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Author Topic:   Testing The Financial Apologists
Phat
Member
Posts: 18389
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 541 of 582 (918529)
05-07-2024 1:47 PM
Reply to: Message 539 by Taq
05-06-2024 10:58 AM


African Nations Repatrioting Gold Out Of US
This article caught my attention:
African and Middle Eastern Nations Withdraw Gold Reserves Amid American Economic Concerns
The article is from the Houston Post. (04/24/2024)
It supports my belief that the United States is in an economic war with a growing percentage of the world.
Houston Post:
In a move reflecting growing concerns over the stability of the American economy, several African and Middle Eastern nations have begun withdrawing their gold reserves from the United States in recent months. This trend marks a significant shift in global economic dynamics and underscores the increasing skepticism among nations regarding the traditional safe haven status of the US dollar and American financial institutions.(...)Their actions are prompting questions about the future of the US dollar as the world’s primary reserve currency.(...)Nigeria, Africa’s largest economy, decided to repatriate gold reserves held in the United States earlier this year. The move was met with domestic support, with Nigerian officials citing concerns about the long-term stability of the US economy and the need to diversify risk exposure. (...)In the Middle East, Saudi Arabia’s decision to withdraw its gold reserves from the United States sent shockwaves through global markets. As one of the world’s largest oil exporters and a linchpin of the global economy, Saudi Arabia’s actions underscore the growing disillusionment with the American financial system.
It is irrelevant whether or not Gold actually affects an economy. Perception is everything. The article concludes:
quote:
As these nations assert greater control over their financial assets, the balance of power in the global economy is poised to undergo significant recalibration, with far-reaching implications for the future of international finance.
I will stick to my guns regarding these arguments. As I am now limited to one post a day, reflective of the prejudice against my intelligence, I aim to make the one post count. Sometimes I feel as if I am wasting my time trying to convince a group of stubborn (and arrogant) old men that they are wrong.
Gold Reserves by Country, Metric Tons
Taq writes:
I would highly suggest you read the whole article.
I did read your article, Taq and I appreciate your input. I am learning from your sources as well and am refining my viewpoint.
The next notable event to pay attention to will be a conference on May 14th in Moscow.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 539 by Taq, posted 05-06-2024 10:58 AM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 542 by Theodoric, posted 05-07-2024 2:39 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 543 by Theodoric, posted 05-07-2024 2:49 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 544 by Admin, posted 05-07-2024 3:46 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 547 by Taq, posted 05-07-2024 4:51 PM Phat has replied
 Message 552 by Admin, posted 05-08-2024 4:05 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9283
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 542 of 582 (918530)
05-07-2024 2:39 PM
Reply to: Message 541 by Phat
05-07-2024 1:47 PM


Re: African Nations Repatrioting Gold Out Of US
You are conflating different things as is the writer of the article. These countries are not acquiring more gold reserves. They are moving them physical assets. A weakening US economy will have the same effect on the gold whether it is in the US or elsewhere. The price of gold is a standard world wide. It is what it is. This article makes no sense and the link they provide is to an Arabic site that is unreadable.
I have no idea who the Houston Post site is. The newspaper by that name shut down years ago, 1995. I am not going to waste time determining if anything they have is factual. You have been warned many times through the years to vet your sources.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 541 by Phat, posted 05-07-2024 1:47 PM Phat has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9283
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 543 of 582 (918531)
05-07-2024 2:49 PM
Reply to: Message 541 by Phat
05-07-2024 1:47 PM


houstonpost.org is not a real news site.
Houstonpost.org was created on 04/24/2024.
Feeling stupid yet?
Whois houstonpost.org

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 541 by Phat, posted 05-07-2024 1:47 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 546 by PaulK, posted 05-07-2024 4:31 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 13082
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 544 of 582 (918534)
05-07-2024 3:46 PM
Reply to: Message 541 by Phat
05-07-2024 1:47 PM


Re: African Nations Repatrioting Gold Out Of US
I think what Theodoric is asking you to think about is why it would matter where a country stores its gold.
The map of gold reserves by country has no relevance to the mistaken point the article is trying to make. The US has 8.1 thousand metric tons in gold reserves. Other countries gold being stored here is not part of that 8.1 thousand metric tons. If some country is storing their gold here and decides to move it somewhere else our gold reserves remain at 8.1 thousand metric tons. It doesn't affect our gold reserves at all. Nor anyone else's.
If Nigeria were storing a few tons of gold here in the US and the US economy went completely into the tank it wouldn't affect the value of that gold at all, except when measured in terms of dollars whose value would of course drop. Moving the gold from the US to Nigeria would not increase or decrease the value of that gold. Only fluctuating gold prices could affect its value. The story you cited makes no sense.
Searching the Internet I found that story echoed at many questionable websites. I couldn't find any mention of it at any actual news site, not even Fox News. Given Russian disinformation efforts, it wouldn't be surprising to find that this nonsensical story originated there.
In the future please vet your information. I don't know why there is so much flim-flammery about gold out there, but there is. Make sure you find at least one legitimate news source mentioning a story. It doesn't matter if they have a completely different view or interpretation from your source, but just the existence of such a story from a legitimate news site would at least give us confidence that, using this case as an example, Nigeria and Saudi Arabia were actually storing their gold in the US and moved it to their own countries.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 541 by Phat, posted 05-07-2024 1:47 PM Phat has not replied

