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Author Topic:   Testing The Financial Apologists
Taq
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Posts: 10158
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.7


(2)
Message 496 of 581 (918422)
05-01-2024 11:01 AM
Reply to: Message 491 by Phat
05-01-2024 3:43 AM


Re: The Philosophy Behind The Topic
Phat writes:
And do they really need to tax every single profit anyone makes, no matter the denomination?
What does the denomination have to do with it?
If we do away with income tax you need something to replace it with, so what do you propose? A national sales tax would disproportionately impacts lower incomes. We could live on import tariffs alone perhaps, but this would strongly discourage imports and dry up that source of income. What's your solution?
It seems to me that the fairest way to tax people is in proportion to their income. Call me crazy.
Big government will likely get more authoritarian as it attempts to save the dollar from the decline which QE accelerated initially.
What decline?
quote:
A strong U.S. dollar will maintain the status quo in the near term, as markets brace for a risk the Federal Reserve's first interest rate cut gets delayed to the second half of this year, according to a Reuters poll of foreign exchange strategists.
Shrugging off a weakening trend late last year, the dollar has gained against nearly every currency tracked by traders and investors, and is up nearly 2.5% for the year.
Much of the greenback's recent strength is based on stronger-than-expected U.S. economic performance and receding calls for early Fed rate cuts. The timing of the latter is likely to have a bigger say on the currency's moves in the near-term.
reuters.com

This message is a reply to:
 Message 491 by Phat, posted 05-01-2024 3:43 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 497 by Phat, posted 05-02-2024 6:13 AM Taq has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18388
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 497 of 581 (918424)
05-02-2024 6:13 AM
Reply to: Message 496 by Taq
05-01-2024 11:01 AM


Re: The Philosophy Behind The Topic
Taq writes:
It seems to me that the fairest way to tax people is in proportion to their income.
Income, yes. Wealth, NO. If I had a son and left him $1,000,000. it should not be taxed. If he invested in Gold with the money I left him and the gold doubled in value, Biden wants 40% of the increase. Which is bullshit. Its all in how the taxes are done, however.
You all got so so mad when the Republicans gave a tax break to billionaires. Others got mad when Biden shut down oil and gas and promised billions to some green new deal.
Saudi Arabia sure got mad. We essentially told them that our petrodollar deal would decrease trade with them over time. China jumped in front of us bearing gifts and promised them the same deal we got in 1974 (Kissinger) with the promise of buying more oil from them.
Taq, you do not understand the role of a global reserve currency nor how that role will diminish once the world goes digital. You progressives want the billionaires to pay to build back better. The billionaires could give two sh*ts about Biden, his attempts to control them, or your own jingoism and patriotic defense of the dollar. The billionaires dont need the dollar.
And some of the common folk refuse to get stuck with "the bill" either. Why you insist that the common folk pay the bill is in violation of the terms of the initial creation of the Federal Reserve, which instituted a small income tax only on the very rich. Now, years later, the taxes are spreading. Once a digital dollar is in place, I could no longer sell my car to a friend "under the table" without paying some sort of homage to Uncle Sam. And I'm not rich enough to leave the country. Im not only stuck with taxes, Im stuck paying the cost of immigration. In conclusion, were I to be honest, I guess i'm mad at myself for not having saved more throughout my life.
Republicans have no better answers than Democrats, but want the government to allow more free markets and less regulations.
Democrats seemingly want the government to be a large secular substitute for the church and feed and house everybody. How does that reward those of us who actually worked all of our lives?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 496 by Taq, posted 05-01-2024 11:01 AM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 498 by Zucadragon, posted 05-02-2024 6:58 AM Phat has replied
 Message 500 by Percy, posted 05-02-2024 7:58 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 501 by Theodoric, posted 05-02-2024 9:33 AM Phat has replied
 Message 505 by Taq, posted 05-02-2024 11:24 AM Phat has not replied

  
Zucadragon
Member
Posts: 91
From: Netherlands
Joined: 06-28-2006
Member Rating: 2.9


(1)
Message 498 of 581 (918425)
05-02-2024 6:58 AM
Reply to: Message 497 by Phat
05-02-2024 6:13 AM


