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Author | Topic: The Historical Jesus: Did He Create the Universe? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Tanypteryx Member Posts: 4597 From: Oregon, USA Joined: Member Rating: 9.7 |
Phat in Message 509 writes: As you ponder the wonder of the Sun being eclipsed by the moon and how the Sun itself is simply one of trillions of stars potentially existing, perhaps you can understand our (primitive) belief that matter was at one time initiated and did *not* always exist. I cannot see how the Universe today having trillions of stars and probably quadrillions of planets and all sorts of other matter and various fields, leads to a belief that it did or did not exist in the distant past. Observations give us many clues about Universe and how it has changed over time, but watching religious people jump to conclusions that are not supported by the observational evidence is just a huge bewildering puzzle to me.
I hope you and your wife have a relaxing yet exciting trip and that you feel better. Thank you!Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned! What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3
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PaulK Member Posts: 17918 Joined: Member Rating: 6.7 |
quote: Which says almost all we need to know. You can’t offer any serious defense of your claims. You just laugh at the truth.
quote: And this silly fantasy says the rest. Now how about you actually address the topic? Phat managed it. He even got it right. Which is more than you or ICANT have managed.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9489 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 6.1 |
Off topic and irrelevant
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9489 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 6.1 |
Off topic and irrelevant
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?
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candle2 Member (Idle past 128 days) Posts: 892 Joined: |
Percy, you stated:
"Please proceed with your evidence and arguments thatthe historical Jesus created the universe." ***It is accepted that Jesus existed, just as the NT stated. It is also true that the OT prophesied the birth of Jesus.And is true that the OT told us in advance where He was to be born. There were many OT prophecies concerning Jesus thatwere fulfilled in the NT. It is also true that Jesus was the God of the OT. He wasthe One who led the Israelites out of Egypt. He was the One who wrote the 10 Commaments on stone with His Finger. The NT states that Jesus was the One to create theuniverse and all that is in it (there is no know way that physical, material objects spontaneously come into existence out of nothing). There is no science, nor are there scientists, that caneven remotely explain this. It defies logic. The Bible has been right about everything else. With thisrecord of success, it is impossible to summarily dismiss other claims that it makes.
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Tanypteryx Member Posts: 4597 From: Oregon, USA Joined: Member Rating: 9.7 |
candle2 in Message 515 writes: It is also true that Jesus was the God of the OT. He was the One who led the Israelites out of Egypt. He was the One who wrote the 10 Commaments on stone with His Finger. And yet it doesn't say any of that in the old testament. The Jews who wrote the old testament didn't mention Jesus once.
candle2 in Message 515 writes: There is no science, nor are there scientists, that can even remotely explain this. It defies logic. That's a very common response when scientists are expected to explain imaginary fictional stories, because there is no science. It defies logic that you would expect that.
candle2 in Message 515 writes: The Bible has been right about everything else. With this record of success, it is impossible to summarily dismiss other claims that it makes. You really do seem delusional!Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned! What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3
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candle2 Member (Idle past 128 days) Posts: 892 Joined: |
Tanypteryx, you stated:
"And yet it doesn't say any of that in the old testament.The Jews who wrote the old testament didn't mention Jesus once." ***I have shown on this board several times that Jesuswas also the God of the OT. I would be willing to do it again, but only if one is interested. Right now I will post just one proof that Jesus was the Godof the OT. 1 Corinthians 10:1-4 1. Moreover brethren I do not want you to be unawarethat all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea. 2. All were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in thesea. 3.All ate the same spiritual food. 4. And all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drankof that spiritual Rock that followed them, AND THAT ROCK WAS CHRIST. Jesus (at that time He was the Word) was the memberof the God Family who went before the escaping Israelites in a cloud. When the Israelites were sandwiched between the Red Seaand Pharoah's army, the cloud (Jesus) moved from in front of them to behind them, between the Israelites and Pharoah's army. Paul plainly tells us this.
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candle2 Member (Idle past 128 days) Posts: 892 Joined: |
Tanypteryx, you wrote:
"You really do seem delusional!" ***If you truly want yo see a delusional person, go starein the mirror. While there, and while staring at yourself say "I am kin toChimps and warthog. I am no different than them." Also say, I believe, I do believe, that I, my wife, and mykids are proof that a frog actually turned in a man." I do believe in that fairly tale that a frog turned into aprince. If you do this, and you don't feel completely stupid, restassured that you are delusional.
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candle2 Member (Idle past 128 days) Posts: 892 Joined: |
Tanypteryx, you wrote:
"That's a very common response when scientists areexpected to explain imaginary fictional stories, because there is no science. It defies logic that you would expect that." ***You need to reread my statement. I stated that neitherscience nor scientists have any knowledge that would explain how the universe and everything in it come into being out of absolutely nothing. To assume that this happened is not science. Nature (natural things) do not come into existence out ofnothing.
