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Author Topic:   Testing The Financial Apologists
Taq
Member
Posts: 10199
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 505 of 668 (918432)
05-02-2024 11:24 AM
Reply to: Message 497 by Phat
05-02-2024 6:13 AM


Re: The Philosophy Behind The Topic
Phat writes:
Income, yes. Wealth, NO. If I had a son and left him $1,000,000. it should not be taxed. If he invested in Gold with the money I left him and the gold doubled in value, Biden wants 40% of the increase. Which is bullshit. Its all in how the taxes are done, however.
From CNBC:
quote:
There is no federal inheritance tax. In fact, only six states tax inheritances.
There is a federal estate tax, however, which is paid by the estate of the deceased. In 2024, the first $13,610,000 of an estate is exempt from the estate tax.
A beneficiary may also have to pay capital gains taxes if they sell assets they’ve inherited, including stocks, real estate or valuables. The federal capital gains tax ranges from 15% to 20%, depending on your tax bracket.
https://www.cnbc.com/select/what-is-inheritance-tax/
So he would have to pay 15-20% on the capital gains. If I am reading this right, capital gains would only apply to the difference in price between the buy and sell price. So this is exactly the taxes you would have had to pay if you sold the gold. Your son would not have to pay any tax for receiving the gold, just the standard capital gains once he sells it for a profit.
Others got mad when Biden shut down oil and gas and promised billions to some green new deal.
Biden approved massive projects for oil and gas. Subsequent projects were not approved because it makes sense to develop what has already been approved before opening up more. The US is already the world's largest producer of both oil and gas, and the new undeveloped projects that have already been approved will massively increase the lead we already have.
So what's the issue here?
Taq, you do not understand the role of a global reserve currency nor how that role will diminish once the world goes digital.
I understand it just fine. For all intents and purposes, the US dollar is already digital. Nearly every transaction I do is done digitally. All bank records are digitized. I can't remember the last time I paid for something with physical money.
You progressives want the billionaires to pay to build back better.
We want all Americans to pay for building it back better. We just happen to think that billionaires are in a position to help pay more. Progressives support a progressive tax system, go figure.
The billionaires could give two sh*ts about Biden, his attempts to control them, or your own jingoism and patriotic defense of the dollar.
"Jingoistic and patrioc defense of the dollar"? Something you picked up from YouTube?
I'm looking at the facts. There is no other currency on the planet that can fill the role of a world reserve currency other than the US dollar based on currency volume alone. The US has the world's largest economy with a GDP of $28.8 trillion. The next two closest are China at $18.5 trillion and Germany at $4.6 trillion. That's right, the third largest economy is 1/6th to 1/7th the size of the US economy. The US economy is a behemoth which is one of the biggest reasons the US dollar is the world reserve currency.
The other reasons the US dollar is the world reserve currency:
1. Exports make up a relatively small portion of the US economy compared to other economies, so there is no incentive for the US to manipulate the dollar for trade purposes. Exports make up about 10% of the US economy compared to 20% in China and 50% in Germany, the number two and three largest economies.
2. The US is a stable country and has the strongest military in the world. The reason that globalization exists is because the US Navy made it possible by guaranteeing free access to the world's oceans.
3. Other economies want to trade with the US because of the massive US consumer market, so they get dollars.
And some of the common folk refuse to get stuck with "the bill" either. Why you insist that the common folk pay the bill is in violation of the terms of the initial creation of the Federal Reserve, which instituted a small income tax only on the very rich. Now, years later, the taxes are spreading. Once a digital dollar is in place, I could no longer sell my car to a friend "under the table" without paying some sort of homage to Uncle Sam.
So you don't like a digital currency because you wouldn't be able to cheat on your taxes?
And I'm not rich enough to leave the country. Im not only stuck with taxes, Im stuck paying the cost of immigration.
You benefit from immigration in the form of lower prices based on lower wages paid to immigrants. Immigrants also pay into Social Security and Medicare, so they are supporting you.
Republicans have no better answers than Democrats, but want the government to allow more free markets and less regulations.
You were alive in 2008. How did that go? We've already seen what happens when regulations are removed.
Democrats seemingly want the government to be a large secular substitute for the church and feed and house everybody. How does that reward those of us who actually worked all of our lives?
The vast majority of Democrats in Congress are Christians. This is another conspiracy theory fever dream.
Added in edit:
Phat, found a pretty good article for you from the Middle East Council on Global Affairs.
Can BRICS Really Drop the Dollar? - Middle East Council on Global Affairs
I think it is a very fair and accurate assessment of BRICS and de-dollarization.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 497 by Phat, posted 05-02-2024 6:13 AM Phat has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10199
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 509 of 668 (918438)
05-02-2024 5:23 PM
Reply to: Message 507 by Phat
05-02-2024 3:08 PM


