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Author Topic:   Israel Declares War For The First Time Since 1973.
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9283
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 312 of 378 (917986)
04-21-2024 12:22 AM
Reply to: Message 305 by LamarkNewAge
04-20-2024 9:56 PM


Re: When are you going to apply Bayesian Analysis, like you bragged about?
Link? Source?

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 305 by LamarkNewAge, posted 04-20-2024 9:56 PM LamarkNewAge has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9283
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


(1)
Message 313 of 378 (917987)
04-21-2024 12:24 AM
Reply to: Message 309 by LamarkNewAge
04-20-2024 11:01 PM


Re: When are you going to apply Bayesian Analysis, like you bragged about?
Still have no idea what you are going on about. More trolling?

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 309 by LamarkNewAge, posted 04-20-2024 11:01 PM LamarkNewAge has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9283
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 334 of 378 (918449)
05-03-2024 11:52 AM
Reply to: Message 333 by Phat
05-03-2024 9:43 AM


Re: Santayana
What is the relevance of Jerry Rubin? Do you know anything about him?

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 333 by Phat, posted 05-03-2024 9:43 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 335 by Phat, posted 05-03-2024 2:45 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9283
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 338 of 378 (918462)
05-03-2024 6:49 PM
Reply to: Message 335 by Phat
05-03-2024 2:45 PM


You brought him up. Why is he relevant?

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 335 by Phat, posted 05-03-2024 2:45 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 339 by Phat, posted 05-04-2024 2:17 AM Theodoric has replied
 Message 340 by xongsmith, posted 05-04-2024 2:42 AM Theodoric has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9283
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 343 of 378 (918470)
05-04-2024 9:25 AM
Reply to: Message 339 by Phat
05-04-2024 2:17 AM


Re: Jerry Rubin
Why do you feel he chose wisely? What business was he in? How successful was he. Is this all you know about him. Weird that you define the success of a person as how much knew they make as opposed to the good they do. Yet you seem to be at the low end of pay and an old man.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 339 by Phat, posted 05-04-2024 2:17 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9283
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 348 of 378 (918494)
05-05-2024 9:04 PM
Reply to: Message 347 by Percy
05-05-2024 8:42 PM


Re: I saw a Lex Friedman interview of Netanyahu a few weeks ago.
He needs to start providing links so we do not have to search for his sources. The rest of us have to, he should not be exempt.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 347 by Percy, posted 05-05-2024 8:42 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 349 by Percy, posted 05-07-2024 10:40 AM Theodoric has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9283
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


(3)
Message 351 of 378 (918526)
05-07-2024 11:43 AM
Reply to: Message 350 by Percy
05-07-2024 10:45 AM


Re: I saw a Lex Friedman interview of Netanyahu a few weeks ago.
I figure the only way I can function in the same forum as LNA us to ignore him.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 350 by Percy, posted 05-07-2024 10:45 AM Percy has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9283
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 364 of 378 (918787)
05-22-2024 5:10 PM
Reply to: Message 363 by Taq
05-22-2024 4:26 PM


Re: Israel is Recruiting the Next Generation of Hamas Fighters
The PLO endorsed a two state solution in 1982. In 1974 and 1975 the PLO diplomatic delegate to the UK, Said Hamammi, endorsed a 2 state solution.
The Israeli govt has always been solidly against a two state solution. In 1977 it was a vital plank of Likud. Netanyahu has repeated this numerous times. As recently as January.
Israel’s Netanyahu reiterates rejection of Palestinian state after Gaza war
The Palestinian Declaration of Independence is an indirect recognition of Israel. The 2017 Hamas charter call for the 1967 borders which is also an indirect recognition.
Please show how and where they turned it down.
The US has repeatedly vetoed any Security Council resolutions calling for a two state solution.
How do you expect the Palestinian people to react when they have no options? I am not condoning or supporting Hamas. All I am saying is that no one should be surprised with anything they do after how they have been treated by Israel, the west and Arab states for the last 75 years.
Please do research before you blindly follow propaganda.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 363 by Taq, posted 05-22-2024 4:26 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 365 by Taq, posted 05-22-2024 5:47 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9283
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 366 of 378 (918790)
05-22-2024 5:55 PM
Reply to: Message 365 by Taq
05-22-2024 5:47 PM


Re: Israel is Recruiting the Next Generation of Hamas Fighters
But in accepting the 1967 borders they are accepting Israel without declaring it outright. The accepting of 1967 borders was a huge concession. Hamas exists because of the intransigence of Israel and the US. The radicalism would not have taken over.if the Palestinian people saw a chance in negotiations with Israel. A kicked dog will bite.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 365 by Taq, posted 05-22-2024 5:47 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 367 by Taq, posted 05-22-2024 6:05 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9283
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 368 of 378 (918792)
05-22-2024 7:17 PM
Reply to: Message 367 by Taq
05-22-2024 6:05 PM


