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Author Topic:   Did Jesus Exist? by Bart Ehrman
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4500
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 556 of 563 (917657)
04-12-2024 12:32 PM
Reply to: Message 554 by LamarkNewAge
04-12-2024 12:21 PM


Re: Troll alert
Well, most of us here seem to quickly find what you write completely indecipherable, so we quit in frustration, and your behavior becomes more and more trollish. We seem to be able to communicate with each other clearly, but we're all increasingly confused by what you write. Sorry, but that is our reality, confusion when we try to talk with you.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3
If you are going to argue that evolution is false because it resembles your own beliefs then perhaps you should rethink your argument. - - Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 554 by LamarkNewAge, posted 04-12-2024 12:21 PM LamarkNewAge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 557 by LamarkNewAge, posted 04-12-2024 12:43 PM Tanypteryx has replied

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 2495
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 557 of 563 (917658)
04-12-2024 12:43 PM
Reply to: Message 556 by Tanypteryx
04-12-2024 12:32 PM


Re: Troll alert
That is one interpretation.
Most would say EvC is packed with people with a fundamentally unscientific mindset
EvC is packed with posters who don't even struggle with their complete, total lack of critical thinking skills.
I am not great at debating techniques, and one expert on debating critiqued me a few years back.
But you guys are hopeless.
You refuse to follow an argument or datum to it's logical end.
You refuse to engage with evidence you don't want to respond to.
You only want to debate the evidence you feel is weak enough to destroy.
(The reason why miracles and the supernatural keeps getting brought up, when historians have already rendered that type of evidence generally lacking and thus have ALREADY pushed it to the side)
(Percy and now Tangle have brought it up)
(Tangle has talked about nothing but the supernatural, but it is not what we should be bringing up. It is off topic)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 556 by Tanypteryx, posted 04-12-2024 12:32 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 560 by Tanypteryx, posted 04-12-2024 1:28 PM LamarkNewAge has not replied

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 2495
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 558 of 563 (917659)
04-12-2024 12:53 PM


I ask the Moderator to disallow any supernatural strawman arguments
The quest for the historical Jesus generally does not deal in miracles (there are vision type issues, that are relevant to the Historian, but it is not interpreted as supernatural by the historian, so far as I know).
This is a debate ONLY on whether Jesus existed as a man.
Miracles and the supernatural should not be allowed to be discussed in this thread.
(The only exception that should be allowed is if one points out what historians and science have concluded, via studies)
This is a strawman that is being set up by dishonest posters, and it is designed to disrupt the discussion

Replies to this message:
 Message 562 by Admin, posted 04-12-2024 3:55 PM LamarkNewAge has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9276
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 559 of 563 (917660)
04-12-2024 1:22 PM
Reply to: Message 553 by LamarkNewAge
04-12-2024 12:18 PM


Re: Troll alert
Really?
No one can understand your posts and now you resort to vile personal attacks.
Again, I am sure mods will take care of this. How about you leave me alone.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 553 by LamarkNewAge, posted 04-12-2024 12:18 PM LamarkNewAge has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4500
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 560 of 563 (917661)
04-12-2024 1:28 PM
Reply to: Message 557 by LamarkNewAge
04-12-2024 12:43 PM


Re: Troll alert
LamarkNewAge in Message 557 writes:
That is one interpretation.
Yep, I was giving you MY interpretation of MY interactions with you and MY interpretations of your behavior with other participants here at EvC.
LamarkNewAge in Message 557 writes:
Most would say EvC is packed with people with a fundamentally unscientific mindset
Most of who, I don't know who you mean. I was commenting on how discussions with with you always go, NOT how much knowledge any participants posses.
LamarkNewAge in Message 557 writes:
I am not great at debating techniques,
Well, that explains why you resort to insults and name calling when we cannot follow your argument or refuse to follow you down obscure rabbit holes.
LamarkNewAge in Message 557 writes:
You refuse to follow an argument or datum to it's logical end.
Because I cannot understand what you are talking about, and I rapidly lose interest in your insults.
LamarkNewAge in Message 557 writes:
You refuse to engage with evidence you don't want to respond to.
That's because since I could not understand you, so I did not know you presented any evidence.
LamarkNewAge in Message 557 writes:
You only want to debate the evidence you feel is weak enough to destroy.
Well, here I was not debating at all, because I was commenting on your repeated behavior in every debate topic I have seen you participating in.
LamarkNewAge in Message 557 writes:
(Percy and now Tangle have brought it up)

(Tangle has talked about nothing but the supernatural, but it is not what we should be bringing up. It is off topic)
If you don't like what people have to say, the solution is simple, ignore them, don't engage with them.
Every time you show up here you have a massive chip on your shoulder, why bother if you despise us that much?
And BTW is there any subject that you are not the absolute top planetary expert in?

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3
If you are going to argue that evolution is false because it resembles your own beliefs then perhaps you should rethink your argument. - - Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 557 by LamarkNewAge, posted 04-12-2024 12:43 PM LamarkNewAge has not replied

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 2495
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 561 of 563 (917662)
04-12-2024 1:30 PM


Romans 1:1-4 has been the subject since post 479.
It is very much a set of verses that alone probably falsifie the JESUS DID NOT EXIST theory.
And Carrier and Price know it is a challenge to the theory.
They are very honest about it.
They don't bring in strawman arguments.
They confront the issue.
The JESUS DID NOT EXIST theory is - essentially - admitted to be false, if proponents of the theory ignore Romans 1:1-4 text.
Carrier said it counts as evidence for historicity.
He said this verse (Romans 1:3) should be scored as twice as likely to be penned, by Paul, when he penned it, if Jesus was a historical man, verses a non-existent person who never lived.

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 13081
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 562 of 563 (917669)
04-12-2024 3:55 PM
Reply to: Message 558 by LamarkNewAge
04-12-2024 12:53 PM


Re: I ask the Moderator to disallow any supernatural strawman arguments
I'm a participant and can play no moderation role, but you might try posting to Report Discussion Problems Here 4.0.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 558 by LamarkNewAge, posted 04-12-2024 12:53 PM LamarkNewAge has not replied

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 2495
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 563 of 563 (917677)
04-12-2024 7:56 PM


I linked, in post 477, to Carrier admonishing those who only respond to weak argumen
He said one should always be honest in debate, and absolutely avoid the tactic of ignoring an opponents stronger arguments, while only responding to weak ones, then claim to have actually responded.
He clearly considers that worse than no response at all.
If character and integrity were all that won an argument, then Carrier would carry the day, every day.
It is too bad he is very probably wrong, ultimately, on the larger Jesus Myth debate, because his debate tactics are often exemplary examples of the best behavior we can ask for.
He prefaced those remarks to his debate with fellow Jesus Myther, Robert M Price.
Both clearly have a scientific mindset. Both are stand-up characters. Their good character alone could almost creat a personality cult of a faction of followers. Honestly.
Both have to deal with Romans 1:1-4
You can tell both know it isn't pretty.
It is downright ugly for the Jesus Myth theory.
But at least they are honest and use sound methodology. Sound arguments with a sober admission that the consequences are severe - for the JESUS NEVER EXISTED theory - if Paul was writing to early Jesus-following communities who understood him to be a man.
Romans 1:1-4
Romans
Chapter one
Verses one to four
+Not to ignore)

  
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