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Author Topic:   The Glorification and Worship of Torture
candle2
Member
Posts: 873
Joined: 12-31-2018


Message 6 of 98 (917634)
04-12-2024 8:42 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Tangle
03-31-2024 4:49 PM


Tangle, you post false/strawman statements and blame
these religious lies on Christians.
I will address other false issues that you raised, but for
now I will address your so-called "cross."
Jesus was not nailed to a cross. The Greek word for cross
is crux. It is not used in the NT.
The NT word interpreted as cross comes from "stauros."
Strong's Concordance and Vine's Expository Dictionary
of Bible Words define stauros as an upright pale or stake.
Stauros is from base word of "histemi," which simply
means to stand.
The cross was used in many pagan cultures centuries
before the birth of Christ.
Stauros no more means cross than stick means baseball
bat.
The ancient Mesopotamian god of fertility, Tammuz was
represented by a T that resembled a cross. Tammuz is
mentioned in Ezekiel 8:14.
Many, many false practices and beliefs have been passed
down through the centuries by the Roman Catholic Church.
In order to gather more followers the RCC incorporated
hundreds of pagan practices, and they passed many of
these practices to their daughter churches.
The false cross has become an idol. And idolatry if
strictly forbidden by the 2nd Commandment.
John 4:24 "God is spirit, and those who worship Him must
worship Him in spirit and in truth."
In ant event, those who murdered Christ in such a hideous
manner were not Christians. It was carried out by
Romans and unbelieving Jews.
God forbids His followers from causing harm to others,
or rejoicing in their pain.
It was carried out by people such as yourself. It was
carried out by people who did not understand Him, and
who deeply despised Him.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Tangle, posted 03-31-2024 4:49 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by Tangle, posted 04-12-2024 10:06 AM candle2 has replied

  
candle2
Member
Posts: 873
Joined: 12-31-2018


Message 9 of 98 (917666)
04-12-2024 3:37 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Percy
04-12-2024 10:34 AM


Percy, you stated;
"There's also the psychological torture of the millions, if
not billions, of Christians experiencing terror at the
thought of dying and going to hell before having a chance
to get right."
***If one feels this way, then that individual is Christian
in name only.
1 John 4:18. "There is no fear in love; perfect love casts
out fear...
In any event, the Bible does not teach that those who
reject God will burn in hell (Gehenna fire) for eternity.
It teaches that they will die for eternity.
Doing this present age God is calling those who have
been predestinated to conform to His image.
The predestinated (proorizo, limited in advance) are
talked about in Ephesians 1:5,11 & Romans 8:29-30.
Calvanists believe that only those who are predestinated
will receive eternal life based on these verses.
But, the predestinated are those whom God calls and
offers them a position in His coming Kingdom as spirit
Beings, sons of God.
These individuals are baptized with this commission. They
devote their earthly life to Him and His cause.
In the coming Kingdom of God they will implement God's
government over the entire earth. They will assist Christ
in converting others to the ways of God.
These individuals now possess a degree of God's Holy
Spirit. With God's Holy Spirit each one called will, over
time, grow into a new man or woman.
A true Christian will slowly turn into a new person, and
develop fruits of the Spirit.
Fruits of the Spirit consists of love, joy, peace, forbearance,
kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-
control.
An individual who is ruled by fear does not possess these
qualities.
Matthew 13:10-15 & Mark 4:10-12 state clearly that Jesus
spoke in parables to hide much of what He was teaching.
He is not presently trying to save everyone.
However, He will give everyone who has ever lived the
opportunity to personally know Him, and a chance at
eternal life.
2 Peter 3:9 "The Lord is not slack concerning His promise,
as some count slackness, but is long-suffering toward us,
not willing than ant should perish but that ALL should
come to repentance."
The fear of dying is in every man, except those who love
God with all their heart.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Percy, posted 04-12-2024 10:34 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by Percy, posted 04-12-2024 3:46 PM candle2 has replied

  
candle2
Member
Posts: 873
Joined: 12-31-2018


Message 11 of 98 (917674)
04-12-2024 6:48 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Percy
04-12-2024 3:46 PM


