The Historical Jesus: Did He Create the Universe?

Well, thanks for responding.

Hi Taq, You got a better source, like nothing?God Bless,

Why not multidimensional leprechauns? Or maybe the universe was created last Thursday. Not Last Tuesday, those are damn heretics.

Nothing seems to be the most likely answer, but if you need gods not science, there are many other options; Lord Brahma, Protogenoi, Odin, Rod, Ipmil, Aten, Ahura Mazda just off the top of an AI's head.

Do you have evidence to back your claims?"I don't know" seems like the best answer until some evidence is presented.

Nothing would do just nicely. We see in the lab where virtual pairs literally pop into and out of existence readily.But, better (my opinion), is the hypothesis that when the inflaton field quiesced, the forces separated and that symmetry breaking flashed the universe full of energy. E=mc². The universe flashed into the super-dense super-hot quark/gluon plasma the CMB tells us was there. The real big bang.There are other hypothesizes but this is my favorite.Yes, We do have a better source than some human Jesus living on earth billions of years after the events.

You are welcome.Now lets see if we can make a little progress.In Message 180 I posted this:
Historical Jesus - Wikipedia

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The term "historical Jesus" refers to the life and teachings of Jesus as interpreted through critical historical methods, in contrast to what are traditionally religious interpretations.[1][2] It also considers the historical and cultural contexts in which Jesus lived.[3][4][5][6] Virtually all scholars of antiquity accept that Jesus was a historical figure, and the idea that Jesus was a mythical figure has been consistently rejected by the scholarly consensus as a fringe theory.[7][8][9][10][11] Scholars differ about the beliefs and teachings of Jesus as well as the accuracy of the biblical accounts, with only two events being supported by nearly universal scholarly consensus: Jesus was baptized and Jesus was crucified.

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And this:

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Everybody is saying lets go.
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OK either accept this as Historical evidence or refute it.

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Tangle stated: Message 83 Percy responded:
to my first post in Message 87

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I gave my assent in Message 84, granting that for the sake of discussion it was fine with me to take as a given that Jesus was real. Please proceed. It might help if you responded to some of the messages you left hanging.

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Which was the message of Tangle that Percy was referring too.In Message 91 AZPaul3

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We respect a consensus of scientists ... not a consensus of christian apologists.

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I don't know any scientist that are Historians.This is the third time I have posted this quote from#7

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Stephen Law was a school dropout who became a postman in Cambridge, then took a degree in philosophy at Oxford, becoming a Junior Research Fellow at the Queen's College. He now teaches philosophy at Heythrop College, University of London. He has published a number of books including THE PHILOSOPHY FILES and THE PHILOSOPHY GYM..

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# 8

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In a 2011 review of the state of modern scholarship, Bart Ehrman (a secular agnostic) wrote: "He certainly existed, as virtually every competent scholar of antiquity, Christian or non-Christian, agrees, based on certain and clear evidence." B. Ehrman, 2011 Forged: writing in the name of God ISBN 978-0-06-207863-6. pp. 256–257

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#9

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Robert M. Price (an atheist who denies the existence of Jesus) agrees that this perspective runs against the views of the majority of scholars: Robert M. Price "Jesus at the Vanishing Point" in The Historical Jesus: Five Views edited by James K. Beilby & Paul Rhodes Eddy, 2009 InterVarsity, ISBN 028106329X p. 61

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# 10

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Michael Grant (a classicist) states that "In recent years, 'no serious scholar has ventured to postulate the non-historicity of Jesus' or at any rate very few, and they have not succeeded in disposing of the much stronger, indeed very abundant, evidence to the contrary." in Jesus: An Historian's Review of the Gospels by Michael Grant (2004) ISBN 1898799881 p. 200

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# 11

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Burridge & Gould 2004, p. 34. "There are those who argue that Jesus is a figment of the Church’s imagination, that there never was a Jesus at all. I have to say that I do not know any respectable critical scholar who says that anymore."

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# 12

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Jesus Remembered by James D. G. Dunn 2003 ISBN 0-8028-3931-2 p. 339 states of baptism and crucifixion that these "two facts in the life of Jesus command almost universal assent".

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There are a total of 238 listed all you have to do is go read about them.To my Message 180 I got 2 replies.
1. Message 81 Tanypteryx said:

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I don't give a rat's ass about that. You play endless empty pointless word games.

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2. Message 184 Theodoric said:

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Irrelevant

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I put this one last as I would like to say the evidence I presented is very relevant to the subject we are going to be discussing.That is if we can come to a decision if facts are going to count.
I know that everybody knows what they believe and no one wants facts to get in the way of what they believe.But facts are all that matters.Either accept the evidence or retute it.God Bless,

Hi Az, You can't recreate the lab that existed at T-0.Nothing existed there. In the lab you are talking about there is energy everywhere.What part of non existence do you not understand?God Bless,

So far, I haven't seen any verifiable evidence to support your assertions. Your whole argument is simply "god of the gaps."

You haven't presented any evidence at all that this historical Jesus who may have been alive as a man 2,000 created the universe.When are you going to do that?

ICANT's daily post limit has been set to 5.

We have already agreed that for the purposes of this thread we will grant that Jesus was a historical person.Can we now move on to the topic of the thread? Projection much? You are the one who continually refuses to accept facts that point to the Big Bang. You then promote your belief that Jesus created the Universe without any facts to back them.
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Maybe we could if we knew what happened but we can't say ... and neither can you.After T^-33 we have a very good idea of what happened. But, no one knows anything about T=0. Ancient old ideas. Of course there was something there, and before. But, we can barely comprehend the concepts let alone give details. No one knows what may or may not have existed, or didn't exist, at or prior to T=0. You can not say something wasn't when you have no way of knowing. The part that is in your mind that no one else could understand.

... and you go on to list credits to some 200+ christian apologists. Ok.Still no respect for their consensus. Refuted.Next.[abe]I reject your evidence but will allow that a human named Jesus was the protagonist in your mythology.Please explain how this earth-bound Jesus of 2000 years ago manifest all the energy of the universe? What evidence do you provide for this conjecture?

To Whom it may concern,In Message 277 I included the words of an atheist.#9

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Robert M. Price (an atheist who denies the existence of Jesus) agrees that this perspective runs against the views of the majority of scholars: Robert M. Price "Jesus at the Vanishing Point" in The Historical Jesus: Five Views edited by James K. Beilby & Paul Rhodes Eddy, 2009 InterVarsity, ISBN 028106329X p. 61

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An atheist who denies the existence of Jesus says he is in the minority of scholarsSo the Majority believe He did exist but the majority does not believe all the things the Bible says about Him.Tangle just wants to agree that Jesus exists just for the sake of an argument.
Percy agreed that was fine with him.AZPaul3 says I reject your evidence but will allow that a human named Jesus was the protagonist in your mythology.Tantpteryx I don't give a rat's ass about that.Taq says We have already agreed that for the purposes of this thread we will grant that Jesus was a historical person.
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Can we now move on to the topic of the thread?If you guys are not going to accept any evidence I present and will not even believe Robert M. Price an atheist who does not believe Jesus ever existed I am just spinning my wheels and wasting good time I could spend with my wife going to the spa, playing golf or just visiting with friends.So if anybody ever decides they want to exchange views drop me an email my address is in my profile.Other than that so long until I tell you I tried to tell you...Gentlemen,