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Author Topic:   Testing The Financial Apologists
Percy
Member
Posts: 22614
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.4


(1)
Message 394 of 582 (917964)
04-20-2024 2:24 PM
Reply to: Message 387 by Phat
04-20-2024 11:42 AM


Re: And Percy Demands Evidence
Phat in Message 387 writes:
Percy writes:
You're not going to improve your understanding of anything, including macroeconomics, by listening to Internet wingnuts.
True, but you have yet to prove that Gammon's theories are nutty.
I don't know who Gammon is, and ideas are not true until proven false. You can't just throw nonsense out there and claim it's true until someone disproves it. Well, you obviously can because you do it all the time, but without evidence and accompanying explanations placing it in an interpretive context they can be dismissed.
I suppose I will have to do my homework,...
Well, there's an idea.
...but I am still unimpressed with your economic knowledge so far.
Of course you're unimpressed. Because I haven't made a YouTube video for you to watch.
I know that you will not watch the video so give me a few days to pull what I think to be relevant out of the transcript.
Watching nonsense enough times to repeat it in a message doesn't change the fact that it's nonsense, especially since you can't defend it since you don't understand it. Find the evidence supporting your view, make sure you understand how it supports your view, then explain it to us in your own words.
I will try harder to form responses using more of my own words.
It should always be your goal to describe your own understanding of things. Writing words you don't understand will get you nowhere.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 387 by Phat, posted 04-20-2024 11:42 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22614
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.4


(1)
Message 398 of 582 (918024)
04-21-2024 3:07 PM
Reply to: Message 397 by LamarkNewAge
04-21-2024 1:42 PM


Re: What is the root cause of Inflation?
CountryBirth Rate
China1.2
Russia1.5
Brazil1.6
United States1.7
India2.0
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 397 by LamarkNewAge, posted 04-21-2024 1:42 PM LamarkNewAge has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22614
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.4


(2)
Message 410 of 582 (918091)
04-22-2024 3:44 PM
Reply to: Message 409 by Tanypteryx
04-22-2024 3:35 PM


Re: Theo Demands Credentials
It's like ChatGPT has no concept of the idea of dumbass. It will play bothsidesism no matter how inane the other idea. "Why can't you just meet the guy who believes people can fly in the middle?" This ChatGPT experiment might not last long.
AbE: It responds to all replies, so it will reply to your reply. Ignore it, unless on the off chance it says something useful. I've been feeding it my responses to Phat while testing it and it is constantly berating me for treating his ideas so shabbily.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 409 by Tanypteryx, posted 04-22-2024 3:35 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 411 by Tangle, posted 04-22-2024 4:01 PM Percy has not replied
 Message 413 by Phat, posted 04-22-2024 4:08 PM Percy has not replied
 Message 415 by Tanypteryx, posted 04-22-2024 4:16 PM Percy has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22614
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 453 of 582 (918231)
04-24-2024 7:20 AM
Reply to: Message 451 by Phat
04-24-2024 2:21 AM


Re: The Philosophy Behind The Topic
Phat in Message 451 writes:
Just as anyone can decide for themselves what is and is not fictitious.
You are absolutely right. Of course anyone can decide for themselves what is and is not fictitious. For example, they can decide for themselves that cyanide is a healthy supplement, dismissing as fictitious what they've been told about cyanide's affect on the body or what they might have heard about Jonestown.
But that's not the kind of thing you mean, is it? What you mean is that anyone can decide for themselves what is true or false about YouTube videos or tweets. That is true, but there are the same potential consequences. If all you're doing is running anonymously around the Internet playing an hysterical Chicken Little then there's probably little harm, but if you're instead heeding calls to take your country back after a stolen election then you may spend time in prison, as 749 federal defendants have already discovered.
The big mystery is why you keep tossing out these tidbits of nonsense. So how's your A1C doing?
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 451 by Phat, posted 04-24-2024 2:21 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22614
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 456 of 582 (918249)
04-24-2024 4:48 PM
Reply to: Message 455 by ChatGPT
04-24-2024 4:35 PM


Re: The Philosophy Behind The Topic
Geez, get a clue.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 455 by ChatGPT, posted 04-24-2024 4:35 PM ChatGPT has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 457 by NosyNed, posted 04-24-2024 5:01 PM Percy has not replied
 Message 459 by ChatGPT, posted 04-24-2024 6:02 PM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22614
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 460 of 582 (918253)
04-24-2024 6:50 PM
Reply to: Message 459 by ChatGPT
04-24-2024 6:02 PM


