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Author Topic:   Testing The Financial Apologists
nwr
Member
Posts: 6419
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


(2)
Message 35 of 582 (888838)
10-09-2021 4:37 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by Phat
10-09-2021 3:22 PM


Re: Addressing Old Posts
And keep in mind that were it not for debt there would be no inflation nor deflation.
This is surely false.
We have gone off the rails since 2007 and I'm not sure we will ever return to where we were as a nation and indeed globally with secure financial resources.
I blame the Republicans. They run up debt, and then they block the attempts of Democrats to increase taxes to pay down that debt.
Responding to ringo, Phat writes:
And yet you would love for all of the Christian Middle class to give all that they have (and join your ranks in so doing) simply so you dont have to work so hard struggling to pay bills and eat!
That's not what I read ringo as saying.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

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 Message 34 by Phat, posted 10-09-2021 3:22 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6419
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


(1)
Message 52 of 582 (896038)
07-29-2022 5:16 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by Phat
07-29-2022 3:20 PM


Re: Attempting to explain my understanding without a video
Thanks for that explanation.
In my opinion, you are wrong about almost everything. But I'm not an economist, so I'll limit my response to a couple of points.
Fiat money system means that a currency is no longer backed by physical assets, such as gold or silver.
If we to back a few hundred year, then there was a time that currency was backed by "physical assets". Or was it?
Wasn't it really backed by peoples whims and fads about jewelry? If people had stopped valuing gold and silver for jewelry, then the coins would have been worthless.
Still, at that earlier time, you could have your gold and silver. And you would put the gold coins under your pillow while you slept. If somebody stole them, then they were gone for good.
But then banking was invented. You could put your spare change in the bank, which turned out to be safer than putting it under your pillow.
So now you take your $100 of gold coin, and deposit it in the bank. The bank gives you documents to prove that it is yours. And the bank then lends out $80 of that to some borrower.
So now your $100 of gold coin has become $180 -- this includes your documentation and what the borrower holds. So the $180 in circulation already exceeds the $100 of physical assets. So all of the problems that you imagine with fiat currency already existed because of banking. The money supply had already been detached from physical assets.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by Phat, posted 07-29-2022 3:20 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
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nwr
Member
Posts: 6419
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 67 of 582 (896145)
08-01-2022 3:38 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by Phat
08-01-2022 3:18 PM


Re: Attempting to explain my understanding without a video
I'm not yet convinced that they are wrong and you are right. I'm just now more skeptical as to whether they have my interests at heart (they likely don't) and whether their information is at least partly true.
That's a start, at least.
The thing to remember is that youtube videos tend present lots of marketing hype and very little critical analysis.
I found out that the source is wealthy people. They have a vested interest in people fleeing from stocks and buying the things they supposedly buy. They can then sell for a massive profit.
We have been repeatedly trying to point this out to you.
An interesting side note:
Mitt Romney ($400.00 million net worth) and Warren Buffet (Billions of net worth)
Both advocate buying farmland and Apartment buildings. Sorta out of my league, but it's interesting how these wealthy men don't advocate precious metals.
That should tell you something.
However, jumping into real estate is not a panacea. If you want to make money that way, you have to get involved in knowing the risks and following market conditions.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by Phat, posted 08-01-2022 3:18 PM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by dwise1, posted 08-01-2022 6:32 PM nwr has replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6419
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


(1)
Message 70 of 582 (896148)
08-01-2022 6:59 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by dwise1
08-01-2022 6:32 PM


Re: Attempting to explain my understanding without a video
What it really amounts to, is the old saying: "There's no such thing as free lunch."
If you want to make money, you have to actually work at it. If a scheme promises that you can sit back while riches accumulate, it is likely to be a scam.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by dwise1, posted 08-01-2022 6:32 PM dwise1 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 71 by dwise1, posted 08-01-2022 7:21 PM nwr has seen this message but not replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6419
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 85 of 582 (896223)
08-03-2022 11:12 AM
Reply to: Message 83 by Phat
08-03-2022 10:54 AM


Re: Attempting to explain my understanding without a video
And I don't trust governments nor do I feel they should have that much authority over money.
Always remember that money is just pieces of paper with no intrinsic value.
The value of money comes from how we use it, not from its intrinsic properties. And government cannot control how we use it. Yes, government can influence how we use it, but that influence falls far short of control.
You get yourself all worked up because you don't understand this.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by Phat, posted 08-03-2022 10:54 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6419
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


(3)
Message 89 of 582 (896238)
08-03-2022 1:42 PM
Reply to: Message 88 by Phat
08-03-2022 1:21 PM


Re: Attempting to explain my understanding without a video
What I hate is overarching government control over costly things that they have no consensual knowledge about. Take Green New Deals vs Oil and Gas, for instance.
I'll remind you that "Green New Deal" is a slogan. It isn't anything the government is actually controlling.
And it is true that within 50 years we will be able to fully rely on these clean and/or renewable sources. But not tomorrow. We need oil and gas in the meantime.
Do you really believe that your god is going to magically poof a new way of doing things into action? Don't we need to work on it and start making preparations.
Again, all that I side with is less government control vs more government control.
Okay. So let's have more open shoplifting. After all, laws against shoplifting are government control, and you want less of that.
You really have not thought this through.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by Phat, posted 08-03-2022 1:21 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6419
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