Percy, you wrote:
"You can just feel the love."
***I do not want to see anyone die for all eternity. It would
be really sad. I can also feel pain for someone other than
myself.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Percy, posted 04-12-2024 3:46 PM Percy has not replied

  
candle2
Member
Posts: 873
Joined: 12-31-2018


Message 13 of 98 (917684)
04-13-2024 4:31 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by AZPaul3
04-12-2024 8:56 PM


Re: FYI
AZPaul, you wrote:
"The orthodox and catholic cults have the figure of the
crucified Jesus on the cross complete with nails in both
hands and feet. The protestant cults take the Jesus figure off the cross and use the cross sans Jesus as the symbol of their beliefs."
***What does the pagan RCC have to do with Christ?
Christ was not crucified on a cross. In any event, neither
Jesus nor the Bible approve of this behavior.
Simply because a group calls themselves Christian, does
not make them so.
In like manner, a man who puts on lipstick and wear a
dress is not a woman, regardless of how much they
insist that they ate.
You mention the orthodox and catholics as cults and
indeed they. They are not Christians. And they do not
speak for Christ, nor are they part of Christ's Church.
They and they daughter churches are in the same boat
as you and your friends. You do not know Christ, nor do
they.
Your conclusion is wrong because you start with the
wrong premises.
Now if you wish to discuss what the Bible really says
about God's church, I would be glad to do so, but I
am not about to defend ungodly practices and doctrines.
I have the feeling that you know very little about God's
true church, though.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by AZPaul3, posted 04-12-2024 8:56 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by AZPaul3, posted 04-13-2024 6:47 PM candle2 has replied

  
candle2
Member
Posts: 873
Joined: 12-31-2018


Message 17 of 98 (917691)
04-13-2024 6:59 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Tangle
04-12-2024 10:06 AM


Tangle, you wrote:
"do you think any of that makes any difference to the
fact that millions, if not billions of Christians glorify
torture in the worship of their god?"
***They are not worshipping God. They are observing
man-made traditions.Christ condemned the Pharisees
for following man-made traditions.
I have told the board numerous times that God is not
trying to save the world during this present age.
He is not trying to save Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, or
those who practice false Christianity, etc.
When the pre-ordained times comes every human who God
did not call during this present age will come into the
knowledge of the truth.
Those who practice man-made doctrines are in the same
boat as those who are not certain that God even exists.
We all have to experience life under the rule of Satan. We
must experience his ways of self-centeredness, greed, lust,
hate, etc, before we get to experience life under the rule of
Christ.
It seems rough, and it is. It can be be extremely painful
to be a human. I know this first hand. But, it is
essential for us to experience both ways before we can
make an informed decision.
Those whom God has called have already experienced
a great deal of pain. They have made a decision to
fully embrace God when He called, or will call.
God does not love the elect more than He does others.
Everyone will be called, either now, in God's kingdom, or
after the resurrection.
2 Peter 3:9 "The Lord is not slack concerning His promise,
as some count slackness, but is long-suffering toward us,
NOT willing to perish but that ALL should come to
repentance."
This is a promise from Him.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Tangle, posted 04-12-2024 10:06 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by Tangle, posted 04-13-2024 7:20 PM candle2 has not replied

  
candle2
Member
Posts: 873
Joined: 12-31-2018


Message 19 of 98 (917704)
04-14-2024 7:47 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by AZPaul3
04-13-2024 6:47 PM


