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Author Topic:   Testing The Financial Apologists
Phat
Member
Posts: 18457
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 526 of 668 (918468)
05-04-2024 8:18 AM
Reply to: Message 522 by Taq
05-03-2024 3:36 PM


Re: Moderator On Duty Soon
Taq writes:
So why are you all riled up about something that happened in 1933? How is that going to cause the US dollar to collapse now, in 2024? Why hasn't that collapse already happened in the intervening 91 years?
Times are very different now. I am riled up that the US government actually confiscated both gold and silver from the public. The price was stable, set at $20.00 an ounce. Of course, we were on the gold standard back then. After the government confiscation, FDR himself increased the price to $35.00 an ounce. The difference these days is that Gold is now an international commodity that has a market apart from the fiat currencies. Indirectly, Gold still sets the price/value of these currencies and has been reclassified as a Tier One Asset. Gold is not simply some rock that has value in relation to currencies. Currencies have value in relation to gold.
If any of you disagree, look at the statistics regarding Central Banks globally reversing their earlier behavior and becoming net buyers of gold.
Geographical Diversity For many years since 1971, the US dollar served as a paper ETF and spread value throughout the world.
Gold was, in the words of Keynes, a "barbarous relic". I have a lot more studying to do in order to defend my topic. One thing that I want to study is Keynesian economics, modern monetary theory, and the philosophy guiding the East in regards to assets and value.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 522 by Taq, posted 05-03-2024 3:36 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 529 by Theodoric, posted 05-04-2024 10:49 PM Phat has replied
 Message 540 by Taq, posted 05-06-2024 11:01 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9371
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


(1)
Message 527 of 668 (918471)
05-04-2024 9:35 AM
Reply to: Message 524 by Phat
05-04-2024 7:48 AM


Re: Hard Assets vs ETFs. (Paper Gold and Silver)
Do you really think the only fees of holding actual precious metals are a safe deposit box? Obviously you have never owned previous metals. You don't go down to the store and buy a couple $100 worth of precious metals.
You cannot claim there is too much regulation, but then call for more regulation. Your ignorance is blaring.
Look at China's debt. How do you think they are financing purchasing of hard assets?
As for debt are you talking about govt debt or personal debt. You have been shown before who holds the vast majority of govt debt. I am.not going to bother explaining again. The Chinese are not a worry.
Crawl back in your hole Chicken Little.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 524 by Phat, posted 05-04-2024 7:48 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9371
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 528 of 668 (918473)
05-04-2024 9:36 AM
Reply to: Message 525 by Phat
05-04-2024 7:58 AM


Re: The Name Is Bond.
Please show actual data about this gold moving to Shanghai
Provide actual data for this whole argument of word salad.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 525 by Phat, posted 05-04-2024 7:58 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9371
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 529 of 668 (918476)
05-04-2024 10:49 PM
Reply to: Message 526 by Phat
05-04-2024 8:18 AM


Re: Moderator On Duty Soon
Mostly word salad, but also an exposition of ignorance.
Nothing in economics or finance us based off the value of gold. It is a commodity that can be manipulated. Central banks buy it because it has value and it's stability. Precious metals are not highly consumed, they do not burn and are easy to track. They are not the basis of an economy.
Why were there no economic systems using gold as the sole currency and unit of account prior to the 18th century?

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 526 by Phat, posted 05-04-2024 8:18 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 530 by Phat, posted 05-05-2024 11:45 AM Theodoric has replied
 Message 531 by Phat, posted 05-05-2024 11:53 AM Theodoric has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18457
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 530 of 668 (918477)
05-05-2024 11:45 AM
Reply to: Message 529 by Theodoric
05-04-2024 10:49 PM


Re: Moderator On Duty Soon
You and I must have been meant to disagree. I'm not going to try and teach you since I resent you trying to teach me as well. I will let Gods intuition teach me all I need to know and pray that you and your wife are successful and comfortable in your retirement years. That is all I ask from you.
I also realize that I have failed to answer many of your questions, but if you ask some specific ones again (here) I will try and get to them. Keep in mind that none of us have a crystal ball, including relevant experts with actual degrees.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 529 by Theodoric, posted 05-04-2024 10:49 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 532 by Theodoric, posted 05-05-2024 12:05 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18457
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 531 of 668 (918478)
05-05-2024 11:53 AM
Reply to: Message 529 by Theodoric
05-04-2024 10:49 PM


Re: Moderator On Duty Soon
Theo writes:
Nothing in economics or finance is based off the value of gold.
So you are telling me that the "value" of fiat currencies is based only on the trust of the people?
It is a commodity that can be manipulated.Central banks buy it because it has value and it's stability.
The ones doing the "manipulating" now are foreign more than domestic. Other nations realize that they cannot defeat the United States militarily but they believe that they can destabilize us financially. Pay attention in the coming months.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 529 by Theodoric, posted 05-04-2024 10:49 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 533 by Theodoric, posted 05-05-2024 12:10 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9371
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 532 of 668 (918481)
05-05-2024 12:05 PM
Reply to: Message 530 by Phat
05-05-2024 11:45 AM