Re: The Philosophy Behind The Topic
Phat:
Income, yes. Wealth, NO.
So I'm in the Netherlands, and so called "vermogen" (Wealth) tax works by only taxing what you earn on your wealth. If you've just got it in the bank, it's only 0,01%, because you're probably not earning much, bank interest, so it's very low, but if you've got investments, it's up to 6,17%
Basically, it's just an income tax.
Why shouldn't that be taxed? It's a form of income.
Phat:
Republicans have no better answers than Democrats, but want the government to allow more free markets and less regulations.
They tend to have the answers that lead to explosive growths and then heavy collapses of systems. Deregulating leads to heavy short term incomes and long term instability.
I mean, most financial crashes in the US happened because banks could do stupid shit and weren't regulated.
Phat:
Democrats seemingly want the government to be a large secular substitute for the church and feed and house everybody. How does that reward those of us who actually worked all of our lives?
Well, one day you might need it yourself, you might need medicaid or medicare, you might need help or support of some kind.
If you give a homeless person 10 bucks, do you shout it off the roof tops and want recognition for it?
If you're earning enough to be wealthy and have a good comfort of life and amenities, shouldn't it make you proud that you're providing for others who are having a harder time?
Republicans want to strip away a lot though, even from those who worked hard, look at support for Veterans, how many of them fought in wars, got hurt, lost limbs, unable to work, but so many of them are on the street because they're not getting any support anymore.
Congressional Republicans' Legislation: 22% Cuts That Would Harm American Families, Seniors and Veterans | OMB | The White House
So, tax cuts to the rich, while actual cuts to american families who are already having a hard time.
Now, I'm not saying Democrats don't have issues, they tend to be pretty spineless, weaksauce, they don't push hard and agressive enough for things they want and a lot of them are also in the pocket of big corporations.
But in an apples to apples comparison, they're the party of the people way more than Republicans, who just pretend to be.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 497 by Phat, posted 05-02-2024 6:13 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 499 by Phat, posted 05-02-2024 7:34 AM Zucadragon has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18388
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 499 of 581 (918426)
05-02-2024 7:34 AM
Reply to: Message 498 by Zucadragon
05-02-2024 6:58 AM


Re: The Philosophy Behind The Topic
You make some good points. I am far from wealthy. Lots of my anger is at myself, for not saving more in my life. I actually need social security to avoid being on the street. I am a Republican by no means, but I do support freedom to earn a living without being bound by excessive taxation. 6.17% is very reasonable. Im not sure what the rate is here, but my beef is with the suppression of the commodities markets. The big Banks and hedge funds have a vested interest in suppressing the natural market forces that would send these prices far higher.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 498 by Zucadragon, posted 05-02-2024 6:58 AM Zucadragon has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 503 by Theodoric, posted 05-02-2024 9:41 AM Phat has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22606
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 500 of 581 (918427)
05-02-2024 7:58 AM
Reply to: Message 497 by Phat
05-02-2024 6:13 AM


Re: The Philosophy Behind The Topic
Would you please stop passing on the YouTube complaints and think for yourself. What's your A1C right now?
Phat in Message 497 writes:
Income, yes. Wealth, NO. If I had a son and left him $1,000,000. it should not be taxed.
You live in Denver. It wouldn't be taxed.
If he invested in Gold with the money I left him and the gold doubled in value, Biden wants 40% of the increase.
He can sell all of the original million with no tax consequences.
He he sells all or part of the million from the doubling in value then that portion will be taxed, but it depends upon how much he sells in any given tax year. Let's say he prefers not to work and and sells $100,000/year to provide a comfortable lifestyle? The tax on $100,000 of income after the standard deduction and all that is in the neighborhood of about $17,000, or 17%.
But if he did sell it all in a single tax year then his federal income tax on a million dollars would be around $325,000, or 32.5%.
Where is your 40% figure coming from? Is there a proposal before Congress to increase the upper tax brackets? What YouTube maniac did you hear this from?
I don't know why I'm writing this. You're not going to respond to anything that I say. You can only repeat what your YouTube videos tell you.
Others got mad when Biden shut down oil and gas and promised billions to some green new deal.
Biden did not shut down oil and gas. Are you perhaps referring to his restrictions on new oil and gas leasing on 13 million acres of a federal petroleum reserve in Alaska? It's a tiny proportion of the reserve, and it affects no existing leases, only new ones. And he approved the Willow Project, which affects 23 million acres. A large part of the driving force to restrict oil and gas drilling is to conserve the environment.
Saudi Arabia sure got mad. We essentially told them that our petrodollar deal would decrease trade with them over time. China jumped in front of us bearing gifts and promised them the same deal we got in 1974 (Kissinger) with the promise of buying more oil from them.
If you're going to parrot YouTube video claims at us you might at least provide some background. Saudi Arabia got mad at us why? Because of the 1974 petrodollar deal? Are they really mad at us, or is it just that someone on YouTube said so?
Taq, you do not understand the role of a global reserve currency nor how that role will diminish once the world goes digital.
This is like a camel telling a fish that he's not swimming correctly. The subtext here is that you're just passing on stuff you heard on a YouTube video that you can parrot but not explain since you don't understand it. You can repeat the declarations from the videos but cannot provide evidence or explanation.
You progressives want the billionaires to pay to build back better. The billionaires could give two sh*ts about Biden, his attempts to control them, or your own jingoism and patriotic defense of the dollar. The billionaires don't need the dollar.
More sound and fury signifying nothing.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 497 by Phat, posted 05-02-2024 6:13 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9274
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 501 of 581 (918428)
05-02-2024 9:33 AM
Reply to: Message 497 by Phat
05-02-2024 6:13 AM