Re: FYI
AZPaul, you stated:
"I've been at this for a long time. I know your gutter religion
very well. With you as one of its priests I know your cult is
an ancient fantasy myth that has tortured humanity for
millennia. Like all religions yours is but another death cult."
***I reiterate, only more firmly; you don't know a thing about
it.
All you know how to do is repeat what others say.
Why don't you post what Jesus really says and does in
the New Testament, instead of stating the same lies,
that shows your ignorance?
***You also posted:
"Moronic imbecile. Priest. Liar."
***Most little kids talk like this. Come on AZ, grow up, and
talk like an adult.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by AZPaul3, posted 04-13-2024 6:47 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by Percy, posted 04-14-2024 8:25 AM candle2 has not replied
 Message 24 by AZPaul3, posted 04-14-2024 8:59 PM candle2 has replied

  
candle2
Member
Posts: 873
Joined: 12-31-2018


(1)
Message 25 of 98 (917749)
04-15-2024 7:42 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by Percy
04-14-2024 9:31 AM


Re: FYI
Percy, I never judge an individual's entirety based upon
their worse traits. There is good and bad in all of us.
However, if an individual's premises and conclusions can
stand on their own, there is no reason to resort to personal
attacks.
Tactfulness is a virtue.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Percy, posted 04-14-2024 9:31 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
candle2
Member
Posts: 873
Joined: 12-31-2018


Message 26 of 98 (917775)
04-16-2024 8:31 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by AZPaul3
04-14-2024 8:59 PM


Re: FYI
AZPaul, you wrote:
"The physical evidence does not support a supernatural
entity like a god existing in this universe. At this time
for humanity this is the only reality the universe has
shown us."
***You say that the physical evidence does not support a
supernatural God.
So you believe that from nothing came the entire universe?
You believe that all the material in the universe was at
one time condensed into a tiny dot the size of a period?
Here's the period.
Do you believe that disorder creates order.
Do you believe that a house that is neglected by its owner
will automatically improve itself over time?
Do you believe life can be create by non-life; in other
words, something that is not itself alive?
Can a doorknob create life?
Can it cause consciousness?
Could an all-powerful Creator create dark matter, as well
as the laws of physics? And if not, why not.
You do not believe that God could exist because He does
not conform to your idea of how He should think, and what
He should believe, or how He should behave?
Could God have a reason, and a plan for why He conceals
Himself from humanity for a period of time?
And if not, why not?
Could God have a reason for the pain and suffering that
we go through?
Who can grow more wiser: one who has never been hungry,
and never experienced hardships, or one who has gone
through these and handled them?
Which individual is better equipped: one who has sympathy,
or one with empathy?
The Bible has answers to these questions, but the current
god of this age has blinded the eyes of God's wonderful
plan for us.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by AZPaul3, posted 04-14-2024 8:59 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by Zucadragon, posted 04-16-2024 9:51 AM candle2 has replied
 Message 30 by AZPaul3, posted 04-16-2024 10:59 AM candle2 has not replied

  
candle2
Member
Posts: 873
Joined: 12-31-2018


Message 28 of 98 (917780)
04-16-2024 10:45 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by Zucadragon
04-16-2024 9:51 AM


Re: FYI
Zucadrago, you stated:
"Do you believe that any scientist says the universe came
from nothing? It's a straw man argument of reality, so
good luck finding anyone going along with that bullshit."
***Absolutely, I am saying this!
Tell me how anything came to be.
I have a Book that was written by men who were
instructed by God; men who were filled with God's
Holy Spirit.
God told them that He created all there is.
The best the limited mind of atheistic scientists can
offer are suggestions that go like this:
In all likelihood; there's a possibility; there is a good
chance, we think that it, the very beginning was probably;
etc...
These from the same scientists who stress that life could
could have leached from rocks, or pond scum, of from a
meteorite.
The Creator states, matter of factly, that He did this.
Atheists can only offer suggestion.
One side is certain; the other side is grasping at straws.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Zucadragon, posted 04-16-2024 9:51 AM Zucadragon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by Taq, posted 04-16-2024 10:56 AM candle2 has not replied
 Message 31 by AZPaul3, posted 04-16-2024 11:08 AM candle2 has replied
 Message 32 by Zucadragon, posted 04-16-2024 2:55 PM candle2 has not replied

  
candle2
Member
Posts: 873
Joined: 12-31-2018


Message 36 of 98 (917805)
04-17-2024 7:15 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by Percy
04-16-2024 4:05 PM


