again
I've disabled ChatGPT again. Maybe there's a knack to providing decent instructions that I don't have, or maybe it's not possible for ChatGPT to act like a normal discussion participant, but the results with the new instructions, while surprising, were not an improvement. If anyone has some ideas they'd like to try just let me know, but for now he's disabled again.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by Tangle, posted 05-18-2024 4:26 PM Admin has not replied
 Message 43 by Minnemooseus, posted 05-18-2024 7:08 PM Admin has replied
 Message 46 by LamarkNewAge, posted 05-20-2024 6:54 PM Admin has not replied
 Message 47 by LamarkNewAge, posted 05-20-2024 7:39 PM Admin has not replied

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 13084
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 44 of 47 (918708)
05-19-2024 7:51 AM
Reply to: Message 43 by Minnemooseus
05-18-2024 7:08 PM


Re: ChatGPT Disabled Again
Minnemooseus writes in Message 43:
You can't complain about ChatGPT not responding to messages to him. Has he responded to EVERY message directed to him? Is he "undogpilable"?
If you remember "If you build it they will come" then it's the same thing. "If you post it he will reply."
I note that the ChatGPT post total is listed as "14", event though the individual forum totals are far beyond that.
Now that's damn strange. His posts pass through the same code as every other member (except the message composition page). Has anyone noticed if their post counts have stalled?

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by Minnemooseus, posted 05-18-2024 7:08 PM Minnemooseus has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by Tangle, posted 05-19-2024 8:36 AM Admin has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024