Re: Israel is Recruiting the Next Generation of Hamas Fighters
Let's start with Abbas. His own words seem to show he did not outright reject the offer and negotiations continued on the offer. The negotiations in fact fell apart on the Israeli side when Olmert was forced to resign due to corruption charges.
From your source.
quote:
Abbas said in an interview with Israel's Channel 10 television that he rejected the deal because he was not given the chance to study the map that spelled out Olmert's offer.
"He said to me, 'Here's a map. See it? That's all.' I respected his decision not to give me the map," Abbas said. "But how can we sign something that hasn't been given us, that hasn't been discussed?"
Olmert also spoke to Israeli TV, saying he told Abbas that it would be another 50 years before the Palestinians got another offer like the one he was giving them.
Abbas said in the interview, which aired late Tuesday, that negotiations continued but soon fell apart as Olmert, facing corruption charges, resigned.
As for Arafat, here is the Wiki entry on the negotiations. It is much more complicated than one sentence.
2000 Camp David Summit - Wikipedia
Here is one line from Wiki that puts into question Israeli seriousness of actually getting a deal.
quote:
The proposals made to the Palestinians were never put into writing, but told orally to Palestinian negotiators.[40] There are conflicting accounts as to what transpired
Read the whole thing. Look at what the Palestinians offered. Then look at what Israel may have offered. No one really knows. It wasn't written down.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 367 by Taq, posted 05-22-2024 6:05 PM Taq has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9283
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 369 of 378 (918793)
05-22-2024 7:24 PM
Reply to: Message 367 by Taq
05-22-2024 6:05 PM


Re: Israel is Recruiting the Next Generation of Hamas Fighters
Basically, if you are being starved by someone and they give you a shit sandwich are you at fault for not eating it?

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 367 by Taq, posted 05-22-2024 6:05 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 370 by Percy, posted 05-22-2024 8:18 PM Theodoric has replied
 Message 374 by Taq, posted 05-23-2024 11:16 AM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9283
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 371 of 378 (918795)
05-22-2024 10:33 PM
Reply to: Message 370 by Percy
05-22-2024 8:18 PM


Re: Israel is Recruiting the Next Generation of Hamas Fighters
Exactly Israel continues to make bad situations worse. They continue to breed generations of terrorists.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 370 by Percy, posted 05-22-2024 8:18 PM Percy has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 372 by Zucadragon, posted 05-23-2024 4:34 AM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9283
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 373 of 378 (918798)
05-23-2024 9:59 AM
Reply to: Message 372 by Zucadragon
05-23-2024 4:34 AM


Re: Israel is Recruiting the Next Generation of Hamas Fighters
Every Israeli govt and PM has worked against peace. The PM's and political parties use the threat of war as a means to maintain power. There is no incentive for peace. The Israeli economy is based upon a military industrial complex that puts the one in the US to shame.
The only reason they can continue to this is because they have the biggest bully in the world protecting them. Criticism of Israel is the final third rail in US politics. There is a bizarre alliance between the hard right orthodox jews and
the hard right evangelical christians. Each side thinks they are using the other and they hate each other. They hate each other so much they declare anathema on each other and would eradicate that other if they gained authoritarian power.
The Jews want a jewish "biblical" state. Outlaw other religions and institute a jewish patriarchy. The christians hope supporting Israel will lead to Armageddon and the return of sky baby jesus.
The US will continue to stand by as Israel commits atrocities.
Here are some articles on the Israeli govt and it's funding, support of Hamas.
How Israel Secretly Propped Up Hamas - The New York Times
Israel was complicit in the creation of Hamas. They encouraged it to sideline Arafat. If Arafat had less power, there would be less of a chance of pressure from its allies to work toward a two-state solution.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/...israel-helped-create-hamas
Instead, we have yet another generation of Palestinian fighters.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 372 by Zucadragon, posted 05-23-2024 4:34 AM Zucadragon has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9283
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 375 of 378 (918803)
05-23-2024 4:16 PM
Reply to: Message 374 by Taq
05-23-2024 11:16 AM


Re: Israel is Recruiting the Next Generation of Hamas Fighters
Bull shit. Arafat and the Palestinians had solid proposals. The Israeli's made amorphous oral proposals. Nothing written down.
Israel made a take it or leave it offer. They are the ones that cut of negotiations.
The Israeli "initial offer" was there first and final offer. There are reports that Israel wanted between 8 and 15%. That was only part of "the negotiations". The Israeli proposal put them in charge of most of Jerusalem, even Arab areas. Al-Aqsa mosque stays under Israeli control.(Israel knows this is a nonstarter). Why do you continue to try to portray the Gordian Knot of our time as having a simple solution? Do you think Ukraine should just accept whatever Russia wants?
As I stated earlier Israel"s desire for "serious negotiations" has been very questionable. They repeatedly offer onerous terms and when the Palestians don't just gratefully accept Israel and the US claim the Palestinians do not want a deal.
Have you read anything besides propaganda about this subject? Did you read the wiki link about the 2000 talks? Do you actually think what Abbas says is an admission of walking away from a legitimate deal? We know the reality is that he did not take Israel's first terms and the Israelis ultimately ended the talks.
The Palestinians have their issues and continue to devolve. Israel has huge issues and inflamed the situation for political and financial reasons.
Both sides are responsible for the situation. The difference is Israel is supposedly a democratic state that follows the rule of law.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 374 by Taq, posted 05-23-2024 11:16 AM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 376 by Taq, posted 05-24-2024 11:38 AM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9283
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 377 of 378 (918809)
05-24-2024 11:21 PM
Reply to: Message 376 by Taq
05-24-2024 11:38 AM


Re: Israel is Recruiting the Next Generation of Hamas Fighters
Or you could read what people who were actually there saw?
Opinion | Fictions About the Failure At Camp David - The New York Times
Did you even bother to look at any of the sources mentioned here?
2000 Camp David Summit - Wikipedia

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 376 by Taq, posted 05-24-2024 11:38 AM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 378 by Taq, posted 05-28-2024 3:39 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
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