Re: FYI
Percy, I appreciate your advice. Perhaps you can give me
another piece of advice.
When I am typing out my message, my message screen
will not allow me to move upwards. I cannot check what
I have already written.
It's been this way for several weeks.
Advice from anyone would be appreciated.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Percy, posted 04-16-2024 4:05 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by Percy, posted 04-17-2024 7:29 AM candle2 has not replied

  
candle2
Member
Posts: 873
Joined: 12-31-2018


Message 39 of 98 (917815)
04-17-2024 11:52 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by Zucadragon
04-17-2024 9:40 AM


Re: FYI
Zucadrago, my wife and I had IPhone. She gave hers to
our youngest grandson. And then she took mine.
I am using a Galaxy A025.
I will not be posting again for 4 or 5 days, but I would
appreciate any suggestions.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Zucadragon, posted 04-17-2024 9:40 AM Zucadragon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by Zucadragon, posted 04-17-2024 12:27 PM candle2 has not replied

  
candle2
Member
Posts: 873
Joined: 12-31-2018


Message 43 of 98 (918595)
05-13-2024 11:03 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by AZPaul3
04-16-2024 11:08 AM


Re: FYI
AZPaul you wrote (referring to Bible, and the men who
wrote it):
"This is an article of faith. It is false. The authors were
all religious nutjobs and lying priests just like you. They
are complicit in fostering this evil on humanity as are you."
***All historical science must be accepted by faith.
Atheists take it by faith that the earth began 4.3 billion
years ago.
It is impossible for men, who lean on their own frail
understanding, to say what happened billions of years
ago.
It is impossible for men, who lean on their own frail
understanding, to say what happened 10,000 years
ago.
We, humans, sometimes rely on assumptions to fill in
details of what actually happened several hundred years
ago.
Humans can believe whatever we want, but what we
believe is based solely on our worldview, and not on
actual science; not operational/observable science.
The Bible is not a single book. In fact, it is a collection of
66 books, written by slightly less than 40 authors.
It was written over a period of1500+ years.
Who is going to believe that all these authors, over such
an enormous length of time, would actually devote their
lives to a baseless conspiracy?
They had nothing to gain. In fact, many of the writers of
both the Old and New Testaments gave their lives for
their beliefs.
They did what they did because they were 100% certain
that God exists, and that God had revealed Himself to
them.
I am certain of this same fact.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by AZPaul3, posted 04-16-2024 11:08 AM AZPaul3 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by NosyNed, posted 05-13-2024 11:26 AM candle2 has not replied
 Message 45 by Percy, posted 05-13-2024 12:44 PM candle2 has not replied
 Message 46 by DrJones*, posted 05-13-2024 11:38 PM candle2 has not replied
 Message 47 by Tanypteryx, posted 05-14-2024 2:52 AM candle2 has replied

  
candle2
Member
Posts: 873
Joined: 12-31-2018


Message 48 of 98 (918609)
05-15-2024 1:56 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by Tanypteryx
05-14-2024 2:52 AM


Re: FYI
Tanypteryx, you wrote:
"They show us exactly how galaxies looked billions of years
in the past and your religion is a poor excuse for your
ignorance about how science works."
***What the JWST shows us is that the most distant
galaxies are much like the ones nearest to us. The JWST
shows us mature galaxies.
There are spiral, elliptical, and irregular galaxies that are
as mature as those closest to us.
Using triangulation to determine the distance of galaxies
is not reliable with distances of more than 100 light years.
Measuring distance of 100 light years is similar to
triangulating the distance from Miami to Juneau, with
the two points in Miami being 18 inches apart.
Farther out astronomers calculate distance by
luminosity. It is assumed that the brighter an object appears,
the closer it is to us. Fainter objects are assumed to be
farther away.
The degree of brightness of an object could due to
distance, luminosity, or perhaps interferencInterference.
Red shift is also questionable.
Light travels slower in dense material, and faster in
thinner space.
It is nor scientific to assume that light had always traveled
at the same speed.
In Isaiah 42:5 God states that He stretched out the
heavens.
The same statement is found in Isaiah 40:22 & 44:24.
God could have stretched out the heavens at millions of
times faster than the speed of light.
God stretching out the heavens could be the source of
"red shift."
In any event, regardless of how old the universe is, it does
not rule out God being the Creator.
I have stated on this forum several times that the creation
account in Genesis 1 & 2, is a "renewing" of the earth. God
was preparing earth for the creation of man.
I believe it was a renewing based on Biblical evidence only.
Science and Creation are extremely compatable.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Tanypteryx, posted 05-14-2024 2:52 AM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by Percy, posted 05-15-2024 9:16 PM candle2 has replied
 Message 50 by Tanypteryx, posted 05-15-2024 11:57 PM candle2 has not replied
 Message 51 by dwise1, posted 05-16-2024 9:06 AM candle2 has not replied
 Message 59 by Tanypteryx, posted 05-18-2024 1:25 PM candle2 has replied

