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Author Topic:   Who Owns the Standard Definition of Evolution
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4597
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006


Message 119 of 703 (915038)
02-09-2024 3:55 PM
Reply to: Message 118 by sensei
02-09-2024 3:46 PM


Reality overwhelms religious mythology with real data, that's why we call it reality.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3

This message is a reply to:
 Message 118 by sensei, posted 02-09-2024 3:46 PM sensei has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 125 by sensei, posted 02-09-2024 5:05 PM Tanypteryx has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4597
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006


Message 132 of 703 (915051)
02-09-2024 5:49 PM
Reply to: Message 125 by sensei
02-09-2024 5:05 PM


sensei in Message 125 writes:
Tanypteryx:
Reality overwhelms religious mythology with real data, that's why we call it reality.
Your made up reality is not real though. You don't have a single fact to prove your theory.
Gosh, don't you think it's silly to keep pushing this lie?
You must have been shown evidence supporting the Theory of Evolution a hundred times since you've been here.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3

This message is a reply to:
 Message 125 by sensei, posted 02-09-2024 5:05 PM sensei has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 133 by sensei, posted 02-09-2024 6:09 PM Tanypteryx has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4597
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006


Message 137 of 703 (915056)
02-09-2024 6:29 PM
Reply to: Message 133 by sensei
02-09-2024 6:09 PM


sensei in Message 133 writes:
Then you should be able to easily find one example where your evidence proves common ancestry of all animals
Nope, but I can show you evidence that supports a common ancestor. Preponderance of supporting evidence is what science uses, instead of proof.
All life falls into nested hierarchies based on morphology, but also based on genetics, and ERV positions in the genomes, and proteins produced for specific functions. The patterns in these nested hierarchies (cladograms) show clear relationships that could happen through inheritance.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3

This message is a reply to:
 Message 133 by sensei, posted 02-09-2024 6:09 PM sensei has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 142 by sensei, posted 02-09-2024 6:39 PM Tanypteryx has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4597
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006


Message 154 of 703 (915073)
02-09-2024 7:07 PM
Reply to: Message 142 by sensei
02-09-2024 6:39 PM


sensei in Message 142 writes:
Cute argument, but very, very weak and far from being close to being any proof.
And yet, you offer no evidence to support your assertion, and once again, supporting evidence is what we use in science.
Nowhere is there a rule that says that a pattern is proof of relationship.
Yeah, we don't need a rule when the relationships are so obvious and and especially when we get the same patterns of relationship from completely different observations.
I note that you have not offered any counter evidence.
That is made up by supporters of your theory and repeated over and over again.
Actually, it is observed by scientists and their findings are reported in scientific publications and are subject to review by their peers.
Not for real science and for real and respectable researchers.
Feel free to cite some "real science from your real and respected researchers."
sensei in Message 142 writes:
So out of all the hundreds of times you supposedly have shown me proof, this is the best you can come up with? How weak!
Tanypteryx in Message 132 writes:
You must have been shown evidence supporting the Theory of Evolution a hundred times since you've been here.
I note that you have not offered any evidence to refute my statement in Message 137
Tanypteryx in Message 137 writes:
All life falls into nested hierarchies based on morphology, but also based on genetics, and ERV positions in the genomes, and proteins produced for specific functions. The patterns in these nested hierarchies (cladograms) show clear relationships that could happen through inheritance.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3

This message is a reply to:
 Message 142 by sensei, posted 02-09-2024 6:39 PM sensei has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4597
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006


Message 173 of 703 (915093)
02-09-2024 7:55 PM
Reply to: Message 168 by sensei
02-09-2024 7:43 PM


Re: Mutations Confirm Common Descent
sensei in Message 168 writes:
What is your point? Animals can have fur or feathers or something else. I can also name differences. But what is the point?
Yep, and no where do you see mammals with feathers. And no where do you see Ford cars with Chevy engines. An no automobiles fit into nested hierarchies.
You are really good at totally missing the point.
Your point is false and not supported by the evidence.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3