Re: The Philosophy Behind The Topic
Phat writes:
This man, Bart Chilton did have evidence and worked hard to fight the big banks who suppressed the metals.
A quick read of your link states that Chilton wanted to expose people who were violating the regulations within the commodities markets. Aren't you against those regulations? You seemed to be in favor of deregulation which would remove regulations that are currently in place to stop manipulation of the markets.
Even the US military uses a lot of silver, which would probably sit better with a lower price than a higher price. The US dollar is countercyclical to the metals price.
There are probably many commodities that are countercyclical. What's your point?
The BRIC nations aim to break the West's hold on setting the prices.
Far as I am aware, all of those commodities (silver, gold, oil) are global markets so the whole globe sets the price.
Currently, the war between Russia and the US is being fought financially as well as militarily. BRICS backs Russia to a degree.
BRICS is just a name. It isn't an actual institution.
Janet Yellin went around wagging her tongue at Beijing and warning that we would sanction anybody who helped Russia militarily.
Are you in favor of China giving Russia weapons and financial support?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 507 by Phat, posted 05-02-2024 3:08 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10199
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.1


(1)
Message 510 of 668 (918439)
05-02-2024 5:29 PM
Reply to: Message 508 by Phat
05-02-2024 3:28 PM


Re: Moderator On Duty Soon
Phat writes:
Logically, it is not universally known when our government will lose control of the dollar.
It's also not universally known when a retrovirus will escape from a lab and turn 99% of the human population into zombies.
One thing I know is that none of my YouTubers need YouTube to finance their lifestyle nor do they need to sell more gold. They live in places like Puerto Rico and they lve quite nice.
Human psychology is a strange thing. What I have noticed is that there are many people who try to make even more money even when they have enough to live on. Have you ever noticed that?

This message is a reply to:
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Taq
Member
Posts: 10199
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.1


(1)
Message 515 of 668 (918445)
05-03-2024 10:48 AM
Reply to: Message 513 by Phat
05-03-2024 9:11 AM


Re: Moderator On Duty Soon
Phat writes:
I may be undisciplined in regard to providing data, but I have intuition which you lack.
Your intuition told you that the markets should be deregulated.
In almost the very next post you say that people who violate the regulations within the commodities markets should be held to account.
So which is it? Should those regulations be removed, or should they be enforced?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 513 by Phat, posted 05-03-2024 9:11 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 519 by Phat, posted 05-03-2024 2:05 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10199
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.1


(1)
Message 516 of 668 (918446)
05-03-2024 11:02 AM
Reply to: Message 514 by Phat
05-03-2024 9:28 AM


Re: The Philosophy Behind The Topic
Phat writes:
You see the US dollar as the modern day bedrock.
It isn't just me. It's the rest of the world.
The US dollar is seen as the best currency to hold in national reserves as shown by how many nations do just that. The US dollar makes up almost 60% of foreign exchange reserves across the globe with the Euro in second place at about 20%.
I am also looking at history. How has the US dollar done against other currencies over the last 20 or 30 years? Pretty good. Is it collapsing like currencies in some other countries like Argentina or Turkiye? No. During this whole history the US dollar has been a fiat currency not backed by gold or anything else, and it has done well. You haven't offered anything to indicate that something will happen differently in the future.
I point out that its an illusion...what you see is quicksand.
You act as if we don't know that the US dollar is a fiat currency. We know. You seem to think that the US dollar will collapse just on the basis that it is a fiat currency. That's silly.
AddbyEdit: Precious metals are *not* an investment. They are an insurance policy.
If I were looking for an insurance policy I would buy bonds. In fact, that's what retirees usually do, putting a percentage of their funds in bonds as a no risk insurance policy and putting the rest in riskier investments for growth.
Added in edit:
You can also look at historical trends. For example, look at a comparison of the S&P 500, DJIA, gold, and silver here:
Stocks vs. Gold - Updated Chart | Longtermtrends
From those charts, I know what I would want to be invested in for the long term, and it isn't those two bottom lines (i.e. gold and silver).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 514 by Phat, posted 05-03-2024 9:28 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 520 by Phat, posted 05-03-2024 2:26 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10199
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 522 of 668 (918460)
05-03-2024 3:36 PM
Reply to: Message 519 by Phat
05-03-2024 2:05 PM