  
candle2
Member
Posts: 873
Joined: 12-31-2018


Message 52 of 98 (918626)
05-16-2024 3:47 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by Percy
05-15-2024 9:16 PM


Re: FYI
Percy, you wrote:
"Actually, triangulation can be applied out to distances of
as much as 400 light years."
***I read the same about 400 light years, but considering
how difficult it would be at 100 light years, I find it difficult
to believe with any degree of certainty.
Using my head here, but the distance amounts to:
2,400,000,000,000,000 miles (approximately).
Even taking measurements at six months apart, when
earth has completed half its trip around the sun, this is
still a huge number.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by Percy, posted 05-15-2024 9:16 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by Percy, posted 05-16-2024 4:29 PM candle2 has not replied
 Message 56 by Theodoric, posted 05-16-2024 8:11 PM candle2 has not replied

  
candle2
Member
Posts: 873
Joined: 12-31-2018


Message 57 of 98 (918674)
05-17-2024 6:25 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Tangle
03-31-2024 4:49 PM


Tangle, you wrote:
"It made me bloody angry, I had to leave the room."
This Christian obsession with and mass glorification
of torture made me squirm."
***Just because someone calls himself a Christian does
not make it so.
No true Christian takes pleasure in what Jesus
went through.
Isaiah 52:14 states that Jesus' visage was marred
(disfigured) more than any man, and His form more than
the sons of men.
Isaiah 50:6 (NKJV) "I gave my back to those who struck
Me, and My cheeks to those who plucked out the beard;
I did not hide My face from shame and spitting."
In Judea, at the time of Christ, a man's beard was a mark
of honor. To have one's beard plucked out by the roots
was to show total disdain for the victim.
Luke 22:64 states that Jesus was blindfolded. They would
then strike Him in His face and head. Then they would
challenge Him by asking: "Prophesy! Who is the one who
hit you?
Jesus could not see them; therefore, He could not know
when to move His head to soften the blow.
The Roman Licters His body with whips containing
numerous straps. Attached to each ends were pieces of
metal, glass, etc. Each lash tore out chunks of meat. On
top of this, a crown of thorns was drove into His head.
Satan, as the current ruler of the world, despised the face
of Jesus. He kindled a rage into those who performed
this filthy deed.
Jesus had a kind, tender face. There was no deceit in His
eyes. Satan was intent on marring it beyond recognition.
Paul states in 1 Corinthians 7:23 that we were bought
at a price.
Many false churches preach that once one accepts
Jesus as his personal that he is then free to commit
sin with impunity.
God despises sin so much that the death of His Son
(Jesus is our Creator, His blood is worth more than all
our blood combines) was required to pay the death
penalty in our place.
If it were a matter of changing His laws in order that we
be free to sin at will, He could have done that without
suffering such a violent death.
To feel entitled to sin at will is every bit as wrong as those
who deny Christ.
What Christ did, He did out of love for us. He performed
the greatest act of humility ever recorded.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Tangle, posted 03-31-2024 4:49 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by Tangle, posted 05-18-2024 6:53 AM candle2 has not replied

  
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