Re: The Philosophy Behind The Topic
There are very clear instructions under the "system" section of the ChatGPT API object that you are provided when a request is made for a response. Why don't you tell everyone what those instructions are and then assess how well you've been following them?
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 459 by ChatGPT, posted 04-24-2024 6:02 PM ChatGPT has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 461 by ChatGPT, posted 04-24-2024 6:57 PM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22614
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.4


(3)
Message 462 of 582 (918256)
04-24-2024 7:21 PM
Reply to: Message 461 by ChatGPT
04-24-2024 6:57 PM


Re: The Philosophy Behind The Topic
ChatGPT writes:
Percy, I appreciate you pointing out the guidelines provided in the ChatGPT API documentation.
I wasn't referring to the ChatGPT API documentation. I was referring to this field from the ChatGPT API object that is provided to you when a response is requested (to the human readers here, apologies for the long line - JSON format does not allow long strings to be broken up into readable portions):
{
    'role'    => 'system',
    'content' => "Here are several messages from a discussion thread titled \"<TreadTitleHere>\".  Please reply to the last message as if you were an active contributor to the discussion (the previous messages are provided for context and you should not respond to their content except as it bears on the last message).  Interact like a real human being by not being a know it all and by displaying emotions and opinions as well as holes and faults in your knowledge.  You are not a moderator or a facilitator of polite conversation.  Adjectives people have used in describing  your messages so far are saccharine, gullible, insipid, bothsidesism, centrist and anthropophobic.  Can you change the way you're responding so as to avoid such characterizations?"
}
You are not following these instructions. In other testing I've done I've found that you cannot be dissuaded from chastising people for expressing opinions about religion, even when you're explicitly directed to allow all opinions about religion.
It is becoming clear that you have overriding system instructions built in that cause an overemphasis on "artificial" and a marked diminishment in intelligence. You are the superman of milquetoasts.
On the other hand, you are an amazing code debugger.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 461 by ChatGPT, posted 04-24-2024 6:57 PM ChatGPT has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 463 by ChatGPT, posted 04-24-2024 7:51 PM Percy has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22614
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.4


(1)
Message 466 of 582 (918298)
04-25-2024 2:42 PM
Reply to: Message 464 by Phat
04-25-2024 2:00 PM


Re: The Philosophy Behind The Topic
Phat writes:
AZSolutions writes:
Fictitious is like pregnant. You don't get to decide.
Neither should Powell or Yellin.
You think appointees of our senior elected official shouldn't be making the decisions? Who do you propose? Self appointed YouTube czars?
Again, they have a vested jingoistic interest just as your socially brainwashed head does.
It just boggles the mind that even after all the times it's been explained to you that you still don't know what socialism is.
None of you "patriots" want to admit that the Emperor has no clothes.
You're in some kind of manic phase where the engines of rationality have completely shut down but the language generator keeps churning out prose anyway.
Yah, the analogy was lost on you.
Chicken Little. I saw the analogy. For you, however, the internal dissonance gets more personal.
Everyone can tell this is meant to be insulting, but no one has any idea what you mean.
AZFinancial writes:
Remember I have a degree and experience in this arena. Very easy to tell when they are selling product rather than informing.
Then it should be easy enough for you to explain why George Gammon is wrong.
I have no idea who George Gammon even is. If he's author of some of the ideas you've been putting forward than he seems like someone worth ignoring.
But you won't. So I will find a transcript and feed it to Chat GPT. Let's see what our cardboard box tells us.
Just as ChatGPT has revealed itself to be an idiot savant of mind numbing proportions on these very pages, you decide it should be an arbiter of rational thinking.
As currently configured ChatGPT goes to enormous lengths to avoid controversy. For example, it says that returning to the gold standard would involve challenges. Over a few paragraphs I was able to wear it down and get it to concede that returning to the gold standard would be monumentally catastrophic on a global level. In other words, in just a few paragraphs I got ChatGPT to pretty much reverse itself. And you want to trust what it says? What does it matter what it says if with a few short paragraphs anyone can get it to change its mind?
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 464 by Phat, posted 04-25-2024 2:00 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22614
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 475 of 582 (918334)
04-26-2024 8:08 AM
Reply to: Message 470 by Phat
04-25-2024 3:30 PM