Re: Moderator On Duty Soon
Phat writes:
I guess what I meant was that the government should regulate them but the government itself should not ever interfere with them.
Regulations are the government interfering in a market.
I have no proof that the US Military keeps the price down for national security needs (which would be a nutty conspiracy) but FDR had no right to do what he did in 1933 did he?
So why are you all riled up about something that happened in 1933? How is that going to cause the US dollar to collapse now, in 2024? Why hasn't that collapse already happened in the intervening 91 years?
You and AZPaul3 crow about the ongoing power of the US dollar worldwide, but if the price we Americans paid for that was keeping the price of gold and silver controlled THAT would be unfair.
Gold and silver are a global commodity bought in an open global market. The only way any country can affect the price is by either dumping gold onto the market or buying a lot of it. I wouldn't be surprised if countries do do this from time. It certainly happens with oil, as when OPEC lowers or raises production quotas to influence the price of oil.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 519 by Phat, posted 05-03-2024 2:05 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 526 by Phat, posted 05-04-2024 8:18 AM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10199
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 523 of 668 (918461)
05-03-2024 3:39 PM
Reply to: Message 520 by Phat
05-03-2024 2:26 PM


Re: The Name Is Bond.
Phat writes:
Point taken. You have a valid argument for historical purposes. I would pay close attention to the bond market in the future, however.
US bonds are also very popular abroad because they are never defaulted on. However, the Republicans do like to flirt with having the government default on its debt which has stressed the markets in recent history.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 520 by Phat, posted 05-03-2024 2:26 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 525 by Phat, posted 05-04-2024 7:58 AM Taq has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10199
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.1


(1)
Message 539 of 668 (918496)
05-06-2024 10:58 AM
Reply to: Message 534 by Phat
05-05-2024 12:12 PM


Re: Moderator On Duty Soon
Phat writes:
When trust is lost, fiat money will need a "rock" to crawl under.
Governments did away with the gold standard because of a lack of trust..
quote:
With World War I, political alliances changed, international indebtedness increased, and government finances deteriorated. While the gold standard was not suspended, it was in limbo during the war, demonstrating its inability to hold through both good and bad times. This created a lack of confidence in the gold standard that only exacerbated economic difficulties. It became increasingly apparent that the world needed something more flexible on which to base its global economy.
What Is the Gold Standard? Advantages, Alternatives, and History
I would highly suggest you read the whole article.
As the article states, a true gold standard only existed for 50 years, from 1871 to 1914. If the US hadn't removed the gold standard we would have had even higher interest and even more of a burden on our economy as other countries traded US dollars for gold. By the 1970's, it was really only the US who had any semblance of a gold standard. The rest of the world had already moved to fiat currencies. Also, gold is too inflexible for a modern economy because it puts a hard limit on the amount of growth in an economy.
What provides stability for the currency in circulation?
The stability in the amount of money in circulation and the economy that backs it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 534 by Phat, posted 05-05-2024 12:12 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 541 by Phat, posted 05-07-2024 1:47 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10199
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 540 of 668 (918497)
05-06-2024 11:01 AM
Reply to: Message 526 by Phat
05-04-2024 8:18 AM


Re: Moderator On Duty Soon
Phat writes:
Gold is not simply some rock that has value in relation to currencies. Currencies have value in relation to gold.
That's false. Gold is a commodity like any other.
If any of you disagree, look at the statistics regarding Central Banks globally reversing their earlier behavior and becoming net buyers of gold.
And they will trade that gold for currency when they feel they need it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 526 by Phat, posted 05-04-2024 8:18 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10199
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 547 of 668 (918538)
05-07-2024 4:51 PM
Reply to: Message 541 by Phat
05-07-2024 1:47 PM


Re: African Nations Repatrioting Gold Out Of US
Phat writes:
It supports my belief that the United States is in an economic war with a growing percentage of the world.
The US is certainly at economic war with Russia and Iran, having put economic sanctions on both those countries. I do think it is a fair reaction for countries to move their gold out of the US and into their own country for safe keeping. If the US is going to use sanctions as a weapon then we should expect some backlash.
However, all that is changing is where the gold is stored. I don't see how this makes any economic waves, only political.
I did read your article, Taq and I appreciate your input. I am learning from your sources as well and am refining my viewpoint.
You're welcome, and am encouraged by your openness. I'm wrong about stuff all the time, so I know that two step process of being stubborn followed by feeling like a fool for not changing my mind earlier. Hey, we're all human.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 541 by Phat, posted 05-07-2024 1:47 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 548 by Tanypteryx, posted 05-07-2024 7:03 PM Taq has replied
 Message 553 by Phat, posted 05-10-2024 3:07 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10199
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.1


(1)
Message 551 of 668 (918551)
05-08-2024 11:01 AM
Reply to: Message 548 by Tanypteryx
05-07-2024 7:03 PM


Re: African Nations Repatrioting Gold Out Of US
Tanyptyerx writes:
Storing national assets in a foreign country seems risky.
It does. Although, if you were going to store it in any country the US would probably be on the short list. Also, when they bought the gold it may have already been in the US to begin with. They picked the lazy option and just paid the storage fees.
Also, if they are thinking of trading the gold in the short term it is probably easier to trade it through the US Federal Reserve. It sounds like some countries are thinking of holding gold for the long term because of inflation worries, so then it may make sense to have their own facilities instead of paying the storage fees to the US and also risk confiscation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 548 by Tanypteryx, posted 05-07-2024 7:03 PM Tanypteryx has seen this message but not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10199
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 557 of 668 (918593)
05-13-2024 10:58 AM
Reply to: Message 553 by Phat
05-10-2024 3:07 PM


