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Author Topic:   The Historical Jesus: Did He Create the Universe?
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4504
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 291 of 537 (916342)
03-01-2024 11:09 AM
Reply to: Message 285 by ICANT
03-01-2024 12:58 AM


ICANT in Message 285 writes:
If you guys are not going to accept any evidence I present and will not even believe Robert M. Price an atheist who does not believe Jesus ever existed I am just spinning my wheels and wasting good time I could spend with my wife going to the spa, playing golf or just visiting with friends.
Well, we don't know if your evidence should be accepted or not until you present it.
I'm beginning to think you were telling porkies and it will turn out that your whole argument is "The Historic Jesus: Did He Create the Universe?" I foolishly expected more.
We can't reject your evidence until you present it.
Here you are with a free forum with people begging you to present your hypothesis and the evidence that supports it and that explains all our observations and you run away like a shy little girl.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3

This message is a reply to:
 Message 285 by ICANT, posted 03-01-2024 12:58 AM ICANT has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4504
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 296 of 537 (916352)
03-01-2024 12:50 PM
Reply to: Message 293 by Phat
03-01-2024 12:17 PM


Re: Priorities
Phat in Message 293 writes:
ICANT is over 80. He and his wife may be accustomed to surrounding themselves with friends/seekers with open hearts and/or minds rather than dispassionate critics.

|EvC is like an intellectual hazing.
ICANT proposed this topic. We thought he was going to show us something interesting.
We have literally begged him to tell us his hypothesis, but instead he quibbled about what we think.
If his hypothesis is about the creation of the Universe, you would think it would need fairly complex explanations for all the observations that we already posses and that are better than the explanations scientists have already made, wouldn't you?

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3

This message is a reply to:
 Message 293 by Phat, posted 03-01-2024 12:17 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4504
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.5


(1)
Message 324 of 537 (916461)
03-04-2024 1:20 PM
Reply to: Message 265 by ICANT
02-27-2024 11:21 PM