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 13082
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 545 of 582 (918535)
05-07-2024 3:49 PM


Moderator Action
Temporarily increasing Phat's post limit to 3 posts per day to see if the feedback was meaningful for him.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17838
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 546 of 582 (918537)
05-07-2024 4:31 PM
Reply to: Message 543 by Theodoric
05-07-2024 2:49 PM


Re: houstonpost.org is not a real news site.
And the person who registered the site apparently lives in Iceland. Not exactly local to Houston.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 543 by Theodoric, posted 05-07-2024 2:49 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10158
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 547 of 582 (918538)
05-07-2024 4:51 PM
Reply to: Message 541 by Phat
05-07-2024 1:47 PM


Re: African Nations Repatrioting Gold Out Of US
Phat writes:
It supports my belief that the United States is in an economic war with a growing percentage of the world.
The US is certainly at economic war with Russia and Iran, having put economic sanctions on both those countries. I do think it is a fair reaction for countries to move their gold out of the US and into their own country for safe keeping. If the US is going to use sanctions as a weapon then we should expect some backlash.
However, all that is changing is where the gold is stored. I don't see how this makes any economic waves, only political.
I did read your article, Taq and I appreciate your input. I am learning from your sources as well and am refining my viewpoint.
You're welcome, and am encouraged by your openness. I'm wrong about stuff all the time, so I know that two step process of being stubborn followed by feeling like a fool for not changing my mind earlier. Hey, we're all human.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 541 by Phat, posted 05-07-2024 1:47 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 548 by Tanypteryx, posted 05-07-2024 7:03 PM Taq has replied
 Message 553 by Phat, posted 05-10-2024 3:07 PM Taq has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4504
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 548 of 582 (918544)
05-07-2024 7:03 PM
Reply to: Message 547 by Taq
05-07-2024 4:51 PM


Re: African Nations Repatrioting Gold Out Of US
However, all that is changing is where the gold is stored. I don't see how this makes any economic waves, only political.
I have always wondered why other countries would store any of their national (government owned) assets in the United States. Of course, I am equally puzzled why gold bullion is considered an asset.
I remember when Iranian assets were seized in 1979 and wonder what sort of assets they were.
Storing national assets in a foreign country seems risky. Is there a benefit to the U.S. for storing other county's valuable stuff? Does the U.'S. store any national assets in other countries?

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3
If you are going to argue that evolution is false because it resembles your own beliefs then perhaps you should rethink your argument. - - Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 547 by Taq, posted 05-07-2024 4:51 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 549 by Theodoric, posted 05-07-2024 8:35 PM Tanypteryx has seen this message but not replied
 Message 550 by Theodoric, posted 05-07-2024 8:37 PM Tanypteryx has seen this message but not replied
 Message 551 by Taq, posted 05-08-2024 11:01 AM Tanypteryx has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9283
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


(1)
Message 549 of 582 (918545)
05-07-2024 8:35 PM
Reply to: Message 548 by Tanypteryx
05-07-2024 7:03 PM


Re: African Nations Repatrioting Gold Out Of US
Well when you look at some of these countries, they may not have secure facilities. Also, I have to wonder when large quantities of gold changes hands how often does it change physical location.
A country buys a ton of gold. What are the costs of moving that gold? Especially moving it to another continent. It seems it would be much safer and cost effective to leave it in the US.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 548 by Tanypteryx, posted 05-07-2024 7:03 PM Tanypteryx has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9283
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


(1)
Message 550 of 582 (918546)
05-07-2024 8:37 PM
Reply to: Message 548 by Tanypteryx
05-07-2024 7:03 PM


Re: African Nations Repatrioting Gold Out Of US
Iranian frozen assets - Wikipedia.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 548 by Tanypteryx, posted 05-07-2024 7:03 PM Tanypteryx has seen this message but not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10158
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.4


(1)
Message 551 of 582 (918551)
05-08-2024 11:01 AM
Reply to: Message 548 by Tanypteryx
05-07-2024 7:03 PM