Re: The Issue Between Us Is Political
Phat writes:
I'm convinced that the issue between the peanut gallery and myself regarding the role of the US Dollar in international trade, the value and purpose of Gold and other precious metal commodities, and the narrative of so called "experts" and other interests is in fact political. I say this now because I have observed that most of the people whom I trust who teach this stuff, while not "official government economists" are in fact three things.
Wealthy. They do not need YouTube video clicks to give themselves an income.
Libertarian or Conservative. They would agree with Ron Paul.
Largely in agreement with others who think like them.
Left off the list: economists.
What I think you forget is that greed trumps politics. Is there a big push for buying gold amongst the biggest players in investments? No. Do you think they are purposefully losing money for some political goal?
Gold is just an investment, like any other. It has less risk than some investments, but also less return. If you want to invest in gold, then go for it. Be my guest.
What doesn't make sense is all of the conspiracy theories surrounding the collapse of fiat currencies. The world gave the gold standard a try, and it sucked. We aren't going back, and for good reason. The gold standard is too inflexible for a modern economy because it limits the growth of the economy to how much gold you have. It also takes away tools that can be used to fix recessions and inflation. That's why the US abandoned the gold standard, well after the rest of the world did.
I will also expose Jared Bernstein, one of Bidens office of economic affairs appointees and attempt to make a case not necessarily against Biden but against the "official government sources" which I honestly feel are at worst misleading and at best soothing the fears of the public for national interests.
When you have something more than conspiracies, let us know.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 553 by Phat, posted 05-10-2024 3:07 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10199
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 560 of 668 (918610)
05-15-2024 3:20 PM
Reply to: Message 558 by Phat
05-15-2024 11:55 AM


Re: The Issue Between Us Is Political
Phat writes:
Why you always assume I am insane is because I am exposing the fragility of the US global financial position.
You are just asserting that the US global financial position is fragile. You aren't exposing anything. Your posts are the equivalent of the guy on the street corner with the sign "THE END IS NEAR".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 558 by Phat, posted 05-15-2024 11:55 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10199
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 574 of 668 (919010)
06-13-2024 11:23 AM
Reply to: Message 564 by Phat
06-12-2024 5:33 PM


Re: Thinking In Todays Dimension..
Phat writes:
Anyone with a basic knowledge of math may conclude that we are in way over our heads. The Debt is over 34 trillion.
Why is 34 trillion in debt a problem for the US?
My basic argument is that a reset is inevitable once the average consumer loses faith in the US system.
Consumers have lost faith in the US economy many, many times in the past. We are still here and doing just fine. The US remained the global reserve currency through all of those periods.
The US blew it when we started weaponizing the global reserve currency and sanctioning a nation as large and powerful as Russia.
Do you think Russia should be allowed to invade any country they want and the US should do nothing about it?
We have largely lost petrodollar status due to some dimwit announcing that we will go green. China has picked up on that dropped opportunity and ha basicaly been promised a PetroYuan.
And yet less than 3% of global reserve currencies are in Yuan. People don't want the Yuan because it is one of the most heavily manipulated currencies on the planet, and it is backed by an opaque economy where no one believes the numbers that China releases. Also, it is believed that China is even more heavily indebted than the US, and their economy is teetering on an economic cliff as we speak. That's not to mention the demographic bomb that is about to explode.
Janet Yellin recently threatened to sanction Beijing if they supported Russia.
Good.
WE as a nation are arrogant and financially clueless.
If you think the Yuan is going to take the place of the US dollar as the global reserve currency, then you are clueless. If you think the BRICS countries are going to allow China to control their currency, then you are crazy. India and China are openly hostile towards one another, do you really think they are going to go all in on a shared currency where 90% of it is controlled by China?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 564 by Phat, posted 06-12-2024 5:33 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10199
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 575 of 668 (919011)
06-13-2024 11:30 AM
Reply to: Message 566 by Phat
06-12-2024 7:45 PM


Re: Thinking In Todays Dimension..
Phat writes:
The world is beginning to dedollarize.
The dollar still makes up about half of global currency reserves, and the dollar is used in 90% of international trades.
The debt is over 120% GDP
How is that a problem? Japan's debt is 250% of their GDP, and they are still kicking along.
Trillion every 90-100 days is added to the debt.
The real value of that debt decreases due to GDP increases and inflation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 566 by Phat, posted 06-12-2024 7:45 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 576 by NosyNed, posted 06-13-2024 11:57 AM Taq has replied
 Message 593 by Phat, posted 07-03-2024 12:40 AM Taq has replied

  
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