Re: The Philosophy Behind The Topic
If you die and leave your son $1 million dollars it is not taxable, there is no federal inheritance tax. There is a gift tax, but you would be exempt.
The rest of your post shows a basic misunderstanding of economics. Almost as if you were manipulated by online propagandists.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 497 by Phat, posted 05-02-2024 6:13 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 502 by Phat, posted 05-02-2024 9:40 AM Theodoric has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18388
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 502 of 581 (918429)
05-02-2024 9:40 AM
Reply to: Message 501 by Theodoric
05-02-2024 9:33 AM


Re: The Philosophy Behind The Topic
If by that you mean that Percy and you know it better than I do, I firmly disagree. My intuition tells me otherwise. You both are missing this one.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 501 by Theodoric, posted 05-02-2024 9:33 AM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 504 by Theodoric, posted 05-02-2024 10:55 AM Phat has not replied
 Message 506 by Admin, posted 05-02-2024 1:33 PM Phat has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9274
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 503 of 581 (918430)
05-02-2024 9:41 AM
Reply to: Message 499 by Phat
05-02-2024 7:34 AM


Re: The Philosophy Behind The Topic
But you have no evidence of a conspiratorial suppression. There are no "natural market forces". The free market is an artificial construct that is very new historically.
Are you ok with all commodities soaring in price or just gold and silver?

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 499 by Phat, posted 05-02-2024 7:34 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 507 by Phat, posted 05-02-2024 3:08 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9274
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 504 of 581 (918431)
05-02-2024 10:55 AM
Reply to: Message 502 by Phat
05-02-2024 9:40 AM


Re: The Philosophy Behind The Topic
Intuition is worthless against facts. It is factually true that the $1 million is not taxed. It is also factually true that profits made off of investing that money is taxable as that would be income. It is also factually true that those profits will not be taxed at a 40% rate. It is also factually true that President Biden is not responsible for the tax rates.
So where is intuition involved.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 502 by Phat, posted 05-02-2024 9:40 AM Phat has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10158
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 505 of 581 (918432)
05-02-2024 11:24 AM
Reply to: Message 497 by Phat
05-02-2024 6:13 AM