Re: African Nations Repatrioting Gold Out Of US
Tanyptyerx writes:
Storing national assets in a foreign country seems risky.
It does. Although, if you were going to store it in any country the US would probably be on the short list. Also, when they bought the gold it may have already been in the US to begin with. They picked the lazy option and just paid the storage fees.
Also, if they are thinking of trading the gold in the short term it is probably easier to trade it through the US Federal Reserve. It sounds like some countries are thinking of holding gold for the long term because of inflation worries, so then it may make sense to have their own facilities instead of paying the storage fees to the US and also risk confiscation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 548 by Tanypteryx, posted 05-07-2024 7:03 PM Tanypteryx has seen this message but not replied

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 13082
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.4


(1)
Message 552 of 582 (918559)
05-08-2024 4:05 PM
Reply to: Message 541 by Phat
05-07-2024 1:47 PM


Re: African Nations Repatrioting Gold Out Of US
The Houston Post's webserver is down.
Also, according to Central Banks that Keep Their Gold in Another Country published last year by Bunker Group, a precious metals firm (so consider this information tentative), it isn't true that Saudi Arabia kept their gold in the United States:
quote:
We have identified 3 main groups of countries based on where their gold is stored.
The first group is countries that keep all their gold at home. These include the USA, France, Russia, China, Turkey, Taiwan, Saudi Arabia, Great Britain and Spain.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 541 by Phat, posted 05-07-2024 1:47 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18389
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 553 of 582 (918577)
05-10-2024 3:07 PM
Reply to: Message 547 by Taq
05-07-2024 4:51 PM


The Issue Between Us Is Political
I'm convinced that the issue between the peanut gallery and myself regarding the role of the US Dollar in international trade, the value and purpose of Gold and other precious metal commodities, and the narrative of so called "experts" and other interests is in fact political. I say this now because I have observed that most of the people whom I trust who teach this stuff, while not "official government economists" are in fact three things.
  • Wealthy. They do not need YouTube video clicks to give themselves an income.
  • Libertarian or Conservative. They would agree with Ron Paul.
  • Largely in agreement with others who think like them.
    I found several sources which were not YouTube nor videos, though I cannot understand why nobody likes videos. Not every video is by a guy like Peter Schiff, who Percy sees as a rube because his father was one or because he sells gold. I am in agreement with Percy that any information from a precious metals firm can be labeled as "tentative" although I do not believe that it is a lie simply because a precious metals firm (or a conservative or a libertarian) reports and spreads such information.
    The written sources which I will quote from include
  • Andy Schectman, president of Miles Franklin and a widely read social commentator on world affairs.
  • Jay Martin
  • Jim Rickards
  • George Gammon (I mentioned him before)
  • Silver Institute
  • CNBC
    Other news media outlets who publish stories which catch my attention.
    I will also expose Jared Bernstein, one of Bidens office of economic affairs appointees and attempt to make a case not necessarily against Biden but against the "official government sources" which I honestly feel are at worst misleading and at best soothing the fears of the public for national interests.
    I must get ready for work now, though I will compile my next post late tonight after work.

  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 547 by Taq, posted 05-07-2024 4:51 PM Taq has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 554 by Percy, posted 05-10-2024 5:29 PM Phat has not replied
     Message 555 by Theodoric, posted 05-10-2024 10:16 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
     Message 556 by nwr, posted 05-10-2024 11:48 PM Phat has replied
     Message 557 by Taq, posted 05-13-2024 10:58 AM Phat has not replied

      
    Percy
    Member
    Posts: 22621
    From: New Hampshire
    Joined: 12-23-2000
    Member Rating: 4.4


    (1)
    Message 554 of 582 (918579)
    05-10-2024 5:29 PM
    Reply to: Message 553 by Phat
    05-10-2024 3:07 PM