Re: I CANTS Retro Thread
I started working on this response before ICANT wimped out but then got busy with other stuff. I'm posting now because even though he probably will not read it, I will have finished my thoughts.
ICANT in Message 255 writes:
How about we start off with an energy source of pure energy that is unlimited.
ICANT in Message 265 writes:
Tanypteryx in Message 260 writes:
Pure energy, huh?
Yes you guys like to talk about dark energy and dark matter so I thought I would keep it clean.
Tanypteryx in Message 260 writes:
I guess this implies that there are other impure forms of energy?
Science talks about Dark energy and I suppose it makes dark matter.
Interesting, I always thought astrophysicists started using the designation "dark energy" when referring to the observation that the expansion of the Universe seems to be speeding up, apparently refuting the prediction that the expansion is slowing down. They see an affect, but have not discovered what causes it, in other words, "they are in the dark about the cause," so the called it dark energy. They could have called it Chuck but Dark Energy sounds a lot cooler.
I haven't heard about any connection between Dark Energy and Dark Matter other than both have "dark" in their names, because we do not know what causes the affects that astronomers have observed. Dark matter is a doubly good name because we can see its affects on gravity, but whatever causes it is does not emit any electromagnetic radiation (light), so we don't know what it is AND it's dark.
ICANT in Message 265 writes:
Tanypteryx in Message 260 writes:
What form does this pure energy take, is it supercharged electrons, or gamma rays, high power lasers, big springs being stretched or compressed, gasoline that can explode?
None of those fancy things just that the energy had the ability to do work and had the ability to follow orders and construct the most beautiful universe there is.
Wow, so "Obedient Universal Magical Construction Energy!" Wouldn't that be a hoot if IT turned out to be Dark Energy?
ICANT in Message 265 writes:
Tanypteryx in Message 260 writes:
Ok, How did you test to confirm its eternal existence, what kind of tests did you do? And if it's eternal, how do you get it out of the source?
Since Jesus is the source and the controller of that energy it is like the angels and do His will.
ICANT in Message 265 writes:
I could swear I thought I asked that question 15 years ago, about that little bitty thing that took off at light speed 13.8 billion years ago.
I have no idea what you did OR thought 15 years ago or what took of at lightspeed.
Hmmmm, I don't get that part, why does Jesus even need to use tools like energy?
ICANT:
He would only have to think it there. Remember He is all powerful.
ICANT in Message 265 writes:
Science has proved you can't get something from nothing therefore the universe has to be eternal in existence in some form. But not necessarily as we see it today.
I don't follow your reasoning here at all. I don't think science has actually proved that and how is eternity an obvious consequence?
ICANT in Message 265 writes:
ICANT in Message 255 writes:
How long had that light period lasted, eternally in the past and the future.
Tanypteryx in Message 260 writes:
I'm missing your point here. If something is eternal, asking how long it lasted doesn't seem answerable.
ICANT in Message 255 writes:
We have daylight (day) and darkness (night) due to the rotation of the earth in relation to the sun, but existence is not affected by our conditions. Those conditions were created for mankind to function.
ICANT in Message 265 writes:
The light period came to a close to get the earth ready for us to inhabit it. but in existence where God is has never flickered, in all of eternity.
How can you know this?
ICANT in Message 265 writes:
If we did not have night for the earth to cool down and especially all the asphalt and concrete we have we would be in trouble living above ground.
Wow, we're pretty lucky then, we could have all ended up as Moorlocks!
ICANT in Message 265 writes:
If we had 3 suns the same distance from the earth just placed around the earth at thirds of the earth so we had midday all the time how long do you think it would take for the earth to be uninhabitable.
Yeah, there are millions or probably billions of different possible conditions of our solar system that would have kept life like we have here on Earth from ever arising and evolving. We call the idea that conditions allow life on this planet The Anthropic Principal.
ICANT in Message 265 writes:
You ask how old is the universe? Science is talking about 28 billion years now but there is no way to know how big it is.
Nope, I didn't ask how old the Universe is. And the paper that recently proposed a 28 billion year age was rejected for lack of supporting evidence, so no help there.
ICANT in Message 265 writes:
I also ask why did it take it so long since in was under all that pressure of holding the entire universe in such a small place why it didn't start sooner. I still haven't got an answer.
Well, that may be because there is no possible way to answer that question because you have no way of know how long it took or if that question has any meaning in relation the beginning of the Universe.
ICANT in Message 255 writes:
You ask could it have been bigger? The answer would be yes, it could of been just as big as Jesus wanted it to be as when He created the Universe He had all power required to do anything.
Tanypteryx in Message 260 writes:
Good, we don't have to even think about sizes because it was every possible size all at once.
ICANT in Message 265 writes:
Existence was everywhere, which means energy was everywhere . He could have started with any size even that little pea sized universe or smaller.
I have noticed that you have a bunch of different meanings for the term "existence," sometimes you use it as a place, sometimes as a time period, sometimes a a state of being, and sometimes as an action. You seem to have existed in a very confused state of existence during your whole existing in existence.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3

This message is a reply to:
 Message 265 by ICANT, posted 02-27-2024 11:21 PM ICANT has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 325 by AZPaul3, posted 03-04-2024 2:29 PM Tanypteryx has seen this message but not replied
 Message 326 by Phat, posted 03-04-2024 3:56 PM Tanypteryx has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4504
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 328 of 537 (916473)
03-04-2024 4:11 PM
Reply to: Message 326 by Phat
03-04-2024 3:56 PM


Re: A wee bit of amateur philosophy
If Elenore Roosevelt had wings...

