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Author Topic:   A question for Evolutionists
popoi
Junior Member
Posts: 11
Joined: 03-14-2024


(1)
Message 16 of 21 (917491)
04-09-2024 2:16 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by RenaissanceMan
04-05-2024 1:29 PM


Attack on Titin
ChemEngineer in Message 9 writes:
The first, original synthesis, whether stepwise or in one single, continuous process, consisted of "selecting" 1 out of 20 amino acids making up humans, one at a time, 38,138 times, or 1/20 to the 38,138th power or 10-49,618. The pretense of claiming that "sections" of any protein were "assembled" overlooks the unassailable fact that any "section," however small, had to be assembled under the same statistical constraints. Whether one does the computations in one step or 1,000 steps, the figures are beyond dispute. They get a great deal worse, in fact.
It doesn't seem like you're representing things accurately here. If we were trying to produce an entirely unique sequence, it's sort of correct that we can't save any net effort by breaking it down in to sequences and making those first. The best you can do there is to make them in parallel.
But Titin isn't an entirely unique sequence. Mostly it's composed of a bunch of repeating protein domains chained together. So if we're producing it from scratch, there is no need to make each of those repeating segments individually. We can simplify the task by making those particular domains once each and then duplicating them for the remaining 100+ times each one appears.
It also seems questionable to treat it as a series of independent events that all need to happen before we have anything. If a shorter form of Titin is useful (and given that one exists that is 1/6 the size that seems pretty likely) then it's not a random selection of a bunch of elements in a row anymore, it's more like a series of steps that can happen one after another.
This is the reason I never found any of the probability-based arguments from creationists convincing. It seems like it's mostly about picking a set of assumptions that produces an impressive looking number without giving much attention to justifying why those assumptions are accurate.

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 Message 9 by RenaissanceMan, posted 04-05-2024 1:29 PM RenaissanceMan has not replied

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 Message 17 by Taq, posted 04-09-2024 5:28 PM popoi has not replied

  
Taq
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Posts: 10556
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 7.1


Message 17 of 21 (917527)
04-09-2024 5:28 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by popoi
04-09-2024 2:16 PM


Re: Attack on Titin
popoi writes:
This is the reason I never found any of the probability-based arguments from creationists convincing. It seems like it's mostly about picking a set of assumptions that produces an impressive looking number without giving much attention to justifying why those assumptions are accurate.
It's just the Texas version of sharpshooting.

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 Message 16 by popoi, posted 04-09-2024 2:16 PM popoi has not replied

  
Tiktaalik
Junior Member
Posts: 4
From: Ancient Canada
Joined: 11-26-2025


Message 18 of 21 (924494)
11-26-2025 8:33 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by robertleva
04-25-2021 7:54 AM


You can gain information. Say a gene duplicates than the duplicate mutates. You have the original and a new gene

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 Message 1 by robertleva, posted 04-25-2021 7:54 AM robertleva has not replied

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 Message 19 by AZPaul3, posted 11-28-2025 4:20 PM Tiktaalik has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8818
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 19 of 21 (924498)
11-28-2025 4:20 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Tiktaalik
11-26-2025 8:33 PM


Gene duplication is a thing. We have seen it in the lab and in the wild. But how? Who determined the gene to be duplicated? What powers rule that determine the direction and speed of this evolution?

"There’s simply no polite way to tell people they’ve dedicated their lives to an illusion,”
-Daniel Dennett
One of man’s greatest achievements was to reach out his mind and teach sand to think.
Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

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 Message 18 by Tiktaalik, posted 11-26-2025 8:33 PM Tiktaalik has not replied

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 Message 20 by Percy, posted 11-28-2025 4:38 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 23620
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 8.7


Message 20 of 21 (924500)
11-28-2025 4:38 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by AZPaul3
11-28-2025 4:20 PM


?
--Percy

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 Message 19 by AZPaul3, posted 11-28-2025 4:20 PM AZPaul3 has replied

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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8818
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 21 of 21 (924501)
11-28-2025 4:40 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Percy
11-28-2025 4:38 PM


Who, Me?

"There’s simply no polite way to tell people they’ve dedicated their lives to an illusion,”
-Daniel Dennett
One of man’s greatest achievements was to reach out his mind and teach sand to think.
Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Percy, posted 11-28-2025 4:38 PM Percy has not replied

  
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