Re: Moderator On Duty Soon
As always you do not respond to what is actually posted or answer any questions. This has nothing to do with your god, nothing to do with intuition. Economics and finance is not a gut feeling.
As you have decided to just spout bullshit, how about you crawl under your rock for a while.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 530 by Phat, posted 05-05-2024 11:45 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 534 by Phat, posted 05-05-2024 12:12 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9371
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 533 of 668 (918482)
05-05-2024 12:10 PM
Reply to: Message 531 by Phat
05-05-2024 11:53 AM


Re: Moderator On Duty Soon
So you are telling me that the "value" of fiat currencies is based only on the trust of the people?
Show where I said this. The troll is now resorting to strawman arguments.
Can you explain how other countries buying gold is going to destroy the dollar and our economy. Explain the mechanism. How does the gold market influence the value of the dollar?
Pay attention in the coming months
Is this before or after the Jesus dude is supposed to show up?

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 531 by Phat, posted 05-05-2024 11:53 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18457
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 534 of 668 (918483)
05-05-2024 12:12 PM
Reply to: Message 532 by Theodoric
05-05-2024 12:05 PM


Re: Moderator On Duty Soon
Theo writes:
As you have decided to just spout bullshit, how about you crawl under your rock for a while.
When trust is lost, fiat money will need a "rock" to crawl under. Digital assets are as worthless as paper.
Theo writes:
Economics and finance is not a gut feeling.
You admit that gold provides stability for Central Banks. What provides stability for the currency in circulation?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 532 by Theodoric, posted 05-05-2024 12:05 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 538 by Theodoric, posted 05-05-2024 1:24 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 539 by Taq, posted 05-06-2024 10:58 AM Phat has replied

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 13085
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 535 of 668 (918484)
05-05-2024 12:45 PM


Moderator On Duty
I am setting Phat's post rate to one per day.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

Replies to this message:
 Message 536 by Phat, posted 05-05-2024 12:46 PM Admin has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18457
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 536 of 668 (918485)
05-05-2024 12:46 PM
Reply to: Message 535 by Admin
05-05-2024 12:45 PM


Re: Moderator On Duty
Its your loss..not mine.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 535 by Admin, posted 05-05-2024 12:45 PM Admin has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 537 by Tangle, posted 05-05-2024 12:52 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9540
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.9


Message 537 of 668 (918486)
05-05-2024 12:52 PM
Reply to: Message 536 by Phat
05-05-2024 12:46 PM


Re: Moderator On Duty
Phat writes:
Its your loss..not mine.
It really isn't Phat, you've gone loony tunes again. If God is your financial advisor, don't you think you might be doing a little bit better than you are?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 536 by Phat, posted 05-05-2024 12:46 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9371
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 538 of 668 (918487)
05-05-2024 1:24 PM
Reply to: Message 534 by Phat
05-05-2024 12:12 PM


Re: Moderator On Duty Soon
Stability in that an oz of gold will be an oz gold in 100 yrs.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 534 by Phat, posted 05-05-2024 12:12 PM Phat has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10199
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.1


(1)
Message 539 of 668 (918496)
05-06-2024 10:58 AM
Reply to: Message 534 by Phat
05-05-2024 12:12 PM


Re: Moderator On Duty Soon
Phat writes:
When trust is lost, fiat money will need a "rock" to crawl under.
Governments did away with the gold standard because of a lack of trust..
quote:
With World War I, political alliances changed, international indebtedness increased, and government finances deteriorated. While the gold standard was not suspended, it was in limbo during the war, demonstrating its inability to hold through both good and bad times. This created a lack of confidence in the gold standard that only exacerbated economic difficulties. It became increasingly apparent that the world needed something more flexible on which to base its global economy.
What Is the Gold Standard? Advantages, Alternatives, and History
I would highly suggest you read the whole article.
As the article states, a true gold standard only existed for 50 years, from 1871 to 1914. If the US hadn't removed the gold standard we would have had even higher interest and even more of a burden on our economy as other countries traded US dollars for gold. By the 1970's, it was really only the US who had any semblance of a gold standard. The rest of the world had already moved to fiat currencies. Also, gold is too inflexible for a modern economy because it puts a hard limit on the amount of growth in an economy.
What provides stability for the currency in circulation?
The stability in the amount of money in circulation and the economy that backs it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 534 by Phat, posted 05-05-2024 12:12 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 541 by Phat, posted 05-07-2024 1:47 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10199
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 540 of 668 (918497)
05-06-2024 11:01 AM
Reply to: Message 526 by Phat
05-04-2024 8:18 AM


Re: Moderator On Duty Soon
Phat writes:
Gold is not simply some rock that has value in relation to currencies. Currencies have value in relation to gold.
That's false. Gold is a commodity like any other.
If any of you disagree, look at the statistics regarding Central Banks globally reversing their earlier behavior and becoming net buyers of gold.
And they will trade that gold for currency when they feel they need it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 526 by Phat, posted 05-04-2024 8:18 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
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