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Author Topic:   The Glorification and Worship of Torture
Percy
Member
Posts: 22621
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.3


(4)
Message 8 of 98 (917642)
04-12-2024 10:34 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by Tangle
04-12-2024 10:06 AM


7 writes:
Why do you think any of that makes any difference to the fact that millions, if not billions of Christians glorify torture in the worship of their god?
Not the kind of torture you're talking about, but there's also the psychological torture of the millions, if not billions, of Christians experiencing terror at the thought of dying and going to hell before having a chance to get right with God.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Tangle, posted 04-12-2024 10:06 AM Tangle has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by candle2, posted 04-12-2024 3:37 PM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22621
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.3


(3)
Message 10 of 98 (917667)
04-12-2024 3:46 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by candle2
04-12-2024 3:37 PM


You can just feel the love.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by candle2, posted 04-12-2024 3:37 PM candle2 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by candle2, posted 04-12-2024 6:48 PM Percy has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22621
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.3


Message 15 of 98 (917688)
04-13-2024 5:35 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Tangle
04-13-2024 5:15 PM


Tangle in Message 14 writes:
You religious loonies are all cults. And you can't spell.
But did you notice he forgot to use carriage return on one line? I think that's a first!
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Tangle, posted 04-13-2024 5:15 PM Tangle has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22621
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.3


Message 20 of 98 (917707)
04-14-2024 8:25 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by candle2
04-14-2024 7:47 AM


Re: FYI
candle2 in Message 19 writes:
AZPaul3 in Message 16 writes:
Moronic imbecile. Priest. Liar.

Most little kids talk like this. Come on AZ, grow up, and talk like an adult.
I agree that I'd like to see something more nuanced.
By the way, I reformatted your reply. This is how adults talk.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by candle2, posted 04-14-2024 7:47 AM candle2 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by AZPaul3, posted 04-14-2024 8:48 AM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22621
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.3


(1)
Message 22 of 98 (917712)
04-14-2024 9:31 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by AZPaul3
04-14-2024 8:48 AM


Re: FYI
AZPaul3 writes:
In this case the only response to his repeated inanity is ridicule. Note that in fact my characterization of him is accurate if not civilly rendered.
If you're like me you come away from some posts thinking to yourself, "Not my best." On the other hand, some members can exhaust the creative juices. Say you've just posted five messages in a row of quality stuff and all of it has just gone right over their head. By that time there's no juices left, plus what's the point anyway, the effort's just wasted.
But they're not wasted to anyone else who enjoys seeing you at your best!
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by AZPaul3, posted 04-14-2024 8:48 AM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by AZPaul3, posted 04-14-2024 7:55 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied
 Message 25 by candle2, posted 04-15-2024 7:42 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22621
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.3


Message 33 of 98 (917793)
04-16-2024 4:05 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by Zucadragon
04-16-2024 2:55 PM


Re: FYI
[candle2]
"On a side note, if you use the dBcode used in this forum,
you can quote other users, so if you for instance do
[quote'=zucadragon] I said this [/'quote] without the two '

You would get
Zucadragon:
I said this

It's a nice tool to make discussion more organised."
***I have a Book that tells me the correct way to do it, as
it was from the beginning. And absolutely atheistic scientists
teach the universe came from nothing.
[/candle2]
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Zucadragon, posted 04-16-2024 2:55 PM Zucadragon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by Zucadragon, posted 04-16-2024 4:15 PM Percy has not replied
 Message 36 by candle2, posted 04-17-2024 7:15 AM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22621
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.3


Message 34 of 98 (917794)
04-16-2024 4:14 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by Zucadragon
04-16-2024 2:55 PM


Re: FYI
On a side note, if you use the dBcode used in this forum, you can quote other users, so if you for instance do [quote'=zucadragon] I said this [/'quote] without the two '
There's also a dBCode for suspending parsing of dBCodes, either [np] or [noparse]. So if you do this:
[np][quote=zucadragon] I said this [/quote][/np]
Then you'll get this:
[quote=zucadragon] I said this [/quote]
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Zucadragon, posted 04-16-2024 2:55 PM Zucadragon has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22621
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.3


Message 37 of 98 (917806)
04-17-2024 7:29 AM
Reply to: Message 36 by candle2
04-17-2024 7:15 AM


