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Author Topic:   Testing The Financial Apologists
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9280
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 511 of 582 (918440)
05-02-2024 9:44 PM
Reply to: Message 507 by Phat
05-02-2024 3:08 PM


Re: The Philosophy Behind The Topic
Chilton was a strong advocate of strict govt regulation of the commodities market. Ate you saying govt regulation is natural market forces?
So you are ok with commodities you like soaring. Fuck people that invest in commodities other than gold and silver.
The rest is unevidenced bs from your youtube fever dreams.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 507 by Phat, posted 05-02-2024 3:08 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 514 by Phat, posted 05-03-2024 9:28 AM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9280
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 512 of 582 (918441)
05-03-2024 2:14 AM
Reply to: Message 508 by Phat
05-02-2024 3:28 PM


Re: Moderator On Duty Soon
They live in places like Puerto Rico and they lve quite nice.
They live in Puerto Rico because there is an extremely poorly written law that allows them to live there tax free.
I examined the policies of Bart Chilton and how he forced JP Morgan Chase to pay a 900 million dollar fine for manipulating the COMEX
Chilton was a bureaucrat. He did not have policies, he enforced the policies of the current administration. Yes he pushed for rigorous enforcement of laws and regulations but they were not his policies. You examined nothing. You are not smart enough to understand this issue. Please provide source for the $900 million fine.
Logically, it is not universally known when our government will lose control of the dollar.
What does this even mean? Maybe you need to diagram the sentence in order figure out the meaning.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 508 by Phat, posted 05-02-2024 3:28 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 513 by Phat, posted 05-03-2024 9:11 AM Theodoric has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18388
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 513 of 582 (918442)
05-03-2024 9:11 AM
Reply to: Message 512 by Theodoric
05-03-2024 2:14 AM


Re: Moderator On Duty Soon
Theo writes:
You are not smart enough to understand this issue. Please provide source for the $900 million fine.
JPMorgan Chase & Co. Agrees To Pay $920 Million in Connection with Schemes to Defraud Precious Metals and U.S. Treasuries Markets
That came from the Office of Public Affairs.
I'll take an IQ test against you elitists any day of the week so back off with your personal attacks. I may be undisciplined in regard to providing data, but I have intuition which you lack. Data is all you ever go with. I only hope that you are smart enough to put 5% precious metals in your portfolio.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 512 by Theodoric, posted 05-03-2024 2:14 AM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 515 by Taq, posted 05-03-2024 10:48 AM Phat has replied
 Message 517 by Theodoric, posted 05-03-2024 11:41 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18388
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 514 of 582 (918443)
05-03-2024 9:28 AM
Reply to: Message 511 by Theodoric
05-02-2024 9:44 PM


Re: The Philosophy Behind The Topic
Theo, getting personal with me writes:
So you are ok with commodities you like soaring. Fuck people that invest in commodities other than gold and silver.
Did I say that? Nobody is ever going to get rich on soybeans or copper. The error that I believe you, Taq, and Percy make is that you have an incorrect view of the global monetary system. You see the US dollar as the modern day bedrock. I point out that its an illusion...what you see is quicksand. Percy will claim that I got all of this from YouTube con-men. About the only thing that he has right is that my blood sugar is high. I talk with people in person who are in the industry. I talk with people who are well educated yet much nicer than you guys. You think you know everything! How do I *know*? Because one of you will ALWAYS tell me that *we tried to teach you* but you never listen. Since when are you teachers? You have no more intelligence than I do. My economic sin was gambling. It was an addiction. That aside, I have done my homework.
AddbyEdit: Precious metals are *not* an investment. They are an insurance policy.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 511 by Theodoric, posted 05-02-2024 9:44 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 516 by Taq, posted 05-03-2024 11:02 AM Phat has replied
 Message 518 by Theodoric, posted 05-03-2024 11:44 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10158
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.4


(1)
Message 515 of 582 (918445)
05-03-2024 10:48 AM
Reply to: Message 513 by Phat
05-03-2024 9:11 AM


Re: Moderator On Duty Soon
Phat writes:
I may be undisciplined in regard to providing data, but I have intuition which you lack.
Your intuition told you that the markets should be deregulated.
In almost the very next post you say that people who violate the regulations within the commodities markets should be held to account.
So which is it? Should those regulations be removed, or should they be enforced?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 513 by Phat, posted 05-03-2024 9:11 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 519 by Phat, posted 05-03-2024 2:05 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10158
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.4