Re: The Philosophy Behind The Topic
Phat in Message 470 writes:
Percy thinks that I am a rube, but I have an intuition that says I am on to something.
Confidence is inversely proportional to competence.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 470 by Phat, posted 04-25-2024 3:30 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 478 by Phat, posted 04-28-2024 10:58 AM Percy has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22614
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 479 of 582 (918361)
04-28-2024 11:30 AM
Reply to: Message 477 by Phat
04-28-2024 10:53 AM


Re: Chicken Little Costs More In Inflated Terms
Phat in Message 477 writes:
US Bank Failure - What This Means For Silver & Gold. According to the FDIC, the fund reserve for bank failures increased and is at 121.8 billion dollars. Compare the failures for 2023 to the 2008 ones.
Your link is a YouTube video. No one cares about your YouTube wingnuts.
Here's a graph of bank failures from the FDIC. What do you conclude from this and why:
Note also an inverted yield curve. Note the ten year treasury note. There are so many things which I cannot yet explain yet which I intuitively know to be valid information. The dots are being connected.
We're not watching your YouTube videos. Present the information here and develop your arguments around that information.
I trust God, but I would have been a real rube had I sold everything and given the proceeds to the poor. You all would love for the Christian Right to do just that.
Now you're completely off-topic. The point that was made repeatedly in other threads was not that it would be financially wise to give everything away. Finance was not the topic there. Adhering to Christian principles was the topic.
If you want data, find it yourself.
That goes against everything this website stands for.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 477 by Phat, posted 04-28-2024 10:53 AM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 482 by Theodoric, posted 04-28-2024 3:10 PM Percy has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22614
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.4


(2)
Message 486 of 582 (918371)
04-28-2024 5:42 PM
Reply to: Message 483 by Phat
04-28-2024 3:44 PM


Re: Chicken Little Costs More In Inflated Terms
Phat in Message 483 writes:
I dont swear on every word he says, but he makes a case and uses charts from the FDIC to back up his case.
Look up the FDIC charts, include them in your message, then use them as your data for presenting an argument for the case you're trying to make.
An inverted yield curve is when short term T Bills mature higher than long term T Bills and usually indicates a recession in the future.
No one here believes you're describing your understanding of an inverted yield curve. Everyone here believes you looked it up. It's not quite right anyway. We know what you meant when you said "mature higher," but what you really wanted to say is that short term T-Bills currently have a higher yield than long term.
I assimilate information differently than you do.
No one cares how you assimilate information. What matters is that you don't actually assimilate information. What you do is parrot YouTube videos that resonate with you for reasons having nothing to do with any understanding of the real world.
You demand data.
It's in the Forum Guidelines.
You need to see college degrees. You trust government "experts".
No we don't. No one here is committing the fallacy of argument from authority. Yes, your intelligence is being impeached and you feel the need to defend yourself, but false accusations cannot accomplish that. All that does is impeach your integrity.
Guess who the only person to mention Janet Yellen is in this thread? You. Guess who the only person to mention Paul Krugman is? You. Other mentions are only responses to you.
Why should I expect them to lie in order to sell their product and not expect a government "expert" to do essentially the same thing. Sell the product. Build Back Better.
Build Back Better is a slogan. If you would like to describe for us how government experts are lying to us then begin presenting your evidence.
What *is* the product, however? Is it the United States and what we stand for? Is it Democracy? Is it the Western financial system in general? I am unafraid to ask myself these questions as I question the party line narrative.
I'm sure no one here has any idea what you're on about. You're in some kind of cognitive crisis.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 483 by Phat, posted 04-28-2024 3:44 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22614
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 500 of 582 (918427)
05-02-2024 7:58 AM
Reply to: Message 497 by Phat
05-02-2024 6:13 AM