    Re: The Issue Between Us Is Political
    Have you ever heard of John Nash? A Beautiful Mind, a movie about his life, recounts periods of delusion that he accepted as real because they came to him in the same way as his genuine insights.
    According to the Internet, "high blood sugar can cause cognitive problems, including poor judgment, difficulty making decisions, and information processing," while low blood sugar can cause "delusional thinking and visual hallucinations." Swings between high and low blood sugar can cause "irrational behavior and mental confusion." "Poor glycemic regulation has been shown to closely mirror mental health symptoms," like anger, anxiety, or depression.
    I think you're ill and that responding to you is mostly pointless because you're unable to absorb or correctly interpret much that is said, as is already readily apparent in many of your messages, including this one, as you blithely ignore or get profoundly wrong what has been said to you previously. For example, did you forget that we were discussing your claim that countries were shipping their gold out of US storage because, you also claimed, the US economy is weak?
    My unprofessional guess based on the symptoms you're exhibiting here is that your A1C is up around 13 and that prick tests are telling you your blood sugar is averaging around 300 to 400. I also think your mental health challenges are affecting your ability to effectively manage your diabetes. Get some help.
    And now, on to the pointless part of this message.
    I'm convinced that the issue between the peanut gallery and myself...
    The people in discussion with you are not a 'peanut gallery". A peanut gallery is a group of observers who toss in comments from the sidelines.
    ...the narrative of so called "experts"...
    The only one citing experts, which is the fallacy of argument from authority, is you. Everyone else is reasoning from information they uncover.
    I say this now because I have observed that most of the people whom I trust...
    You don't know enough to make assessments of who best to trust. It is also a poor way to carry on a discussion by looking for people to trust so that you can provide more examples of the fallacy of argument from authority. Stop looking for people to trust and start seeking understanding.
    ...who teach this stuff, while not "official government economists"...
    Nobody here but you ever mentions "official government economists."
    ...are in fact three things.
  • Wealthy. They do not need YouTube video clicks to give themselves an income.
  • Libertarian or Conservative. They would agree with Ron Paul.
  • Largely in agreement with others who think like them.
  • Nobody cares about the wealth, political leanings or who else agrees with them. We only care about the quality of their information and arguments. Which you can't tell us. Because you don't understand them. But you liked their videos and that's your criteria for deciding that their opinions have value.
    I found several sources which were not YouTube nor videos, though I cannot understand why nobody likes videos.
    Jeez, Louise, we've told you out the kazoo why we don't like videos. First, it's not you explaining things in your own words, it's somebody else. The whole reason for the Forum Guidelines requiring people to explain things in their own words is to insure that they understand the position they're advocating. We don't debate via link here. This has been the rule for well over 20 years, and you've been here the entire time.
    Second, a video is a slow way of presenting information, and even slower than that because there's no way to seek signposts to skip forward to the more relevant parts.
    And third and specific to you, every time I do check out one of your videos their manner practically screams "snake oil salesman."
    Please, please, please, for the umpteenth time, enough with the videos already. I know you've stopped putting them to your posts, but it's obvious you're almost typing what they say as they speak.
    Not every video is by a guy like Peter Schiff, who Percy sees as a rube...
    Boy are you confused. No, Peter Schiff is not a rube. You are the rube. Peter Schiff is the snake oil salesman. Get it straight.
    ...because his father was one or because he sells gold.
    No, not for that reason, as I apparently have to repeatedly tell you. Here's what I originally told you several years ago:
    Percy writes in Message 196 of thread Peanut Gallery Comments on Great Debate:
    Oh, wow, Irwin Schiff had a son who's a conman, too. Irwin was a leading voice in the tax protester movement of the 1980's, but he was at least honest enough to practice what he preached, convicted of tax evasion just like Kent Hovind and eventually dying in prison.
    Moving on:
    I am in agreement with Percy that any information from a precious metals firm can be labeled as "tentative" although I do not believe that it is a lie simply because a precious metals firm (or a conservative or a libertarian) reports and spreads such information.
    Nobody but you makes claims that something is true or false because of who said it.
    The written sources which I will quote from include
  • Andy Schectman, president of Miles Franklin and a widely read social commentator on world affairs.
  • Jay Martin
  • Jim Rickards
  • George Gammon (I mentioned him before)
  • Silver Institute
  • CNBC
    Other news media outlets who publish stories which catch my attention.
  • Even while we're telling you to stop trying to decide who to believe, here you are telling us who you've decided to believe. Would you please just stop.
    I will also expose Jared Bernstein, one of Biden's office of economic affairs appointees and attempt to make a case not necessarily against Biden but against the "official government sources" which I honestly feel are at worst misleading and at best soothing the fears of the public for national interests.
    No one here has ever mentioned Jared Bernstein. No one here is citing "official government sources." If you've got a beef with Bernstein or "official government sources" then go find a government discussion board and take your arguments there. Here in this thread you're discussing with us. Your job here is to rebut the arguments of those you disagree with, not to run off finding government officials to rebut.
    I must get ready for work now, though I will compile my next post late tonight after work.
    Work at responding to what people have actually said here rather than jousting with the phantoms of your mind.
    --Percy

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 553 by Phat, posted 05-10-2024 3:07 PM Phat has not replied

      
    Theodoric
    Member
    Posts: 9283
    From: Northwest, WI, USA
    Joined: 08-15-2005
    Member Rating: 2.3


    Message 555 of 582 (918581)
    05-10-2024 10:16 PM
    Reply to: Message 553 by Phat
    05-10-2024 3:07 PM


    Re: The Issue Between Us Is Political
    So you are just going to post shit and when it is pointed out to you that it is shit, you are going to ignore the responses and just post more shit. Time to treat you just like LMN.

    What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

    Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

    "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

    If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 553 by Phat, posted 05-10-2024 3:07 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

      
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