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Tanypteryx Member Posts: 4597 From: Oregon, USA Joined: Member Rating: 9.7 |
candle2 in Message 519 writes: You need to reread my statement. I stated that neither science nor scientists have any knowledge that would explain how the universe and everything in it come into being out of absolutely nothing. And I stated that scientists wouldn't bother to explain that, because it is an imaginary fiction.
candle2 in Message 519 writes: To assume that this happened is not science. That is why scientists do not assume that happened.
candle2 in Message 519 writes: Nature (natural things) do not come into existence out of nothing. You have not presented any evidence that supports this assumption. Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned! What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3
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Tanypteryx Member Posts: 4597 From: Oregon, USA Joined: Member Rating: 9.7
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candle2 in Message 518 writes: If you do this, and you don't feel completely stupid, rest assured that you are delusional. I feel completely comfortable being classified as and animal and as a vertebrate and as a mammal. I am ashamed and embarrassed that the Homo sapiens species includes rapists and mass murderers.Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned! What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3
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Tanypteryx Member Posts: 4597 From: Oregon, USA Joined: Member Rating: 9.7
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candle2 in Message 517 writes: I have shown on this board several times that Jesus was also the God of the OT. No, you didn't. All you did was make assertions based on fictional accounts.
candle2 in Message 517 writes: I would be willing to do it again, but only if one is interested. Please don't, it's nothing but imaginary, fictional, bullshit.
candle2 in Message 517 writes: Paul plainly tells us this. Another imaginary fictional character.Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned! What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3
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dwise1 Member Posts: 6076 Joined: Member Rating: 7.2 |
What the hell are you talking about?
***If you truly want yo see a delusional person, go stare in the mirror. While there, and while staring at yourself say "I am kin to Chimps and warthog. I am no different than them." Why would you expect him to say such a stupid thing? Why would you expect any thinking person to say such a stupid thing?
The only people who would ever think that anyone would say such a stupid thing would be A STUPID LYING CREATIONIST! Are we related to chimps and warthogs (and all other mammals for that matter)? Yes, obviously! Are we no different than them? Of course we are different, obviously! What the hell is wrong with you, you STUPID LYING CREATIONIST? Why are you incapable of any action other than lying? Also say, I believe, I do believe, that I, my wife, and my kids are proof that a frog actually turned in a man." That's even more stupid and utterly false! WHY DO YOU INSIST ON INCESSANT LYING? Nobody says that humans descended from frogs, EXCEPT FOR STUPID LYING CREATIONISTS. Besides, it makes absolutely no sense at all! Evolution clearly teaches that all descendants of frogs will still be frogs! NO SPECIES CAN EVER EVOLVE OUT OF ITS CLADE!.
WHY DO YOU INSIST ON INCESSANT LYING? Were you always a pathological liar, or is it the corrupting influence of your false religion that has driven you to such utter debasement and depravity? And on top of that, everything you post is utterly stupid. Complete idiocy!
Seriously, your testimony to us is a warning to avoid your false religion completely. If you truly believe that anything you have posted has any merit at all, then it is you who are delusional.
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Admin Director Posts: 13107 From: EvC Forum Joined: |
Probably over the top.
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candle2 Member (Idle past 128 days) Posts: 892 Joined: |
Dwise, God gave Adam the responsibility to care for His
creation, as well as the ability to understand it. There is an order to the the world. There are laws of naturethat were established by the Creator. These law are constant. The mere fact that these laws are constant forms thebasics for science and experimentation. There is logic to everything that God does. Logic is notmade up of matter. Logic cannot evolve, nor can it decrease. Creationists deny the Creator, but they rest their beliefson this very foundation. If these laws were determined by an evolutionaryprocesses they would be evolving, changing. But they are stable. And they always have been. Genesis 8:22 tells us this: "While the earth remains, seed time and harvest, coldand heat, winter and summer, and day and night shall not cease." The universe and its laws are being upheld by God andHis Son. Hebrews 1:3. Without Him upholding His Creation it would crumble,and fall into decay. Things that are out of order never evolve into a state oforder. The exact opposite is true. The supposedly uneducated men who wrote the HolyBible understood this. This is why Paul states that God is upholding it. If He were not doing so it would crumble and decay. God is upholding it is the reason we are able to performexperiments and make predictions. If you believe that your brain is nothing but the by-productof pond scum, why would it matter what I think? Why be so defensive of a theory that has no evidence. I believe that you know God exists. I really do. But, asRomans 1:18-20 states, you suppress the truth. God's creation and its laws proves this to you.
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