Re: The Philosophy Behind The Topic
Phat writes:
Income, yes. Wealth, NO. If I had a son and left him $1,000,000. it should not be taxed. If he invested in Gold with the money I left him and the gold doubled in value, Biden wants 40% of the increase. Which is bullshit. Its all in how the taxes are done, however.
From CNBC:
quote:
There is no federal inheritance tax. In fact, only six states tax inheritances.
There is a federal estate tax, however, which is paid by the estate of the deceased. In 2024, the first $13,610,000 of an estate is exempt from the estate tax.
A beneficiary may also have to pay capital gains taxes if they sell assets they’ve inherited, including stocks, real estate or valuables. The federal capital gains tax ranges from 15% to 20%, depending on your tax bracket.
https://www.cnbc.com/select/what-is-inheritance-tax/
So he would have to pay 15-20% on the capital gains. If I am reading this right, capital gains would only apply to the difference in price between the buy and sell price. So this is exactly the taxes you would have had to pay if you sold the gold. Your son would not have to pay any tax for receiving the gold, just the standard capital gains once he sells it for a profit.
Others got mad when Biden shut down oil and gas and promised billions to some green new deal.
Biden approved massive projects for oil and gas. Subsequent projects were not approved because it makes sense to develop what has already been approved before opening up more. The US is already the world's largest producer of both oil and gas, and the new undeveloped projects that have already been approved will massively increase the lead we already have.
So what's the issue here?
Taq, you do not understand the role of a global reserve currency nor how that role will diminish once the world goes digital.
I understand it just fine. For all intents and purposes, the US dollar is already digital. Nearly every transaction I do is done digitally. All bank records are digitized. I can't remember the last time I paid for something with physical money.
You progressives want the billionaires to pay to build back better.
We want all Americans to pay for building it back better. We just happen to think that billionaires are in a position to help pay more. Progressives support a progressive tax system, go figure.
The billionaires could give two sh*ts about Biden, his attempts to control them, or your own jingoism and patriotic defense of the dollar.
"Jingoistic and patrioc defense of the dollar"? Something you picked up from YouTube?
I'm looking at the facts. There is no other currency on the planet that can fill the role of a world reserve currency other than the US dollar based on currency volume alone. The US has the world's largest economy with a GDP of $28.8 trillion. The next two closest are China at $18.5 trillion and Germany at $4.6 trillion. That's right, the third largest economy is 1/6th to 1/7th the size of the US economy. The US economy is a behemoth which is one of the biggest reasons the US dollar is the world reserve currency.
The other reasons the US dollar is the world reserve currency:
1. Exports make up a relatively small portion of the US economy compared to other economies, so there is no incentive for the US to manipulate the dollar for trade purposes. Exports make up about 10% of the US economy compared to 20% in China and 50% in Germany, the number two and three largest economies.
2. The US is a stable country and has the strongest military in the world. The reason that globalization exists is because the US Navy made it possible by guaranteeing free access to the world's oceans.
3. Other economies want to trade with the US because of the massive US consumer market, so they get dollars.
And some of the common folk refuse to get stuck with "the bill" either. Why you insist that the common folk pay the bill is in violation of the terms of the initial creation of the Federal Reserve, which instituted a small income tax only on the very rich. Now, years later, the taxes are spreading. Once a digital dollar is in place, I could no longer sell my car to a friend "under the table" without paying some sort of homage to Uncle Sam.
So you don't like a digital currency because you wouldn't be able to cheat on your taxes?
And I'm not rich enough to leave the country. Im not only stuck with taxes, Im stuck paying the cost of immigration.
You benefit from immigration in the form of lower prices based on lower wages paid to immigrants. Immigrants also pay into Social Security and Medicare, so they are supporting you.
Republicans have no better answers than Democrats, but want the government to allow more free markets and less regulations.
You were alive in 2008. How did that go? We've already seen what happens when regulations are removed.
Democrats seemingly want the government to be a large secular substitute for the church and feed and house everybody. How does that reward those of us who actually worked all of our lives?
The vast majority of Democrats in Congress are Christians. This is another conspiracy theory fever dream.
Added in edit:
Phat, found a pretty good article for you from the Middle East Council on Global Affairs.
Can BRICS Really Drop the Dollar? - Middle East Council on Global Affairs
I think it is a very fair and accurate assessment of BRICS and de-dollarization.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 497 by Phat, posted 05-02-2024 6:13 AM Phat has not replied

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 13081
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 506 of 581 (918435)
05-02-2024 1:33 PM
Reply to: Message 502 by Phat
05-02-2024 9:40 AM


Moderator On Duty Soon
I will recuse myself for the standard two days and then take over moderation of this thread.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 502 by Phat, posted 05-02-2024 9:40 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 508 by Phat, posted 05-02-2024 3:28 PM Admin has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18388
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 507 of 581 (918436)
05-02-2024 3:08 PM
Reply to: Message 503 by Theodoric
05-02-2024 9:41 AM


Re: The Philosophy Behind The Topic
This man, Bart Chilton did have evidence and worked hard to fight the big banks who suppressed the metals.
Even the US military uses a lot of silver, which would probably sit better with a lower price than a higher price. The US dollar is countercyclical to the metals price.
This is unfair though to an investor.
Theo writes:
Are you ok with all commodities soaring in price or just gold and silver?
For now, just gold and silver. We do not need higher oil, for example. The BRIC nations aim to break the West's hold on setting the prices. The East wants more say in how the prices are set and what they are set at. Currently, the war between Russia and the US is being fought financially as well as militarily. BRICS backs Russia to a degree. Janet Yellin went around wagging her tongue at Beijing and warning that we would sanction anybody who helped Russia militarily.
The West can only win a military war if they also win the economic war.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 503 by Theodoric, posted 05-02-2024 9:41 AM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 509 by Taq, posted 05-02-2024 5:23 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 511 by Theodoric, posted 05-02-2024 9:44 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18388
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 508 of 581 (918437)
05-02-2024 3:28 PM
Reply to: Message 506 by Admin
05-02-2024 1:33 PM