(1)
Message 516 of 582 (918446)
05-03-2024 11:02 AM
Reply to: Message 514 by Phat
05-03-2024 9:28 AM


Re: The Philosophy Behind The Topic
Phat writes:
You see the US dollar as the modern day bedrock.
It isn't just me. It's the rest of the world.
The US dollar is seen as the best currency to hold in national reserves as shown by how many nations do just that. The US dollar makes up almost 60% of foreign exchange reserves across the globe with the Euro in second place at about 20%.
I am also looking at history. How has the US dollar done against other currencies over the last 20 or 30 years? Pretty good. Is it collapsing like currencies in some other countries like Argentina or Turkiye? No. During this whole history the US dollar has been a fiat currency not backed by gold or anything else, and it has done well. You haven't offered anything to indicate that something will happen differently in the future.
I point out that its an illusion...what you see is quicksand.
You act as if we don't know that the US dollar is a fiat currency. We know. You seem to think that the US dollar will collapse just on the basis that it is a fiat currency. That's silly.
AddbyEdit: Precious metals are *not* an investment. They are an insurance policy.
If I were looking for an insurance policy I would buy bonds. In fact, that's what retirees usually do, putting a percentage of their funds in bonds as a no risk insurance policy and putting the rest in riskier investments for growth.
Added in edit:
You can also look at historical trends. For example, look at a comparison of the S&P 500, DJIA, gold, and silver here:
Stocks vs. Gold - Updated Chart | Longtermtrends
From those charts, I know what I would want to be invested in for the long term, and it isn't those two bottom lines (i.e. gold and silver).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 514 by Phat, posted 05-03-2024 9:28 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 520 by Phat, posted 05-03-2024 2:26 PM Taq has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9280
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 517 of 582 (918447)
05-03-2024 11:41 AM
Reply to: Message 513 by Phat
05-03-2024 9:11 AM


Re: Moderator On Duty Soon
A 5% holding of anything is not going to do much of anything. Do you understand percentages at all?
Do you have any concept the fees in holding precious metals?

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 513 by Phat, posted 05-03-2024 9:11 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 524 by Phat, posted 05-04-2024 7:48 AM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9280
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 518 of 582 (918448)
05-03-2024 11:44 AM
Reply to: Message 514 by Phat
05-03-2024 9:28 AM


Re: The Philosophy Behind The Topic
AddbyEdit: Precious metals are *not* an investment. They are an insurance policy.
Like Jesus? WTF does that even mean?

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 514 by Phat, posted 05-03-2024 9:28 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18388
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 519 of 582 (918452)
05-03-2024 2:05 PM
Reply to: Message 515 by Taq
05-03-2024 10:48 AM


Re: Moderator On Duty Soon
Taq writes:
Your intuition told you that the markets should be deregulated.
I guess what I meant was that the government should regulate them but the government itself should not ever interfere with them. I have no proof that the US Military keeps the price down for national security needs (which would be a nutty conspiracy) but FDR had no right to do what he did in 1933 did he? I mean, c'mon! You and AZPaul3 crow about the ongoing power of the US dollar worldwide, but if the price we Americans paid for that was keeping the price of gold and silver controlled THAT would be unfair.
What J.P.Morgan Chase did was also wrong and was properly addressed through a large fine.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 515 by Taq, posted 05-03-2024 10:48 AM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 521 by Theodoric, posted 05-03-2024 2:40 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 522 by Taq, posted 05-03-2024 3:36 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18388
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 520 of 582 (918453)
05-03-2024 2:26 PM
Reply to: Message 516 by Taq
05-03-2024 11:02 AM


The Name Is Bond.
Point taken. You have a valid argument for historical purposes. I would pay close attention to the bond market in the future, however. (Not going to claim that I know either)
Listen I cannot claim that I am right and you are wrong, but I sense a disturbance in the force. I will keep trying to provide better sources to make my case.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 516 by Taq, posted 05-03-2024 11:02 AM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 523 by Taq, posted 05-03-2024 3:39 PM Phat has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9280
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 521 of 582 (918455)
05-03-2024 2:40 PM
Reply to: Message 519 by Phat
05-03-2024 2:05 PM


Re: Moderator On Duty Soon
Regulation is not interference? Do you have any clue what you are yammering about?

