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Author Topic:   Letters to a Christian Nation - Free Download
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9580
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 6.8


(3)
Message 1 of 51 (913558)
11-13-2023 1:30 PM


I read this booklet - which is a response to the phlegm he got from Christians after the release of his book "The End of Faith"- years ago but just tipped over it again. It's a free download here:
Letter to a Christian Nation - PDF Free Download
"You believe that the Bible is the word of God, that Jesus is the Son of God, and that only those who place their faith in Jesus will find salvation after death. As a Christian, you believe these propositions not because they make you feel good, but because you think they are true.
Before I point out some of the problems with these beliefs, I would like to acknowledge that there are many points on which you and I agree. We agree, for instance, that if one of us is right, the other is wrong. The Bible is either the word of God, or it isn't. Either Jesus offers
humanity the one, true path to salvation (John 14:6), or he does not. We agree that to be a true Christian is to believe that all other faiths are mistaken, and profoundly so. If Christianity is correct, and I persist in my unbelief, I should expect to suffer the torments of hell. Worse still, I have persuaded others, and many close to me, to reject the very idea of God.
They too will languish in "eternal fire" (Matthew 25:41). If the basic doctrine of Christianity is correct, I have misused my life in the worst conceivable way. I admit this without a single caveat. The fact that my continuous and public rejection of Christianity does not worry me in
the least should suggest to you just how inadequate I think your reasons for being a Christian are.
Of course, there are Christians who do not agree with either of us. There are Christians who consider other faiths to be equally valid paths to salvation. There are Christians who have no fear of hell and who do not believe in the physical resurrection of Jesus. These Christians
often describe themselves as "religious liberals" or "religious moderates." From their point of view, you and I have both misunderstood what it means to be a person of faith. There is, we are assured, a vast and beautiful terrain between atheism and religious fundamentalism that generations of thoughtful Christians have quietly explored. According to liberals and moderates, faith is about mystery, and meaning, and community, and love. People make religion out of the full fabric of their lives, not out of mere beliefs."

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Percy, posted 11-13-2023 4:19 PM Tangle has not replied
 Message 3 by Phat, posted 11-14-2023 8:17 PM Tangle has replied
 Message 4 by Phat, posted 11-14-2023 8:22 PM Tangle has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9580
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 6.8


Message 7 of 51 (913575)
11-15-2023 4:08 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Phat
11-14-2023 8:17 PM


Re: Sam Harris: Letters to a Christian Nation
Well, you get points for starting the book. I hope you can finish it.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Phat, posted 11-14-2023 8:17 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by Phat, posted 11-21-2023 6:00 PM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9580
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 6.8


Message 8 of 51 (913580)
11-16-2023 3:13 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Phat
11-14-2023 8:17 PM


Re: Sam Harris: Letters to a Christian Nation
Double post - Bad Gateway problem.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Phat, posted 11-14-2023 8:17 PM Phat has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9580
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 6.8


Message 10 of 51 (913608)
11-22-2023 2:44 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Phat
11-21-2023 6:00 PM


Re: Sam Harris: Letters to a Christian Nation
Phat:
Answer me this, though. If there were an ultimatum, would you complain about the unfairness of it or would you accept the authority of reality?
I have no idea what you're talking about!
Have you not got passed the first page yet?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Phat, posted 11-21-2023 6:00 PM Phat has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9580
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 6.8


Message 18 of 51 (913616)
11-23-2023 2:36 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by Phat
11-22-2023 4:14 PM


Re: Sam Harris: Letters to a Christian Nation
Phat:
I would wager that many of you agree with Sam Harris's view on "all religions".
That's a safe bet.
quote:
I keep my beliefs despite honest criticism from the likes of Harris and others.
Of course you do!
quote:
Perhaps one way that I differ from you is that my belief is very important to me.
Given that atheists do not have beliefs in gods, that's another safe bet.
quote:
Jesus is very important to me. To many of you, He is but a character in a storybook written by humans.
If he even existed at all, he was a character in a storybook. If you want to find out the story of the real Jesus, I suggest you look to historians rather than pastors. Try Bart Ehrman as a starter. (He accepts a historical Jesus.)

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Phat, posted 11-22-2023 4:14 PM Phat has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9580
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 6.8


Message 29 of 51 (913637)
11-24-2023 4:48 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by Phat
11-24-2023 3:59 PM


Re: An UnChristian Rabbit Trail
Could be you're in the wrong job. Have you thought about being a prison warden?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Phat, posted 11-24-2023 3:59 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9580
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 6.8


Message 33 of 51 (913649)
11-26-2023 2:22 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by Theodoric
11-25-2023 9:50 PM


Re: Sam Harris: Letters to a Christian Nation
I've no idea about his politics (but it feels unlikely that he's right wing) but he's certainly no ass or islamophobe.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Theodoric, posted 11-25-2023 9:50 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by Theodoric, posted 11-27-2023 9:38 AM Tangle has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9580
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 6.8


(2)
Message 50 of 51 (913735)
12-02-2023 12:41 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by Phat
12-02-2023 12:12 PM


Re: Peanut Gallery Rabbit Trail
Phat:
Democracies have a problem with authoritarianism
Too fucking right we do, wtf are you thinking?
Name a single authoritarian state that's better than our worst democracy.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by Phat, posted 12-02-2023 12:12 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
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