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Author Topic:   The Historical Jesus: Did He Create the Universe?
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4500
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 504 of 536 (917436)
04-07-2024 1:55 PM
Reply to: Message 501 by candle2
04-07-2024 1:14 PM


Re: Rahvin vs Scripture
candle2 in Message 501 writes:
Pliny wrote to Emperor Trajan asking for his counsel on dealing with the early Christian community.
Was this before or after Jesus created the Universe?
candle2 in Message 501 writes:
Pliny conducted trials of suspected Christians who appeared before Him. It is suspected that they refused to acknowledge and worship Roman gods.
Was this before or after Jesus created the Universe?
candle2 in Message 501 writes:
In any case, after three chances to show their innocence they were executed.
Was this before or after Jesus created the Universe?
candle2 in Message 501 writes:
Pliny went on to say that investigations often revealed harmless practices. However, Pliny considered them to be depraved, and filled with excessive superstition.
Was this before or after Jesus created the Universe?
candle2 in Message 501 writes:
Pliny was concerned that Christian gatherings could serve as a potential starting point for sedition.
Was this before or after Jesus created the Universe?

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3

This message is a reply to:
 Message 501 by candle2, posted 04-07-2024 1:14 PM candle2 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 509 by Phat, posted 04-08-2024 10:50 AM Tanypteryx has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4500
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 511 of 536 (917452)
04-08-2024 11:23 AM
Reply to: Message 509 by Phat
04-08-2024 10:50 AM


Re: Rahvin vs Scripture
Phat in Message 509 writes:
As you ponder the wonder of the Sun being eclipsed by the moon and how the Sun itself is simply one of trillions of stars potentially existing, perhaps you can understand our (primitive) belief that matter was at one time initiated and did *not* always exist.
I cannot see how the Universe today having trillions of stars and probably quadrillions of planets and all sorts of other matter and various fields, leads to a belief that it did or did not exist in the distant past. Observations give us many clues about Universe and how it has changed over time, but watching religious people jump to conclusions that are not supported by the observational evidence is just a huge bewildering puzzle to me.
I hope you and your wife have a relaxing yet exciting trip and that you feel better.
Thank you!

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3

This message is a reply to:
 Message 509 by Phat, posted 04-08-2024 10:50 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4500
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 516 of 536 (917485)
04-09-2024 11:36 AM
Reply to: Message 515 by candle2
04-09-2024 11:18 AM


Re: Rahvin vs Scripture
candle2 in Message 515 writes:
It is also true that Jesus was the God of the OT. He was the One who led the Israelites out of Egypt. He was the One who wrote the 10 Commaments on stone with His Finger.
And yet it doesn't say any of that in the old testament. The Jews who wrote the old testament didn't mention Jesus once.
candle2 in Message 515 writes:
There is no science, nor are there scientists, that can even remotely explain this. It defies logic.
That's a very common response when scientists are expected to explain imaginary fictional stories, because there is no science. It defies logic that you would expect that.
candle2 in Message 515 writes:
The Bible has been right about everything else. With this record of success, it is impossible to summarily dismiss other claims that it makes.
You really do seem delusional!

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3

This message is a reply to:
 Message 515 by candle2, posted 04-09-2024 11:18 AM candle2 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 517 by candle2, posted 04-09-2024 3:26 PM Tanypteryx has replied
 Message 518 by candle2, posted 04-09-2024 3:36 PM Tanypteryx has replied
 Message 519 by candle2, posted 04-09-2024 4:07 PM Tanypteryx has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4500
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 520 of 536 (917521)
04-09-2024 5:08 PM
Reply to: Message 519 by candle2
04-09-2024 4:07 PM


Re: Rahvin vs Scripture
candle2 in Message 519 writes:
You need to reread my statement. I stated that neither science nor scientists have any knowledge that would explain how the universe and everything in it come into being out of absolutely nothing.
And I stated that scientists wouldn't bother to explain that, because it is an imaginary fiction.
candle2 in Message 519 writes:
To assume that this happened is not science.
That is why scientists do not assume that happened.
candle2 in Message 519 writes:
Nature (natural things) do not come into existence out of nothing.
You have not presented any evidence that supports this assumption.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3

This message is a reply to:
 Message 519 by candle2, posted 04-09-2024 4:07 PM candle2 has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4500
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.0


(1)
Message 521 of 536 (917523)
04-09-2024 5:13 PM
Reply to: Message 518 by candle2
04-09-2024 3:36 PM


Re: Rahvin vs Scripture
candle2 in Message 518 writes:
If you do this, and you don't feel completely stupid, rest assured that you are delusional.
I feel completely comfortable being classified as and animal and as a vertebrate and as a mammal. I am ashamed and embarrassed that the Homo sapiens species includes rapists and mass murderers.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3

This message is a reply to:
 Message 518 by candle2, posted 04-09-2024 3:36 PM candle2 has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4500
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.0


(1)
Message 522 of 536 (917525)
04-09-2024 5:19 PM
Reply to: Message 517 by candle2
04-09-2024 3:26 PM