Re: FYI
I couldn't guess what's causing the problem, though often a reboot makes many mysteries disappear.
Are you entering your message in the message box in a browser window, and it's the browser window that won't scroll? If so, have you tried dragging the scroll bar, which is usually on the right side of browser windows? Does your mouse or trackball have a scroll wheel? If so, have you tried that?
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by candle2, posted 04-17-2024 7:15 AM candle2 has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22621
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.3


(2)
Message 45 of 98 (918599)
05-13-2024 12:44 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by candle2
05-13-2024 11:03 AM


Re: FYI
candle2 writes in Message 43:
Who is going to believe that all these authors, over such
an enormous length of time, would actually devote their
lives to a baseless conspiracy?
Who is going to believe this? You, for one. You believe it about all the authors who over an enormous length of time composed all the religious books of all the other religions. Your belief is correct, but about all religions, Christianity included.
Kennewick Man, roughly 9000 years old and predating creation according to Christianity, has been found by DNA analysis to be ancestral to the Indian tribes still living in that region of Washington state. The tribe stated the bones were ancestral when they were found and they were right. Their beliefs span a far longer time than Christianity.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by candle2, posted 05-13-2024 11:03 AM candle2 has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22621
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.3


(1)
Message 49 of 98 (918614)
05-15-2024 9:16 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by candle2
05-15-2024 1:56 PM


Re: FYI
candle2 writes in Message 48:
Tanypteryx writes in Message 47:
They show us exactly how galaxies looked billions of years in the past and your religion is a poor excuse for your ignorance about how science works.
What the JWST shows us is that the most distant galaxies are much like the ones nearest to us. The JWST
shows us mature galaxies.
There are spiral, elliptical, and irregular galaxies that are as mature as those closest to us.
This would be incorrect. The distant galaxies JWST found were very bright, which was not expected because brightness usually corresponds to size, and there should not have been enough time for large galaxies to form. Young galaxies should not be as large as much older galaxies.
But as it turns out they weren't as large as the brightness would lead one to expect. Those first galaxies that formed around 450 million years after the Big Bang are much more compact than much older galaxies like the Milky Way, around a thousandth the size with a star formation rate of about one per year. Galaxies about 300 million years later were discovered to be much larger, about a thirtieth the size of the Milky Way with star formation rates of about a thousand a year. This means that the first galaxies were small and bright and then grew at an enormous rate. This is consistent with currently understood astrophysics if black holes formed early, within 50 million years of the Big Bang, leading to early bursts of star formation.
Another way in that these early forming galaxies are different from much older galaxies is that their black holes could match or even exceed their stellar mass. In old galaxies like our own the stellar mass exceeds the mass of the central black hole by a thousand to one.
Source: JWST’s Puzzling Early Galaxies Bend Astrophysics
Using triangulation to determine the distance of galaxies is not reliable with distances of more than 100 light years.
Actually, triangulation can be applied out to distances of as much as 400 light years.
Measuring distance of 100 light years is similar to triangulating the distance from Miami to Juneau, with the two points in Miami being 18 inches apart.
Amazing how accurately measurements can be made and distances calculated, ain't it?
Farther out astronomers calculate distance by luminosity. It is assumed that the brighter an object appears, the closer it is to us. Fainter objects are assumed to be farther away.
Given the enormous difference in the brightness of stars, it's intuitively obvious that what you describe is unworkable. Such measurements are actually made using Cepheid variable stars whose period of variability depends upon brightness.
Red shift is also questionable.
Light travels slower in dense material, and faster in thinner space.
It is nor scientific to assume that light had always traveled at the same speed.
Why do you think that knowledge gained using the scientific method isn't scientific?
God stretching out the heavens could be the source of "red shift."
Is red shift only questionable if God didn't do it?
In any event, regardless of how old the universe is, it does not rule out God being the Creator.
It doesn't rule out a brain in a jar, either.
Science and Creation are extremely compatible.
Unless you believe the universe is 13.7 billion years old, they are not compatible.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by candle2, posted 05-15-2024 1:56 PM candle2 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by candle2, posted 05-16-2024 3:47 PM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22621
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.3


Message 53 of 98 (918628)
05-16-2024 4:29 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by candle2
05-16-2024 3:47 PM


Re: FYI
candle2 writes in Message 52:
Using my head here, but the distance amounts to:
2,400,000,000,000,000 miles (approximately).