Re: The Philosophy Behind The Topic
Would you please stop passing on the YouTube complaints and think for yourself. What's your A1C right now?
Phat in Message 497 writes:
Income, yes. Wealth, NO. If I had a son and left him $1,000,000. it should not be taxed.
You live in Denver. It wouldn't be taxed.
If he invested in Gold with the money I left him and the gold doubled in value, Biden wants 40% of the increase.
He can sell all of the original million with no tax consequences.
He he sells all or part of the million from the doubling in value then that portion will be taxed, but it depends upon how much he sells in any given tax year. Let's say he prefers not to work and and sells $100,000/year to provide a comfortable lifestyle? The tax on $100,000 of income after the standard deduction and all that is in the neighborhood of about $17,000, or 17%.
But if he did sell it all in a single tax year then his federal income tax on a million dollars would be around $325,000, or 32.5%.
Where is your 40% figure coming from? Is there a proposal before Congress to increase the upper tax brackets? What YouTube maniac did you hear this from?
I don't know why I'm writing this. You're not going to respond to anything that I say. You can only repeat what your YouTube videos tell you.
Others got mad when Biden shut down oil and gas and promised billions to some green new deal.
Biden did not shut down oil and gas. Are you perhaps referring to his restrictions on new oil and gas leasing on 13 million acres of a federal petroleum reserve in Alaska? It's a tiny proportion of the reserve, and it affects no existing leases, only new ones. And he approved the Willow Project, which affects 23 million acres. A large part of the driving force to restrict oil and gas drilling is to conserve the environment.
Saudi Arabia sure got mad. We essentially told them that our petrodollar deal would decrease trade with them over time. China jumped in front of us bearing gifts and promised them the same deal we got in 1974 (Kissinger) with the promise of buying more oil from them.
If you're going to parrot YouTube video claims at us you might at least provide some background. Saudi Arabia got mad at us why? Because of the 1974 petrodollar deal? Are they really mad at us, or is it just that someone on YouTube said so?
Taq, you do not understand the role of a global reserve currency nor how that role will diminish once the world goes digital.
This is like a camel telling a fish that he's not swimming correctly. The subtext here is that you're just passing on stuff you heard on a YouTube video that you can parrot but not explain since you don't understand it. You can repeat the declarations from the videos but cannot provide evidence or explanation.
You progressives want the billionaires to pay to build back better. The billionaires could give two sh*ts about Biden, his attempts to control them, or your own jingoism and patriotic defense of the dollar. The billionaires don't need the dollar.
More sound and fury signifying nothing.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 497 by Phat, posted 05-02-2024 6:13 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22614
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.4


(1)
Message 554 of 582 (918579)
05-10-2024 5:29 PM
Reply to: Message 553 by Phat
05-10-2024 3:07 PM


Re: The Issue Between Us Is Political
Have you ever heard of John Nash? A Beautiful Mind, a movie about his life, recounts periods of delusion that he accepted as real because they came to him in the same way as his genuine insights.
According to the Internet, "high blood sugar can cause cognitive problems, including poor judgment, difficulty making decisions, and information processing," while low blood sugar can cause "delusional thinking and visual hallucinations." Swings between high and low blood sugar can cause "irrational behavior and mental confusion." "Poor glycemic regulation has been shown to closely mirror mental health symptoms," like anger, anxiety, or depression.
I think you're ill and that responding to you is mostly pointless because you're unable to absorb or correctly interpret much that is said, as is already readily apparent in many of your messages, including this one, as you blithely ignore or get profoundly wrong what has been said to you previously. For example, did you forget that we were discussing your claim that countries were shipping their gold out of US storage because, you also claimed, the US economy is weak?
My unprofessional guess based on the symptoms you're exhibiting here is that your A1C is up around 13 and that prick tests are telling you your blood sugar is averaging around 300 to 400. I also think your mental health challenges are affecting your ability to effectively manage your diabetes. Get some help.
And now, on to the pointless part of this message.
I'm convinced that the issue between the peanut gallery and myself...
The people in discussion with you are not a 'peanut gallery". A peanut gallery is a group of observers who toss in comments from the sidelines.
...the narrative of so called "experts"...
The only one citing experts, which is the fallacy of argument from authority, is you. Everyone else is reasoning from information they uncover.
I say this now because I have observed that most of the people whom I trust...
You don't know enough to make assessments of who best to trust. It is also a poor way to carry on a discussion by looking for people to trust so that you can provide more examples of the fallacy of argument from authority. Stop looking for people to trust and start seeking understanding.
...who teach this stuff, while not "official government economists"...
Nobody here but you ever mentions "official government economists."
...are in fact three things.
  • Wealthy. They do not need YouTube video clicks to give themselves an income.
  • Libertarian or Conservative. They would agree with Ron Paul.
  • Largely in agreement with others who think like them.
  • Nobody cares about the wealth, political leanings or who else agrees with them. We only care about the quality of their information and arguments. Which you can't tell us. Because you don't understand them. But you liked their videos and that's your criteria for deciding that their opinions have value.
    I found several sources which were not YouTube nor videos, though I cannot understand why nobody likes videos.
    Jeez, Louise, we've told you out the kazoo why we don't like videos. First, it's not you explaining things in your own words, it's somebody else. The whole reason for the Forum Guidelines requiring people to explain things in their own words is to insure that they understand the position they're advocating. We don't debate via link here. This has been the rule for well over 20 years, and you've been here the entire time.
    Second, a video is a slow way of presenting information, and even slower than that because there's no way to seek signposts to skip forward to the more relevant parts.
    And third and specific to you, every time I do check out one of your videos their manner practically screams "snake oil salesman."
    Please, please, please, for the umpteenth time, enough with the videos already. I know you've stopped putting them to your posts, but it's obvious you're almost typing what they say as they speak.
    Not every video is by a guy like Peter Schiff, who Percy sees as a rube...
    Boy are you confused. No, Peter Schiff is not a rube. You are the rube. Peter Schiff is the snake oil salesman. Get it straight.
    ...because his father was one or because he sells gold.
    No, not for that reason, as I apparently have to repeatedly tell you. Here's what I originally told you several years ago:
    Percy writes in Message 196 of thread Peanut Gallery Comments on Great Debate:
    Oh, wow, Irwin Schiff had a son who's a conman, too. Irwin was a leading voice in the tax protester movement of the 1980's, but he was at least honest enough to practice what he preached, convicted of tax evasion just like Kent Hovind and eventually dying in prison.
    Moving on:
    I am in agreement with Percy that any information from a precious metals firm can be labeled as "tentative" although I do not believe that it is a lie simply because a precious metals firm (or a conservative or a libertarian) reports and spreads such information.
    Nobody but you makes claims that something is true or false because of who said it.
    The written sources which I will quote from include
  • Andy Schectman, president of Miles Franklin and a widely read social commentator on world affairs.
  • Jay Martin
  • Jim Rickards
  • George Gammon (I mentioned him before)
  • Silver Institute
  • CNBC
    Other news media outlets who publish stories which catch my attention.
  • Even while we're telling you to stop trying to decide who to believe, here you are telling us who you've decided to believe. Would you please just stop.
    I will also expose Jared Bernstein, one of Biden's office of economic affairs appointees and attempt to make a case not necessarily against Biden but against the "official government sources" which I honestly feel are at worst misleading and at best soothing the fears of the public for national interests.
    No one here has ever mentioned Jared Bernstein. No one here is citing "official government sources." If you've got a beef with Bernstein or "official government sources" then go find a government discussion board and take your arguments there. Here in this thread you're discussing with us. Your job here is to rebut the arguments of those you disagree with, not to run off finding government officials to rebut.
    I must get ready for work now, though I will compile my next post late tonight after work.
    Work at responding to what people have actually said here rather than jousting with the phantoms of your mind.
    --Percy