This message is a reply to:
 Message 168 by sensei, posted 02-09-2024 7:43 PM sensei has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4597
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006


Message 179 of 703 (915099)
02-09-2024 8:06 PM
Reply to: Message 175 by sensei
02-09-2024 8:00 PM


It's a simple question.
The chances of you correctly predicting 10 consecutive flips of the coin is 2^10, or 1 in 1024. If this is incorrect, show us you can do the math.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3

This message is a reply to:
 Message 175 by sensei, posted 02-09-2024 8:00 PM sensei has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 185 by sensei, posted 02-09-2024 9:37 PM Tanypteryx has replied
 Message 234 by Percy, posted 02-10-2024 2:31 PM Tanypteryx has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4597
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006


(1)
Message 187 of 703 (915108)
02-09-2024 9:41 PM
Reply to: Message 185 by sensei
02-09-2024 9:37 PM


Yet you still can't do the math, can you? And apparently you can't read either.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3

This message is a reply to:
 Message 185 by sensei, posted 02-09-2024 9:37 PM sensei has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 189 by sensei, posted 02-09-2024 9:48 PM Tanypteryx has not replied
 Message 190 by sensei, posted 02-09-2024 9:56 PM Tanypteryx has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4597
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006


Message 191 of 703 (915112)
02-09-2024 10:22 PM
Reply to: Message 190 by sensei
02-09-2024 9:56 PM


10 people fell down the stairs. The probability of accurately predicting the gender of all 10 victims is 1 in 1024. The probability of predicting the gender of one victim is 1 in 2.
sensei in Message 190 writes:
This is the level of stupid that I have to deal with day in day out on this board.
There's a simple solution to that.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3

This message is a reply to:
 Message 190 by sensei, posted 02-09-2024 9:56 PM sensei has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4597
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006


(1)
Message 230 of 703 (915153)
02-10-2024 2:06 PM
Reply to: Message 228 by sensei
02-10-2024 1:52 PM


And still no one knows what the fuck your point is, except everyone else is stupid.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3

This message is a reply to:
 Message 228 by sensei, posted 02-10-2024 1:52 PM sensei has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4597
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006


(1)
Message 235 of 703 (915158)
02-10-2024 3:00 PM
Reply to: Message 234 by Percy
02-10-2024 2:31 PM


My guess is that he's analogizing to a coin which is not "true", but he hasn't confirmed that yet.​
By "not true" I assume you mean a coin that has been distorted in a way that makes one side face up more than the other side when it's flipped. Does that actually happen? Are there actually coins like that, that are undetectable if you hold them in your hand?
What would a distorted coin flip process tell us anything about reproduction? What possible point is he trying to demonstrate?
As an aside, I have always thought coin tosses were an error prone way of demonstrating probabilities. A person flipping the coin cannot help but apply different forces to the coin with each flip, and it seems to me that would really widen the error bars on predictions.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3

This message is a reply to:
 Message 234 by Percy, posted 02-10-2024 2:31 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 250 by dwise1, posted 02-10-2024 7:14 PM Tanypteryx has not replied
 Message 257 by Percy, posted 02-10-2024 7:58 PM Tanypteryx has seen this message but not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4597
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006


(1)
Message 242 of 703 (915171)
02-10-2024 6:06 PM
Reply to: Message 240 by K.Rose
02-10-2024 5:42 PM


K.Rose in Message 240 writes:
however, all genetic evidence points to a Creator.
However, you present NO supporting evidence.
Please not that I would not conspire to prevent biologists from pursuing the common ancestry conclusion, nor would I forcibly prevent them from pursuing this, nor intimidate them into abandoning the pursuit, nor force-feed them my views.
Please note, you could not accomplish any of that, even if you wanted to.
Also, the fact that you have drawn a conclusion from a set of evidence does not make that conclusion fact.
Without a shred of supporting evidence, everything you wrote can be dismissed as pure BS.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3