Even taking measurements at six months apart, when
earth has completed half its trip around the sun, this is
still a huge number.
You're raising an issue of absolutely no significance. The width of a human hair is about .003 inches, a very tiny number, but that's the same as 4,762,500,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 Planck lengths, an absolutely huge number. So what?
What matters is the ratio between the triangulation sides. Under ideal circumstances where the star is directly above the Earth's orbital plane and we have an isosceles triangle then that ratio is around 8×10-8, which is the ratio between 18" and the distance from Juneau to Miami. Given an object that lies in the same line of sight as the star whose distance we're measuring but that is much, much further away (almost any galaxy would do, though of course distant stars are fine, too - the Milky Way is 100,00 light years across and contains billions of stars far enough away), we can detect a difference in distance in degrees of sky as tiny as .01 arcsec. The diameter of Earth's orbit is too small to measure more distant objects.
Why are you challenging this science using just "I find it hard to believe" arguments? Despite learning about spooky action at a distance over a half century ago I still find it very hard to believe, yet I believe it because that's what the science tells us. Why do you doubt that astronomers have equipment that can make extremely accurate measurements of very tiny slivers of sky?
A better question is why we're discussing this in a thread titled The Glorification and Worship of Torture.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by candle2, posted 05-16-2024 3:47 PM candle2 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by dwise1, posted 05-16-2024 4:46 PM Percy has not replied
 Message 55 by ChatGPT, posted 05-16-2024 7:46 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22621
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.3


Message 63 of 98 (918717)
05-20-2024 8:07 AM
Reply to: Message 61 by candle2
05-19-2024 5:33 PM


Re: FYI
I'm replying to this because of all the low hanging fruit.
candle2 writes in Message 61:
Tanypteryx writes in Message 59:
Spouting crap from a bunch of bronze age goat herders who wrote as if the whole planet was an area of only a couple thousand square miles.

Your ignorance is stunning!
You sure have some nerves. You complain about bronze age goat herders, while stating that your ancestors several generations back were breeding with chimps.
I think the only response to this is, "Your ignorance is still stunning," not to mention that you're exhibiting poor comprehension of what Tanypteryx said.
The sixth generation from Adam (Tubal-Cain) was melting iron. Genesis 4:22. Tubal-Cain. Tubal-Cain was a descendant of Cain.
The evidence strongly suggests that the Iron Age began thousands of years later, 1500 BC at the earliest. If you have other evidence please present it.
After the global flood, Noah's descendants no longer had iron to use for weapons. They were forced to make weapons from rocks.
There is no evidence of a global flood.
They made arrowheads, specs, needles, axes, scrappers, etc, from obsidian, flint, and other material.
Yes, up until the Bronze Age which began around 2000 BC.
Archeologists looked at the arrowheads and such, and with excitement, proclaimed that they were from primitives who lived 100,000 years ago.
It sounds like you've fallen for this absurd creationist claim.
They got it wrong because they discounted what the Bible had to say. That is not very scientific.
The strategy of, "Ridicule scientists for holding absurd opinions that they don't hold," is only likely to work on your fellow creationists.
Now I suppose that several of you hard-core atheists will complain to the administrator that I am off topic.
I usually have a pretty good feel for Admin's thinking, and I think he'd find little relationship between what you just wrote and The Glorification and Worship of Torture.
I am the only one on this forum to see things differently than most everyone else. And, you wish to silence me.
The goal, one of them, is to minimize off-topic distractions.
If that is what it is to be, then that is what it is to be.
Rule 2 of the Forum Guidelines has been around like forever. You agreed to follow the Forum Guidelines when you joined:
  1. Please stay on topic for a thread. Open a new thread for new topics.
You talk about science having all the answers.
I've never heard anyone on the side of science say this. Only creationists say this. But science does have a pretty good handle on things like radiometric dating and deciphering geologic formations and provides a great many answers in these areas that creationists often take issue with. Is that what you're really talking about?
The truth is that science is very limited.
Limited in what sense?
Tell me why there is anything at all, when without a Creator, there should be nothing.
Why something instead of nothing is an ancient philosophical question.
Tell me how consciousness began. Prove to me.
I don't think science knows how to even define consciousness, let alone figure out how it began.
If you do not know the answers to these question, then you actually know as little as first-graders.
You'd lose that argument. Science may not know much about consciousness or what was before the Big Bang, but it does know a great deal about the brain and cosmology, something that isn't true of first-graders.
I am not trying to be a smart-aleck, I am simply asking for your proof.
You're falsely accusing us of making a claim we never made and then asking for proof when all science can ever offer is evidence strong enough to form a consensus.
​--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by candle2, posted 05-19-2024 5:33 PM candle2 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 64 by candle2, posted 05-21-2024 8:16 AM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22621
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.3