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3

This message is a reply to:
 Message 326 by Phat, posted 03-04-2024 3:56 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4504
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 375 of 537 (916795)
03-12-2024 9:50 PM
Reply to: Message 373 by ChemEngineer
03-12-2024 9:12 PM


ChemEngineer in Message 373 writes:
Attorneys are experts in the analysis of evidence.
Usually that is not the case, that's why attorneys rely on expert witnesses to explain their expert analysis of evidence.
I notice that you didn't actually cite any actual evidence. You know, that could be independently verified.
Atheists summarily reject any and all evidence contrary to atheist nihilism.
I don't know what atheists reject, summarily or otherwise. I have never heard of atheist nihilism, so whatever is contrary to it is a mystery.
I notice you posted the same message in another thread. I sure hope you don't turn out to be a spam posting troll.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3

This message is a reply to:
 Message 373 by ChemEngineer, posted 03-12-2024 9:12 PM ChemEngineer has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4504
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.5


(2)
Message 384 of 537 (916821)
03-13-2024 2:15 PM
Reply to: Message 381 by Admin
03-13-2024 1:39 PM


Re: Proposal to Close Thread
ICANT already conceded that it is all BS, so go for it.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3

This message is a reply to:
 Message 381 by Admin, posted 03-13-2024 1:39 PM Admin has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4504
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.5


(4)
Message 395 of 537 (916907)
03-16-2024 2:15 AM
Reply to: Message 393 by Phat
03-15-2024 12:31 PM


Re: The Historical Jesus: Did He Create the Universe?
Phat in Message 393 writes:
God, if God exists will use many attempts to reach you. (Yes, it's my belief)
Funny, I was just thinking about this as I read Rahvin's post below Message 394.
When I realized I didn't believe in God anymore, I remember thinking, "if it exists and cares if I believe, it will say so." And then I carried on with my life studying thing that interest me.
This is supposed to be an entity capable of creating a planet and hearing all my thoughts, but it cannot communicate other than by imitating natural phenomena (give me a sign), really?
Oh look, that cloud's giving me the finger, must be a sign from God. Nothing is too silly to convince you believers.
If it wants acknowledgement from me it will have to try harder. It will take hard, irrefutable evidence, not faith in vague signs.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3

This message is a reply to:
 Message 393 by Phat, posted 03-15-2024 12:31 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 396 by Percy, posted 03-16-2024 8:31 AM Tanypteryx has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4504
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.5


(1)
Message 409 of 537 (916937)
03-17-2024 11:48 AM
Reply to: Message 408 by candle2
03-17-2024 11:25 AM


Re: Rahvin vs Scripture
Also, God killed all but eight people via a worldwide flood. He killed the inhabitants of Sodom and its sister cities. He has the authority to judge.
It's all total fiction, but Fuck your God anyway!

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3

This message is a reply to:
 Message 408 by candle2, posted 03-17-2024 11:25 AM candle2 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 413 by candle2, posted 03-17-2024 4:08 PM Tanypteryx has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4504
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.5


(2)
Message 424 of 537 (916955)
03-17-2024 10:32 PM
Reply to: Message 413 by candle2
03-17-2024 4:08 PM


Re: Rahvin vs Scripture
candle2 in Message 413 writes:
Your god is Satan, and you love him.
Fuck satan too!
All gods are fiction, imaginary, invisible, powerless figments of your imagination.
It's pathetic that your fear of god is the only reason you are a halfway decent human being!
Anything is better than having to spend eternity with the likes of you!
then they will trimble like scared little girls.
I have always seen girls as far braver than boys.
ABE: And by the way, you don't get to assign one of your fictional gods to me, so go fuck yourself! Satan is all yours, Asshole!