This message is a reply to:
 Message 240 by K.Rose, posted 02-10-2024 5:42 PM K.Rose has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 253 by K.Rose, posted 02-10-2024 7:32 PM Tanypteryx has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4597
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006


(1)
Message 244 of 703 (915173)
02-10-2024 6:17 PM
Reply to: Message 241 by K.Rose
02-10-2024 5:56 PM


K.Rose in Message 241 writes:
The concept of common ancestry - maybe this is better described as something else, perhaps? - is the part of evolutionary biology that put its supporters at such stark, sometimes virulent odds with the Creationists.
No, what puts evolutionary biologists at odds with creationists is when creationists attempt to force their creationist bullshit into science classrooms.
And why would we want to describe common ancestry as something else when common ancestry is the perfect description of common ancestry that everyone already understands.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3

This message is a reply to:
 Message 241 by K.Rose, posted 02-10-2024 5:56 PM K.Rose has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4597
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006


Message 265 of 703 (915194)
02-10-2024 11:03 PM
Reply to: Message 264 by AZPaul3
02-10-2024 10:33 PM


You nailed every single point! What are the odds of that?

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3

This message is a reply to:
 Message 264 by AZPaul3, posted 02-10-2024 10:33 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 266 by AZPaul3, posted 02-10-2024 11:18 PM Tanypteryx has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4597
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006


Message 267 of 703 (915196)
02-10-2024 11:26 PM
Reply to: Message 266 by AZPaul3
02-10-2024 11:18 PM


Nailed it again!

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3

This message is a reply to:
 Message 266 by AZPaul3, posted 02-10-2024 11:18 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 268 by AZPaul3, posted 02-10-2024 11:30 PM Tanypteryx has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4597
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006


(2)
Message 340 of 703 (915285)
02-12-2024 12:18 PM
Reply to: Message 335 by Percy
02-12-2024 10:16 AM


Percy in Message 335 writes:
Though the term is often used in an informal sense, there really isn't any such thing as scientific proof. Everything in science is tentative. All that can be done is increase the level of confidence that something is likely true. At some point a consensus develops around a set of ideas and explanations and a theory is born, one that is still tentative and remains open to change in light of new evidence or insights.
He talks funny too...lifeforms, when everyone else including all the biologists I have known and worked with all use "species" and "populations" as the base taxonomic level. All this "give birth to a wholly different lifeform" nonsense is just shorthand for dogs giving birth to porkypines or some other wholly different lifeform.
And it's like he expects all the science performed over the past 40 years has to be re-validated, in three sentences, covering all observations and data collected, oh and with certainty and error bars, as a preface to any specific supporting evidence that we reference.
These guys are really hard to communicate with. This is a strange pathology when you examine it, they demand that we share our knowledge with them, when we do they ignore it and demand we share what we know with them again...
Next we are going to have to explain over and over that "macroevolution is not some separate process" in addition to descent with modification and natural selection. When speciation occurs the resulting offspring species are not "wholly different life forms", instead they are almost identical, with only a few differences that become barriers to reproduction. Once interbreeding between the populations dwindles or ceases altogether, mutations accumulate in each separate population leading to increasing morphological differences. Nowhere in the speciation process does some mysterious, undefined, macroevolutionary process occur, instead it is just the continuing descent with modification and natural selection.
K. Rose seems to be completely unaware of just how much scrutiny scientists give to every aspect of this process of biological evolution. They record and report their observations primarily because of inborn curiosity, but also in the hopes of making a great discovery that stands out among the millions of more mundane observations. The probability that a major unknown process, "macroevolution," would remain undetected, given the level of scrutiny over the past 150+ years, is incredibly low.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3

This message is a reply to:
 Message 335 by Percy, posted 02-12-2024 10:16 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 343 by ICANT, posted 02-12-2024 1:23 PM Tanypteryx has replied
 Message 346 by Percy, posted 02-12-2024 2:48 PM Tanypteryx has seen this message but not replied

  
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