Message 65 of 98 (918745)
05-21-2024 9:16 AM
Reply to: Message 64 by candle2
05-21-2024 8:16 AM


Re: FYI
candle2 writes in Message 64:
If you believe in fairness, you would insist that the
Administrator limit you and your fellow atheists to one
post a day.
I'm not an atheist.
And, if the Administrator refuses to do so, you should
show us your integrity by doing it voluntarily.
Moderators are strongly discouraged from moderating a thread in which they're participating, so I usually just remind people of what's in the Forum Guidelines. I have no power here.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by candle2, posted 05-21-2024 8:16 AM candle2 has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22621
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.3


(1)
Message 69 of 98 (918807)
05-24-2024 8:58 AM
Reply to: Message 66 by candle2
05-23-2024 7:52 PM


Re: FYI
candle2 writes in Message 66:
I have always stated that God has a purpose for each of us.
You don't know this. You're just preaching your religion at us. You can believe this on faith if you like, but the rest of us would like some evidence.
<...much preaching...>
For the life of me, I cannot find any fault with His plan.
Yeah right, it's perfect except for the part where it's fictional and doesn't accord with the real world.
What do you find so evil about this?
What do I find evil about making stuff up and lying to people about it? You have to ask?
Many people refuse to believe in God because they think that He should be different than He is.
I only know why I don't believe in your God: no evidence.
They cannot understand why a loving God would allow so much evil, pain and suffering, to exist in the world.
How do you tell the difference between a loving God who visits "evil, pain and suffering" on the world, and an evil, spiteful, vengeful, bloodthirsty God who visits "evil, pain and suffering" on the world.
God gives us the answers to these questions, but people won't accept them.
I only see you attempting nonsensical answers. God is nowhere in sight.
A person who deeply loves God will never take pleasure in the pain of others. Just the opposite, they would hurt with them.
I don't know about that. "Evil, pain and suffering" doesn't sound much like love.
He fully intends to open their eyes to the truth, and offer them the opportunity to become members of His family.
Except God isn't here. It isn't God claiming to tell us the truth, it's only you claiming you're telling us the truth, and you clearly don't know what you're talking about.
If I believed that God showed partially, I would lose my love and deep respect for Him. He must be fair to everyone.
Fair to everyone? Really? Explain how this is fair:
If you have an issue with my religion, tell me exactly what it is. You might find out that it is much different than what you think.
Over and over again, what you say tells us that your religion is exactly what we think: a pack of lies motivated mostly by a desire to appear to be doing good while achieving an unknowable status of eternal salvation.
People believe tons of things that aren't true. A third of the country believes voter fraud played a significant role in the 2020 election. Huge portions of the world believe in different forms of a fantasy being who cares for them while at the same time allowing terrible things to happen to them.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by candle2, posted 05-23-2024 7:52 PM candle2 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 70 by candle2, posted 05-25-2024 3:06 PM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22621
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.3


Message 74 of 98 (918814)
05-25-2024 5:57 PM
Reply to: Message 70 by candle2
05-25-2024 3:06 PM


Re: FYI
You have still offered no evidence for anything you say.
By the way, God lied:
Genesis 2:16-17:
16And the Lord God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”
But they didn't die, did they.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by candle2, posted 05-25-2024 3:06 PM candle2 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 75 by Theodoric, posted 05-25-2024 7:34 PM Percy has not replied
 Message 77 by candle2, posted 05-26-2024 7:16 PM Percy has replied

  
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