Letters to a Christian Nation - Free Download

I am reading the book. Oddly, it fits you to a tee, Tangle. In Harris's words, I see many of the same arguments that you have used in your rejection of faith. Harris is an apologist for the atheists. I believe that the Bible contains an inspired character in Jesus Christ. I do not believe that the Bible is word for word inspirational. It tells a story of ancient humans and of how one group of them came to believe in monotheism. Through the lens of the many authors, the belief in One God and the struggle to understand what He meant to them encapsulates the literature. God (if God exists) speaks to people where they are at culturally and at that present moment in recorded history. At best, one would imagine the text as indicative of the authors understanding of God at that moment. God certainly needs no book to talk to us. As for divinity, accepting Christ is (for us anyway) accepting the fulfilled character of God. As a Christian, I do not consider myself Christian Right. Harris does have a thoughtful argument. In a society with freedom of speech, extremists of all stripes are allowed to express themselves. The problem is when their mode of expression causes harm to others in the name of their god. As I read on, I see a lot of points that have been raised by the peanut gallery before...not just Tangle, but AZPaul3, Theodoric, jar, and our dearly departed ringo.
Oh! I see candle2 also. To wit: I never understood Biblical Creationists, but I consider myself a Cosmological Creationist in that I believe that God initiated Creation.
Harris has some choice words about creationists.

I disagree. I am a creationist only in that I believe that God initiated the process. In my mind, *how* He did it is largely irrelevant. The Bible never specifically mentions 6000 years. The only analogy in scripture that I have noted is the idea that a thousand years is as a day to the Lord. Thus, (and it could be argued) the process of creation took 7000 years. Much of that would be quite easy and quick for an omnipotent Being...much like the Big Bang event transforming a singularity into a vast Universe is also a quick process. Other aspects of creation do take longer. It takes awhile for a planet to develop a liveable environment...(varying among species) It also (and more importantly) takes awhile for homo sapians to develop language, empathy, awareness, and cognitive skills.
One can argue that this is all simply a process within the definition of evolution and that no Creator need be involved. I do not see it that way. I *will* admit that humans tend to anthropomorphize gods, Gods and GOD. We also have a propensity to essentially deify our own individual and collective wisdom. While it is "easy" to dismiss God as a concept and belief, it is harder to create a better future for ourselves. I believe that humans need to try and do our best. We cannot nor should not await a rescue, though it is no sin to pray for one, especially if you are a Christian living in Gaza or Ukraine. Realists see no God and in many cases do not want One anyway. My only comment in this case is that if one prays for a rescue, don't count on either the United Nations or the United States to be your rescuer anytime soon. Progressives are free to continue voting in the best possible candidates, but I fear that none will be good enough.

Agreed. If Christianity specifically were true, humanity itself would be parsing a collective delusion. Personally, I only see grim surprises for those who continually and purposefully resist the idea. By that I do not mean the idea of the supernatural literal ism. I specifically mean the acceptance or rejection of Jesus Christ Himself. As a believer who changed his world view one day, I do not see Jesus merely at the level of Allah, or Buddha, or even a flip-pin spaghetti monster. Perhaps many of you do. Or maybe we all will fail. We will fail to do what has to be done to make our society worthy of a future. We will fail at global generosity. We will fail to make a lasting peace among ourselves. We will fail to stop the pressure from the fact that is climate change and global warming. We will fail to be a species deserving of a future, if not an eternal one.Jesus did not come to mess up peoples right to be human. He offers a choice rather than an ultimatum. Answer me this, though. If there were an ultimatum, would you complain about the unfairness of it or would you accept the authority of reality?

I keep forgetting that I am addressing non-believers and that Harris is himself one of you. In my belief, all religions are not the same in that they are not all different paths to different gods. There are likely some members of every faith who have the same God. The way I was taught, the only way is through Jesus Christ. He finds us...we don't find Him. For this reason, it's all about relationships and acceptance. There will be some Christians with a solid relationship with Jesus. There will be some Muslims with a solid relationship with Jesus. There will be some Jews (Messianic Jews) with a solid relationship and acceptance of Jesus. Eventually, there will be some atheists who accept Jesus, perhaps even unconsciously. Jar used to always say that Christianity is about what we do. My only comment is that it is very unnatural to do what is required for no other reason than the acts of service themselves. Im still trying to trust my inner conscience more than I do my fearful brain. I see boogie men behind every cloud.
I am also selfish by nature. It would be very hard for me to let go of everything.My point is that Harris assumes no god from the outset and then points out the similarity of all religions. I of course reject this world view.