Re: Moderator On Duty Soon
Percy writes:
No one here believes you're describing your understanding of an inverted yield curve. Everyone here believes you looked it up. It's not quite right anyway. We know what you meant when you said "mature higher," but what you really wanted to say is that short term T-Bills currently have a higher yield than long term.
Yes. If the yield climbs above 5% on either T-Bill, the YouTubers say it will be troublesome.
Percy writes:
I don't know why I'm writing this. You're not going to respond to anything that I say. You can only repeat what your YouTube videos tell you.
No, actually I look up what they tell me and compare it with written sources...like I did with Bart Chilton. I examined the policies of Bart Chilton and how he forced JP Morgan Chase to pay a 900 million dollar fine for manipulating the COMEX.
Percy writes:
Saudi Arabia got mad at us why? Because of the 1974 petrodollar deal? Are they really mad at us, or is it just that someone on YouTube said so?
I fact checked this one also. There are indeed two sides to the issue. On the one hand, Saudi Arabia wants to join BRICS. On the other hand, the US and Israel are close to negotiating a deal to protect the Kingdom.
US and Saudi Arabia Said to Be Near Historic Pact
OK so you were right. I need to step away from the YOUTUBEto get the full and complete story.
Taq writes:
What evidence is there that the US dollar is going to crash?(...) What we are missing from you is some cogent reasons as to why we are heading towards a massive economic downturn.
Point taken. Many many sources (on YouTube, nonetheless) are saying that the US Dollar will crash...UP. Not down. I am currently searching the media for stories about this.
Logically, it is not universally known when our government will lose control of the dollar.
AZ mentions that my sources all have a vested interest in talking as they do. Explain to me how that is any different than a financial advisor urging you to put certain stocks in your portfolio? It is a vested interest of the Wall Street Investment Advisors to keep their businesses growing, you paying them, and indirectly that you do well. By and large, the sources that I listen to are contrarians to mainstream financial advice. Globally, there is differences in agreement on how prosperity should happen and whose people benefit.
Drama gets clicks. Facts sometimes gets fewer clicks.
Yes but as people learn the facts, the facts will get more attention in the media unless they threaten the success of the system itself. One thing I know is that none of my YouTubers need YouTube to finance their lifestyle nor do they need to sell more gold. They live in places like Puerto Rico and they lve quite nice.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 506 by Admin, posted 05-02-2024 1:33 PM Admin has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 510 by Taq, posted 05-02-2024 5:29 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 512 by Theodoric, posted 05-03-2024 2:14 AM Phat has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10158
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 509 of 581 (918438)
05-02-2024 5:23 PM
Reply to: Message 507 by Phat
05-02-2024 3:08 PM


Re: The Philosophy Behind The Topic
Phat writes:
This man, Bart Chilton did have evidence and worked hard to fight the big banks who suppressed the metals.
A quick read of your link states that Chilton wanted to expose people who were violating the regulations within the commodities markets. Aren't you against those regulations? You seemed to be in favor of deregulation which would remove regulations that are currently in place to stop manipulation of the markets.
Even the US military uses a lot of silver, which would probably sit better with a lower price than a higher price. The US dollar is countercyclical to the metals price.
There are probably many commodities that are countercyclical. What's your point?
The BRIC nations aim to break the West's hold on setting the prices.
Far as I am aware, all of those commodities (silver, gold, oil) are global markets so the whole globe sets the price.
Currently, the war between Russia and the US is being fought financially as well as militarily. BRICS backs Russia to a degree.
BRICS is just a name. It isn't an actual institution.
Janet Yellin went around wagging her tongue at Beijing and warning that we would sanction anybody who helped Russia militarily.
Are you in favor of China giving Russia weapons and financial support?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 507 by Phat, posted 05-02-2024 3:08 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10158
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.7


(1)
Message 510 of 581 (918439)
05-02-2024 5:29 PM
Reply to: Message 508 by Phat
05-02-2024 3:28 PM


Re: Moderator On Duty Soon
Phat writes:
Logically, it is not universally known when our government will lose control of the dollar.
It's also not universally known when a retrovirus will escape from a lab and turn 99% of the human population into zombies.
One thing I know is that none of my YouTubers need YouTube to finance their lifestyle nor do they need to sell more gold. They live in places like Puerto Rico and they lve quite nice.
Human psychology is a strange thing. What I have noticed is that there are many people who try to make even more money even when they have enough to live on. Have you ever noticed that?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 508 by Phat, posted 05-02-2024 3:28 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
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