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 519 by Phat, posted 05-03-2024 2:05 PM Phat has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10158
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 522 of 582 (918460)
05-03-2024 3:36 PM
Reply to: Message 519 by Phat
05-03-2024 2:05 PM


Re: Moderator On Duty Soon
Phat writes:
I guess what I meant was that the government should regulate them but the government itself should not ever interfere with them.
Regulations are the government interfering in a market.
I have no proof that the US Military keeps the price down for national security needs (which would be a nutty conspiracy) but FDR had no right to do what he did in 1933 did he?
So why are you all riled up about something that happened in 1933? How is that going to cause the US dollar to collapse now, in 2024? Why hasn't that collapse already happened in the intervening 91 years?
You and AZPaul3 crow about the ongoing power of the US dollar worldwide, but if the price we Americans paid for that was keeping the price of gold and silver controlled THAT would be unfair.
Gold and silver are a global commodity bought in an open global market. The only way any country can affect the price is by either dumping gold onto the market or buying a lot of it. I wouldn't be surprised if countries do do this from time. It certainly happens with oil, as when OPEC lowers or raises production quotas to influence the price of oil.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 519 by Phat, posted 05-03-2024 2:05 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 526 by Phat, posted 05-04-2024 8:18 AM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10158
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 523 of 582 (918461)
05-03-2024 3:39 PM
Reply to: Message 520 by Phat
05-03-2024 2:26 PM


Re: The Name Is Bond.
Phat writes:
Point taken. You have a valid argument for historical purposes. I would pay close attention to the bond market in the future, however.
US bonds are also very popular abroad because they are never defaulted on. However, the Republicans do like to flirt with having the government default on its debt which has stressed the markets in recent history.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 520 by Phat, posted 05-03-2024 2:26 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 525 by Phat, posted 05-04-2024 7:58 AM Taq has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18388
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 524 of 582 (918466)
05-04-2024 7:48 AM
Reply to: Message 517 by Theodoric
05-03-2024 11:41 AM


Hard Assets vs ETFs. (Paper Gold and Silver)
Theo writes:
A 5% holding of anything is not going to do much of anything. Do you understand percentages at all?
Do you have any concept the fees in holding precious metals?
Yes I understand the fees of owning a safe deposit box. Apart from burying it in the ground or buying a safe, there are no other solutions to safely store it.
I continue to study the markets and the global game that is being played. My argument is that it is the United States who is being played and while the financial media here hypes up stocks and bitcoin, the real bedrock is still gold and commodities. The nations of the world not in alliance with the West are slowly starting to understand this.
My basic argument is that the East (Shanghai Commodity exchange) is the ones who short the prices and then take delivery on the hard assets themselves rather than fiddling around with ETFs. This is smart. I have seen data on the dramatic increase in buying from the East.
AddbyEdit:
Business Insider
The debt is increasing and is approaching unsustainability. Though China still willing buys and holds our debt, I feel that it is only because their national interests depend to a large degree on our fiscal health. They are playing the long game, however.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 517 by Theodoric, posted 05-03-2024 11:41 AM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 527 by Theodoric, posted 05-04-2024 9:35 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18388
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 525 of 582 (918467)
05-04-2024 7:58 AM
Reply to: Message 523 by Taq
05-03-2024 3:39 PM


Re: The Name Is Bond.
Taq writes:
US bonds are also very popular abroad because they are never defaulted on. However, the Republicans do like to flirt with having the government default on its debt which has stressed the markets in recent history.
This is a bigger game than simply Democrat vs Republican. This is China vs the US. Look at the data of how much gold is being bought (in physical form, mind you) and moved from the Comex to Shanghai. It used to be London and the Comex calling the shots. Now, the East is in the drivers seat.
Years ago I learned that the US credit markets would someday be in checkmate. They could not raise rates too high without increasing debt exponentially. Yet if they lowered rates too far, real interest would be negative (after inflation). Of course everyone here hangs on every word from the FED and Powell and Yellin. The fact is, they have already lost and they know it. The American Public just don't know it yet.
You have shown me a lot of statistics from the past regarding the global influence of the US Dollar. Keep watching those figures and you will eventually see the change that is occurring.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 523 by Taq, posted 05-03-2024 3:39 PM Taq has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 528 by Theodoric, posted 05-04-2024 9:36 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
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