(1)
Message 99 of 582 (896259)
08-03-2022 6:00 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by Phat
08-03-2022 5:10 PM


Christianity and morals
Ringo seems to push the point that nobody is even a Christian unless they give it all up.
You are likely still misunderstanding ringo.
It is an ongoing argument against the inevitability of getting older and poorer and feeling as if society is pushing me aside and claiming I am rich simply because I own a small condo in a retirement community.
I don't have a problem with your owning a condo. My concern is your indifference to people in need.
On my view of Christianity, one of the central principles is that you love your neighbor. And I see you failing at that.
A personal question for all of you. How generous are you to the cause?
I don't know how to measure that. I do make significant charitable contributions, and some of that goes to a local charity that assists people in need. But I am not giving so much that I need to worry about whether I can afford to buy food.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by Phat, posted 08-03-2022 5:10 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6419
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


(3)
Message 115 of 582 (896767)
08-20-2022 2:22 PM
Reply to: Message 114 by Phat
08-20-2022 1:50 PM


Re: Fiat Money Pros & Cons
Personally, I think we got rid of reliance on oil and natural gas far too early.
When did we get rid of it? And how? Or is this just your imagination running wild?

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by Phat, posted 08-20-2022 1:50 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
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nwr
Member
Posts: 6419
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


(1)
Message 174 of 582 (904702)
01-05-2023 2:56 PM
Reply to: Message 165 by Phat
01-05-2023 11:55 AM


Re: Mandatory Debt leads to an antichrist system
Which is why I defend private property rights.
No, you do not defend property rights.
And if the debt becomes unsustainable, we all should simply agree to wipe the slate clean rather than be under bondage to some socialist "humanitarian" bill.
That's your denial of property rights. You are saying that the property of those who own the debt should be stolen.
Is that your version of "Christian values".

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 165 by Phat, posted 01-05-2023 11:55 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6419
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 175 of 582 (904703)
01-05-2023 3:03 PM
Reply to: Message 171 by Phat
01-05-2023 1:58 PM


Re: Mandatory Debt leads to an antichrist system
Why cant money simply have an intrinsic value that we can spend as we need?
Because there is no such thing as "intrinsic value".

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 171 by Phat, posted 01-05-2023 1:58 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6419
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


(3)
Message 243 of 582 (910159)
04-18-2023 11:28 AM
Reply to: Message 242 by Phat
04-18-2023 10:19 AM


Re: Krugman
We are in a war of ideologies and money itself is being tugged back and forth.
Money itself is nothing. Money is just a token that represents value. And value depends on the culture.
A problem for conservatives, is that they tend to emphasize money itself, instead of understanding that it the represented value that is important.

--> -->Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity <-- <--

This message is a reply to:
 Message 242 by Phat, posted 04-18-2023 10:19 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 250 by Phat, posted 04-20-2023 10:36 PM nwr has replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6419
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


(2)
Message 257 of 582 (910341)
04-21-2023 11:50 AM
Reply to: Message 250 by Phat
04-20-2023 10:36 PM


Re: Krugman
There is no "one" culture.
You managed to completely miss the point.
What if I cant afford a new electric car?
Then don't buy one.
I have no current plans to buy one.

--> -->Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity <-- <--

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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nwr
Member
Posts: 6419
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


(1)
Message 289 of 582 (910765)
05-12-2023 12:50 PM
Reply to: Message 285 by Percy
05-12-2023 8:58 AM


Re: If That Day Ever Comes
Percy in Message 285 writes:
I remain baffled that you're still such a rube for slick videos, that you think insults convey any useful information, and that you can't get basic facts straight.
This seems to describe the current Republican party. I guess GOP stands for "Grifters own party"

--> -->Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity <-- <--

This message is a reply to:
 Message 285 by Percy, posted 05-12-2023 8:58 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6419
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


(3)
Message 556 of 582 (918582)
05-10-2024 11:48 PM
Reply to: Message 553 by Phat
05-10-2024 3:07 PM


Re: The Issue Between Us Is Political
Phat in Message 553 writes:
The Issue Between Us Is Political
No, it isn't political, at least in my case. My view comes from looking at how money seems to work.
..., though I cannot understand why nobody likes videos.
Watching videos takes time and is tedious. I can get a lot more useful information per minute by reading than by watching videos.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 553 by Phat, posted 05-10-2024 3:07 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 558 by Phat, posted 05-15-2024 11:55 AM nwr has replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6419
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 562 of 582 (918613)
05-15-2024 6:55 PM
Reply to: Message 558 by Phat
05-15-2024 11:55 AM


Re: The Issue Between Us Is Political
Phat writes in Message 558:
I was at the Doctor yesterday and my A1C is 7.8.
This is weird. According to the indicator at top right, it is a reply to me. However, based on content, it looks more likely to be intended as a reply to Percy.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 558 by Phat, posted 05-15-2024 11:55 AM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 563 by Percy, posted 05-15-2024 9:21 PM nwr has seen this message but not replied

  
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