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Author Topic:   The Historical Jesus: Did He Create the Universe?
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9530
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 248 of 536 (916230)
02-27-2024 1:11 PM
Reply to: Message 247 by ICANT
02-27-2024 1:05 PM


Re: I CANTS Retro Thread
ICANT writes:
Wouldn't anything concerning Jesus be on topic?
No.
What would be on topic would be your answer to your own question.
The Historical Jesus: Did he create the universe?
But you seem to want to talk about anything but your topic.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 247 by ICANT, posted 02-27-2024 1:05 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 250 by ICANT, posted 02-27-2024 1:18 PM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9530
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 253 of 536 (916235)
02-27-2024 1:23 PM
Reply to: Message 250 by ICANT
02-27-2024 1:18 PM


Re: I CANTS Retro Thread
ICANT writes:
That answer to that question is an emphatic YES.
Great, we can close the thread now.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 250 by ICANT, posted 02-27-2024 1:18 PM ICANT has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9530
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 274 of 536 (916273)
02-29-2024 9:37 AM
Reply to: Message 272 by ICANT
02-29-2024 9:02 AM


Re: I CANTS Retro Thread
ICANT writes:
You got a better source, like nothing?
Nothing seems to be the most likely answer, but if you need gods not science, there are many other options; Lord Brahma, Protogenoi, Odin, Rod, Ipmil, Aten, Ahura Mazda just off the top of an AI's head.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 272 by ICANT, posted 02-29-2024 9:02 AM ICANT has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9530
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 280 of 536 (916288)
02-29-2024 12:21 PM
Reply to: Message 277 by ICANT
02-29-2024 11:53 AM


Re: I CANTS Retro Thread
ICANT writes:
Either accept the evidence or retute it.
You haven't presented any evidence at all that this historical Jesus who may have been alive as a man 2,000 created the universe.
When are you going to do that?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 277 by ICANT, posted 02-29-2024 11:53 AM ICANT has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9530
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 286 of 536 (916326)
03-01-2024 2:13 AM
Reply to: Message 285 by ICANT
03-01-2024 12:58 AM


I guess you finally realised that you had nothing to say about how a guy called Jesus that might have lived 2,000 years ago could have created a universe that's 13+ billion years old. Well maybe you've learned something.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 285 by ICANT, posted 03-01-2024 12:58 AM ICANT has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9530
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 294 of 536 (916350)
03-01-2024 12:31 PM
Reply to: Message 293 by Phat
03-01-2024 12:17 PM


Re: Priorities
Phat writes:
ICANT was likely hoping that you (the peanut gallery) would at least consider that Jesus was(is) alive and DID exist.
Then he's a fool. Why would we accept that Jesus is alive? Because he says so? We agreed to put aside our skepticism that he ever lived at all so that he could advance his argument that Jesus created the universe. He never even started.
Since this *is* a Faith & Belief thread, how on earth do you expect ICANT to provide objective verifiable evidence that Jesus created all that is, seen and unseen?
It's ICANT's thread - "In this thread I will discuss Jesus roll in the creationn of the universe and His Physical roll on earth."
So forgive us for expecting him to do that. I suspect he worked out pretty quickly that he couldn't do what he said he was going to do - so he spent pages waffling about cosmology that he doesn't understand the first thing about and now he's now run away. Epic.
Is emotion antithetical to Critical Thought?
You really had to ask that? Sheesh...

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 293 by Phat, posted 03-01-2024 12:17 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9530
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 333 of 536 (916478)
03-04-2024 5:07 PM
Reply to: Message 326 by Phat
03-04-2024 3:56 PM


Re: A wee bit of amateur philosophy
Phat:
Not to get too philosophical in a "magic" thread, but RC Sprouls basic philosophical argument resonates with me. Basically he argues that in order for something to exist something always had to exist. If at any time there was nothing, logic dictates that there would now be nothing.
Logic has nothing to do with it.
Logic can't even explain what "nothing" is.
As soon as you get beyond high school physics you're beyond sitting in an armchair and mangling words to try to understand what's going on.
‚Äč

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 326 by Phat, posted 03-04-2024 3:56 PM Phat has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9530
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 340 of 536 (916490)
03-05-2024 4:07 AM
Reply to: Message 336 by Phat
03-05-2024 1:45 AM


Re: A wee bit of amateur philosophy
Phat:
So what makes it illogical?
Logic has nothing to do with cosmology, almost everything about it is counterintuitive. Space is expanding, everything in the universe is moving away from everything else. But the universe is everything so what is it expanding into? Logic your way out of that one.
In the quantum world, things pop into existence "from nothing" (whatever that is) all the time. Almost nothing in the quantum world makes any normal logical sense. You can't think your way through this philosophically or logically.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 336 by Phat, posted 03-05-2024 1:45 AM Phat has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9530
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 496 of 536 (917425)
04-07-2024 9:05 AM
Reply to: Message 495 by candle2
04-07-2024 9:04 AM


Re: Rahvin vs Scripture
We've done Tacitus, when are you going to show that the historical Jesus created the universe?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 495 by candle2, posted 04-07-2024 9:04 AM candle2 has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9530
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 503 of 536 (917435)
04-07-2024 1:50 PM
Reply to: Message 501 by candle2
04-07-2024 1:14 PM


Re: Rahvin vs Scripture
...and we've done Pliny...

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 501 by candle2, posted 04-07-2024 1:14 PM candle2 has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9530
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 506 of 536 (917444)
04-08-2024 10:01 AM
Reply to: Message 505 by candle2
04-08-2024 9:16 AM


Re: Rahvin vs Scripture
Are you ever going to tell us whether the historical Jesus created the universe? Ever?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 505 by candle2, posted 04-08-2024 9:16 AM candle2 has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9530
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 536 of 536 (918434)
05-02-2024 1:06 PM
Reply to: Message 535 by candle2
05-02-2024 12:47 PM


Re: Rahvin vs Scripture
If Jesus existed, he existed 2,000 years ago, is the universe 2,000 years old?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 535 by candle2, posted 05-02-2024 12:47 PM candle2 has not replied

  
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