Tangle has used this argument against me (or to teach me) before. I would wager that many of you agree with Sam Harris's view on "all religions". I keep my beliefs despite honest criticism from the likes of Harris and others. Perhaps one way that I differ from you is that my belief is very important to me.
Jesus is very important to me. To many of you, He is but a character in a storybook written by humans.

I should be telling you guys why I hold the beliefs that I do. You are not capable of understanding my beliefs as well as I do. Quite frankly, I find it hard to trust advice from a man such as Sam Harris who is not a believer. He simply does not understand God. One does not understand God through secular psychology.

His reasoning is sound. Perhaps it is my reasoning and rationale is unsound, for I believe that we are all in a spiritual war and that rationality and reason itself have been hijacked. People are increasingly irrational and unreasonable.My only solution is to turn off the media, engage in perhaps a half day or one day water fast, and allow my own rationality and reason to return to me.Does anyone here realize how much observing daily shoplifting affects me? In The NewsWhen I see stuff like that, I am afraid that the world is turning more selfish and evil.

I can't believe that you liberals are not as outraged as I am at the entitlement mentality of drug-addicted thieves who even laugh in our faces as they steal before our very eyes. All you tell me is that I am not behaving as Jesus would towards them. Believe me it's hard.I was taught never to steal. I was taught to respect the status quo rather than trying to overthrow it!I feel an urge to knock them over the head with a stick and have them arrested so that they will understand the limits of their entitlement. (that's my flesh talking. I would never do such a thing. I'm just telling you what emotions boil up within me)I can't understand why you people empathize with them and not with the workers who can't stop the stealing. You look at it as a mere economic entry on the company books and none of our business. Don't you understand that people are behaving irrationally? ALL OVER THE WORLD! I feel as if they are indirectly stealing from ME!

Its not that the cost of the staff would be greater than the losses. It is the potential tangle of lawsuits from people who want to defund the police, get something from the 'rich and powerful" rather than work like poor people did in the 1930s, and essentially become equal without putting in the hard work.Yes, I know. Jesus would help them and I often do also. For everyone I help, ten more steal from my store. (Oh that's right. It isn't my store! I almost forgot! )And if I am smart enough to realize it is not my store, why do the thieves think it is their store and their stuff???!!! Dont any one of you see the societal breakdown as the poor and marginalized pressure the business owners and global capitalists? What do you wanna be? Marxists? [/rant]

This caught my eye this morning: So I went to several internet sources to look into your claim. I DID find that libertarians value freedom over equality and this is one of the things I largely agree with. Nowhere in the article did I see any hint of libertarianism being a form of theft from society. (That is unless one believes that society owes equality unto itself at ALL costs.) I suppose they could argue that shoplifting is in fact their job and livelihood. And you could point out that they are stealing from the wealthy owners of the equity firm that owns my store! But this all sounds too Marxist for me! The sale of that stuff pays my wage. If someone steals from that pot, I potentially get paid less...in the form of hours worked or in the event that the store would have to close. Should people be able to demand equality at the expense of another mans freedom?​

I followed your link to Reddit but became lost in the arguments favoring Palestine over Israel. Palestine is easily winning the ideological propaganda war. I can't really argue in defense of Israel at this time. As for Sam Harris, I'm not really impressed after listening to parts of his podcast. He is no wiser than any of us.

Ladies and Gentlemen, allow me to introduce the leader of the infamous EvC Peanut Gallery!The peanut gallery is rarely unanimous. Theodoric thinks Harris to be a grifter. Tangle, on the other hand sees Harris much as Percy does...saying it in better ways than "we" can.Why not just label Harris a Theophobe? Many Liberals do. They think that their intellectual ideals are superior to traditional religious ideals.This secular humanist ideology is, in my opinion, a greater threat to global stability than religion. If it comes to fruition, the resulting leaders will only muck up the world by believing that human consensus cannot fail us. And Equality will triumph over Freedom.

Phat:

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This secular humanist ideology is, in my opinion, a greater threat to global stability than religion. If it comes to fruition, the resulting leaders will only muck up the world by believing that human consensus cannot fail us.

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Percy:

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This sounds like a justification for authoritarian intervention in democracies.

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Democracies have a problem with authoritarianism. They think themselves morality police.This goes for both Israel and the United States. We need to clean up our own backyard first.