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3

This message is a reply to:
 Message 413 by candle2, posted 03-17-2024 4:08 PM candle2 has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4504
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.5


(1)
Message 438 of 537 (916978)
03-18-2024 3:21 PM
Reply to: Message 437 by AZPaul3
03-18-2024 2:54 PM


Re: Rahvin vs Scripture
AZPaul3 in Message 437 writes:
Even has you in it candle2. Now THAT is a family photo.
He was really, really pissed off when he found out that turds are made out of atoms, just like he is.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3

This message is a reply to:
 Message 437 by AZPaul3, posted 03-18-2024 2:54 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4504
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.5


(2)
Message 444 of 537 (917034)
03-19-2024 3:37 PM
Reply to: Message 443 by AZPaul3
03-19-2024 3:15 PM


Re: Rahvin vs Scripture
AZPaul3 in Message 443 writes:
You say Tany will be forced into the lake of fire along with your Satan.
Come on, you know that's a relief, considering the alternative is eternity with million and millions of assholes like candle2!

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3

This message is a reply to:
 Message 443 by AZPaul3, posted 03-19-2024 3:15 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 445 by AZPaul3, posted 03-19-2024 4:52 PM Tanypteryx has seen this message but not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4504
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.5


(3)
Message 449 of 537 (917043)
03-19-2024 7:00 PM
Reply to: Message 447 by candle2
03-19-2024 6:06 PM


Re: Rahvin vs Scripture
candle2 in Message 447 writes:
***Tany has a choice. He never asked to be born, but in order for him to receive eternal life he must decide that he wants it with all his heart.
Saying someone didn't ask to be born is like saying the sky is high. AND I am quite clearly NOT ASKING FOR ETERNAL LIFE.
Do not blame me
No one is blaming you for anything other than your own words.
And it is not my fault if chooses to rebel against God.
And it's not our fault if you choose to rebel against Pink Unicorns.
But, answer this if you can: why would God give eternal life to someone who despises Him? To someone who actually fights against Him?
See, this is YOUR misunderstanding of how I feel. I despise YOU, not your fictitious god. My fight is with your religion not your invisible, imaginary friend.
Do people actually feel this entitled? You seem to.
We are absolutely entitled to despise you and ignore your imaginary, invisible, powerless god, AND to tell you that your eternal afterlife is also fictional and imaginary.
If Tany suffers eternal death, it is because of his actions, and his actions alone.
Well, it's mostly because that's the way the Universe actually works. I fully expect eternal death and I'm satisfied with the life I have had. It has been far better than most of humanity endured. I have descendants (and I really fear the planet we are leaving them) and many friendships and I'm grateful to many people who have made my life better, and I have published a few things that might last as long as our civilization lasts. I value my life a lot, but I value the non-human life (biology) on this planet more. I don't long for a different life, I will take this life for as long as I have it.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3

This message is a reply to:
 Message 447 by candle2, posted 03-19-2024 6:06 PM candle2 has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4504
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 457 of 537 (917064)
03-20-2024 2:20 PM
Reply to: Message 456 by candle2
03-20-2024 2:07 PM


Re: Rahvin vs Scripture
candle2 in Message 456 writes:
Anyone who thinks that a tree dated at 30,000 years old is incased in a mountain over 50,000,000 years old is definitely perverted in their thinking.
No one thinks this. This is gibberish.
Nothing is what rocks dream about.
Rocks don't dream.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3

This message is a reply to:
 Message 456 by candle2, posted 03-20-2024 2:07 PM candle2 has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4504
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.5


(1)
Message 497 of 537 (917426)
04-07-2024 9:09 AM
Reply to: Message 495 by candle2
04-07-2024 9:04 AM


Re: Rahvin vs Scripture
candle2 in Message 495 writes:
Panties Pilate.
Panties? Really, a Roman named Panties? He invented underwear, right?

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3

This message is a reply to:
 Message 495 by candle2, posted 04-07-2024 9:04 AM candle2 has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4504
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 500 of 537 (917431)
04-07-2024 12:12 PM
Reply to: Message 499 by Theodoric
04-07-2024 10:47 AM


Re: Rahvin vs Scripture
I heard he was a swimmer.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3

This message is a reply to:
 Message 499 by Theodoric, posted 04-07-2024 10:47 AM Theodoric has not replied

  
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