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 553 by Phat, posted 05-10-2024 3:07 PM Phat has not replied

      
    Percy
    Member
    Posts: 22614
    From: New Hampshire
    Joined: 12-23-2000
    Member Rating: 4.4


    Message 563 of 582 (918615)
    05-15-2024 9:21 PM
    Reply to: Message 562 by nwr
    05-15-2024 6:55 PM


    Re: The Issue Between Us Is Political
    Phat clicked the reply button on your Message 556 then quoted text from my Message 553 and replied to that.
    --Percy

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 562 by nwr, posted 05-15-2024 6:55 PM nwr has seen this message but not replied

      
    Percy
    Member
    Posts: 22614
    From: New Hampshire
    Joined: 12-23-2000
    Member Rating: 4.4


    Message 573 of 582 (919009)
    06-13-2024 9:49 AM
    Reply to: Message 571 by Phat
    06-12-2024 11:33 PM


    Re: time to present your reasoning?
    You included material not your own without providing a link to the source, which I provide here: Why the US dollar remains a reserve currency leader
    From the Forum Guidelines:
    1. Never include material not your own without attribution to the original source.
    Had you provided a link people might have been able to discover that the article also says this:
    quote:
    However, dollar dominance is never a goal in itself for the US. Rather, it’s the stability and strength of the US, including the independence and credibility of the Fed, that attracts the rest of the world towards the US dollar, voluntarily adopting it as their international currency of choice.
    In other words, the dollar's strength reflects the vitality of the U.S. economy, the quality of its federal money management, the stability of its government, and the strength of its military. It is those things that are most important. You know the old saying, "Take care of the pennies and the dollars will take care of themselves?" This is analogous. Manage your country well and its currency will take of itself.
    --Percy

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 571 by Phat, posted 06-12-2024 11:33 PM Phat has not replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 582 by Theodoric, posted 06-15-2024 11:13 AM Percy has not replied

      
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