Re: Rahvin vs Scripture
candle2 in Message 517 writes:
I have shown on this board several times that Jesus was also the God of the OT.
No, you didn't. All you did was make assertions based on fictional accounts.
candle2 in Message 517 writes:
I would be willing to do it again, but only if one is interested.
Please don't, it's nothing but imaginary, fictional, bullshit.
candle2 in Message 517 writes:
Paul plainly tells us this.
Another imaginary fictional character.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3

This message is a reply to:
 Message 517 by candle2, posted 04-09-2024 3:26 PM candle2 has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4500
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.0


(2)
Message 530 of 536 (917718)
04-14-2024 9:53 AM
Reply to: Message 528 by candle2
04-12-2024 6:36 PM


Re: Rahvin vs Scripture
candle2 in Message 528 writes:
None of us can go back in time; all we can do is produce evidence. Most people will interpret the evidence to fit their worldview.
And once evidence is distorted to fit their world view it loses it's value as evidence.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3
If you are going to argue that evolution is false because it resembles your own beliefs then perhaps you should rethink your argument. - - Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 528 by candle2, posted 04-12-2024 6:36 PM candle2 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 531 by candle2, posted 04-30-2024 10:34 AM Tanypteryx has replied
 Message 532 by candle2, posted 04-30-2024 1:45 PM Tanypteryx has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4500
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.0


(1)
Message 534 of 536 (918408)
04-30-2024 6:52 PM
Reply to: Message 531 by candle2
04-30-2024 10:34 AM


Re: Rahvin vs Scripture
candle2 in Message 531 writes:
Tanypteryx, you wrote:

"And once evidence is distorted to fit their world view it loses it's value as evidence."

***Evidence can be distorted by anyone. No group has a monopoly on it.
AND when it is distorted by anyone to fit their world view it loses it's value as evidence.
candle2 in Message 531 writes:
It is an accepted fact that Jesus lived and died. He was crucified on a stauros. The majority of scholars accept this as fact.
It is not an accepted fact, by billions of people, and you have not demonstrated that a majority of scholars accept it, considering that you have shown no verifiable independent evidence that it is not fiction.
What does this have to do with the subject of this thread?
candle2 in Message 531 writes:
The disagreement is in the resurrection of Jesus from the dead.
And the lack of any independent supporting evidence that Jesus existed. And what does this have to do with the subject of this thread?
candle2 in Message 531 writes:
Many scientists refuse to accept this because it goes against nature and physics.
Scientists need supporting evidence, but this still does not address the subject of this thread.
candle2 in Message 531 writes:
Note that it is not science that reject the resurrection; it is scientists who reject.
Actually, there is no independent supporting scientific evidence for the resurrection of any character in your story.
candle2 in Message 531 writes:
Scientists reject the resurrection because it involves the supernatural. They make assumptions.
Nope, you have that wrong, scientists reject it because there is not a shred of supporting evidence. They assume there would be supporting evidence if it's true, but we are still waiting for you to explain how anything you have said relates to the subject of this thread.
candle2 in Message 531 writes:
Everybody knows that no one dies and comes back to life. It is, by natural processes, impossible.
What does this have to do with the subject of this thread?
candle2 in Message 531 writes:
But, by utilizing the same logic, it is also impossible for life to come from non-life, from nothing. This is the law of nature.
Can you name that law of nature?
Please explain what this has to do with the subject of this thread.
candle2 in Message 531 writes:
The Apostles and Disciples believed that Jesus rose from the dead.
You are just making stuff up now. The stories were written 100+ years after the supposed events, so you couldn't possibly know what anyone from that time believed. Please explain what this has to do with the subject of this thread.
candle2 in Message 531 writes:
A man will give his life for a cause that he believes, even if the belief is wrong.
Stll nothing about the subject of this thread.
candle2 in Message 531 writes:
But a man will not give his life for a known lie.
More nothing. This is pointless.
candle2 in Message 531 writes:
The disciples ran when Jesus was arrested and crucified. They were scared to death.

They did not expect their Messiah to come back from the
dead.

Once the Messiah of a cult is dead, the cult falls apart. Jesus' disciples denied knowing Him. They were hiding behind closed doors (for fear of the Jews) when the resurrected Christ appeared to them.

The Jews believed that the Messiah would overthrow the Romans and establish His Kingdom when He appeared.

Jesus did not do that. And worse still He was treated as a common criminal. He was taken, beaten, spat on, and crucified. He died a horrible death.

Every bit of belief that they had in Him was now purged from them. He was not the One.

These same men, who feared for their lives, were suddenly emboldened. They were no longer afraid to die. Only one explanation will suffice. The saw and embraced the living Lord: Jesus.

Men did not believe in the resurrection because of the New Testament. They believed in the New Testament because of the resurrection.

I will write the rest of what I want to say after I walk the dogs at the pound.

I love these dogs, and I hate to see them living in cages. I walk each if them for 15-20 minutes twice a week.

I do this at two animal shelters. I would like for more people to visit their animal shelters. There are many dogs and cats that need a hood home.

Some have been horribly treated.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3
If you are going to argue that evolution is false because it resembles your own beliefs then perhaps you should rethink your argument. - - Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 531 by candle2, posted 04-30-2024 10:34 AM candle2 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 535 by candle2, posted 05-02-2024 12:47 PM Tanypteryx has not replied

  
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